174 replies to this topic

[Nick Makiaveli]

Blurry, on 07 January 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

so when you are playing with yourself who do you blame?
You were just cleaning it and it went off right?
You must love purchasing {Scrap} and not getting anything in return. But ask why the mechs are getting more expensive?and why soon there will be more forced $$ grabs?
Because you consistently tell people to leave. Only you will be left to play with.

Enjoy your island and yourself cause that is all this behaviour shows besides a total lack of respect.

What did you buy and not get anything in return for?

By more expensive, I assume you mean the Clan mechs. MC price is tied to the C-bill price and Clan mechs are going to be higher level tech (ie Omni-mechs etc) and thus cost more.

Forced money grabs? Seriously? Who forced me to buy the PP? No one. I bought Talon (Storm?) because I wanted the Shadowhawk. Sure that means I "had" to buy the Locusts,. but I could have waited and bought them with C-bills. I wound up at Guardian because I sold a Jager before i Elited it and wanted the option to Master the others, then I though hell for $20 more dollars i can have my first three Assault mechs.... so yea they really twisted the **** outta my arm on that one.

Lastly, I know you weren't talking to me, but yea I've told some people I can haz ur stuff? If they come across as whiny, self-absorbed douches, then good riddance. Many others I've tried to let them know not all of us have high KDRs and regularly get murdered, and pointed to resources etc. Some I've even encouraged to apply to the DHB if I thought they were good people having a rough day.

[Phlinger]

Nick Makiaveli, on 07 January 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

And how many total Founders were there? I see plenty when I play.

Point being, it's good to voice an opinion, and I fully support boycotting companies that don't deliver what you want.

But what's the point in running around New Player Help lambasting the game and discouraging new players. Scare enough off and there won't be any CW....

My presence in the New Player forums was in direct reply to you asking someone to prove it that Vet players were upset and leaving. I proved it. I also realize that PGI needs to lure in new suckers err players so they can feel better about all the promises they made and broke to the players who no longer want to wait for more broken promises. Just because you would prefer to run rampant in the new players forums spouting random 'facts' doesn't mean others with actual facts need to stay away, no matter how much you dislike the reality of it.

And to the one who said "Don't Re-install, my heart wasn't in the game"..... Seriously? Just because I don't yum up each weeks news and blindly blow smoke up the nearest developers butt, means I have no interest in the game? I love this game, and am pretty good at it, I just refuse to pay the company who made it another cent until they release the things that were offered over 18 months ago.

For a long time I was like most of you guys, blindly supporting the devs because I wanted a Mechwarrior game, I kept watching and waiting, then one day, i got tired of waiting, was about 3 weeks after Phoenix Packs were released. They had my money, for two packs, where were all the features that were offered for the first pack? Well, they were in limbo because PGI didn't want to fully commit until Microsoft gave them the extended license. Cute, right?

After Microsoft has seen the sales figures of this game, they won't hesitate to allow another company to make the next Mechwarrior game, PGI doesn't matter to them, just the income the IP provides.

[RG Notch]

I think new players should know what they are getting into. Many of them, being new, don't know that the same carrot has been dangled before people when they have their mitts out for more cash. CW was going to be 90 days after Open Beta, 6 months after launch, now six months from Clan packs. People need to know that PGI took money and said they were working on CW while they actually sat on their hands until MS renewed their license. PGI has continually over promised and under delivered.
Will they finally get their act together and actually deliver? Maybe, but there is little evidence they will. Maybe now that they have the license longer they may actually begin working on something that isn't instantly monetized. Just remember that if you give them money now, they have little incentive to deliver as they have been taking money and not delivering for some time now. If the money dries up they may be forced to actually deliver CW rather than keep their priorities on stuff they can sell.

[Thomas G Wolf]

AaronWolf, on 07 January 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

Well, for one, I ain't flamin' no one.

And two, not everyone is gone. Nor all the founders.

Don't know how you are getting all these facts. Since none of us have access to actual statistics. (Nor is rounding up info on the Forums the best margin to pull from on statistics either.)

I don't know if the game is going down in flames or not, but I certainly have a more positive outlook on things as is.

Piranha has done some bad stuff.

They failed a lot of their promises and timeframes.

Doesn't mean they are not trying. Nor that this game will actually die.

They have actually done quite a bit in the last year. So we can't bare down on them too hard.

I'm willing to give it time, and keep positive, and give good feedback. In hopes that PGI takes it and uses it to help make the game better.

Hope and faith is what we gotta have. And use our voices. Not our emotions.

First of all thank you for a mature and well put answer to my rant, and I mean that.

To answer your question about where I got my figures which between you me and the doorpost is a fair question, the answer is simple. I used to run one of the biggest fantasy shops in the country with over 20 tabletop tables, and a 4 by 5 meter 3D Battletech centerpiece table with the GoHex 3D terrain (excuse my spelling or better still IGNORE it). I was the Khan of Clan Wolf in one of the biggest TT Battletech communities here for a few years and therefore I have alot and I mean alot of contacts, and no one and I mean no one is still playing this game on a regular basis, and NOT one of them is spending any money what so ever anymore, and 95% of them were founders.

I still get e-mails from folks who have come to my conventions (the shop was big enough to house big cons) asking is it worth it to start MWO and they all get the same answer now, NO it is not, hell I have even gone so far as too mail those that I convinced to start the game and say how sorry I am that I told them to start. The straw that broke this camel`s back was the statement that I was not a dedicated fan of the game as I am not buying a Golden Mech. That literally was the final and last straw the living proof that PGI is not interested in the Core gamers which I am willing to bet was the majority of the Founders.

All that Russ had to do was to say my bad, very poor choice of words but no, he does not even see the blunder there. Like I said by itself the statement was nothing, but when you add up all the broken promises, the lies and the total indefference that they are showing towards their player base, well it just adds up. I still have all my untouched premium time from the packages, over 20k MCs but once my permium time that I bought at the black friday sale runs out I am gone and I do not think that I will be looking back because then I will have games that are really delivering up what they promise, TESO and WT anyone?

The only thing which would make me change my mind would be a full blown "I am sorry we F**ked up big time here is the game that we promised" message, but we all know that is never going to happen.

I reserve the copyright on all of my grammer and spelling mistakes!

[AaronWolf]

Eric Wulfen, on 08 January 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

First of all thank you for a mature and well put answer to my rant, and I mean that.

To answer your question about where I got my figures which between you me and the doorpost is a fair question, the answer is simple. I used to run one of the biggest fantasy shops in the country with over 20 tabletop tables, and a 4 by 5 meter 3D Battletech centerpiece table with the GoHex 3D terrain (excuse my spelling or better still IGNORE it). I was the Khan of Clan Wolf in one of the biggest TT Battletech communities here for a few years and therefore I have alot and I mean alot of contacts, and no one and I mean no one is still playing this game on a regular basis, and NOT one of them is spending any money what so ever anymore, and 95% of them were founders.

I still get e-mails from folks who have come to my conventions (the shop was big enough to house big cons) asking is it worth it to start MWO and they all get the same answer now, NO it is not, hell I have even gone so far as too mail those that I convinced to start the game and say how sorry I am that I told them to start. The straw that broke this camel`s back was the statement that I was not a dedicated fan of the game as I am not buying a Golden Mech. That literally was the final and last straw the living proof that PGI is not interested in the Core gamers which I am willing to bet was the majority of the Founders.

All that Russ had to do was to say my bad, very poor choice of words but no, he does not even see the blunder there. Like I said by itself the statement was nothing, but when you add up all the broken promises, the lies and the total indefference that they are showing towards their player base, well it just adds up. I still have all my untouched premium time from the packages, over 20k MCs but once my permium time that I bought at the black friday sale runs out I am gone and I do not think that I will be looking back because then I will have games that are really delivering up what they promise, TESO and WT anyone?

The only thing which would make me change my mind would be a full blown "I am sorry we F**ked up big time here is the game that we promised" message, but we all know that is never going to happen.

I reserve the copyright on all of my grammer and spelling mistakes!

To be honest, it is rather sad to hear that. Since you obviously were a very deeply involved individual with the community at large for the BT universe. And your frustration is not without due cause, it has been quite well earned in some respect by PGI.

Frankly though, I cannot let this game go. I have been with the MW community since MW2 in 95'. Helped MekTek run their MW4 servers and even helped with some of their upgrades to that game. (Such as adding Elementals/Gnome PS')

And when the servers were shut down there, I moved here basically after being sad for a long time.

I won't be buying anything until PGI comes through on their word, but I won't doomsay neither. I feel that because of failures within the system, it may be broken, and the head may have done bad-doesn't mean all the pieces within the clock are broken. Nor that the clock is completely broken in the first place.

All I can say is, take a long long break, come back in awhile-and maybe it will be what we all want in that time. Till then, I plan to continue slugging it out here.

Goodluck to you fellow Mechwarrior.

P.S. ALL GLORY TO THE EBONHEART PACT! *Nordic Warcry*

[Nick Makiaveli]

Ronyn, on 08 January 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

My presence in the New Player forums was in direct reply to you asking someone to prove it that Vet players were upset and leaving. I proved it. I also realize that PGI needs to lure in new suckers err players so they can feel better about all the promises they made and broke to the players who no longer want to wait for more broken promises. Just because you would prefer to run rampant in the new players forums spouting random 'facts' doesn't mean others with actual facts need to stay away, no matter how much you dislike the reality of it.

And to the one who said "Don't Re-install, my heart wasn't in the game"..... Seriously? Just because I don't yum up each weeks news and blindly blow smoke up the nearest developers butt, means I have no interest in the game? I love this game, and am pretty good at it, I just refuse to pay the company who made it another cent until they release the things that were offered over 18 months ago.

For a long time I was like most of you guys, blindly supporting the devs because I wanted a Mechwarrior game, I kept watching and waiting, then one day, i got tired of waiting, was about 3 weeks after Phoenix Packs were released. They had my money, for two packs, where were all the features that were offered for the first pack? Well, they were in limbo because PGI didn't want to fully commit until Microsoft gave them the extended license. Cute, right?

After Microsoft has seen the sales figures of this game, they won't hesitate to allow another company to make the next Mechwarrior game, PGI doesn't matter to them, just the income the IP provides.

Here's a concept, try gaining some maturity and discussing or debating an issue instead of flailing around tossing insults and showing off your sore gluteus maximus?

The problem with people like you is you automatically assume that every bad thing is a direct and intentional insult/injury to you. It never occurs to you that the devs could have made mistakes, ie completely fubar timelines, hosed up the media/community relations etc etc and still not be evil ********.

I don't know for sure, but they are either people doing the best they can or they are damn good con artists. Given the evidence I am going for the former.


One last detail that bugs me. If you are here because of something I said, how did you find out I said it?

[Alaskan Nobody]

Nick Makiaveli, on 08 January 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

I don't know for sure, but they are either people doing the best they can or they are damn good con artists. Given the evidence I am going for the former.

I'm gonna be quoting you on that a fair amount Nick.
Been trying (and failing) to get that thought out of my head and into (simple!) words:
You have succeeded where I have not.

o7

[Nick Makiaveli]

Shar Wolf, on 08 January 2014 - 05:34 PM, said:

I'm gonna be quoting you on that a fair amount Nick.
Been trying (and failing) to get that thought out of my head and into (simple!) words:
You have succeeded where I have not.

o7

Thanks It's been rattling around my skull for a while but every time I tried to say it it took 14 paragraphs

So I finally let my inner snark come out and have shot and that's what came out.....

[Alaskan Nobody]

Nick Makiaveli, on 08 January 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

So I finally let my inner snark come out and have shot and that's what came out.....

I would say to unleash it more: but that is sometimes one of those things that requires a certain amount of buildup to be most effecetive (kinda like a Guass Rifle? maybe?)

[RG Notch]

Nick Makiaveli, on 08 January 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

I don't know for sure, but they are either people doing the best they can or they are damn good con artists. Given the evidence I am going for the former.

Doesn't either answer to this question disturb you? Because obviously the con artist part is bad, but if they are trying their best and this is the results, well that might be worse. Con artists might change, but incompetents, particularly incompetents who don't know they are incompetents keep making the same blunders. If MWO's awful story isn't enough you might want to look into their previous games. Here's a hint MWO is probably their best effort.

[Nick Makiaveli]

RG Notch, on 08 January 2014 - 05:41 PM, said:

Doesn't either answer to this question disturb you? Because obviously the con artist part is bad, but if they are trying their best and this is the results, well that might be worse. Con artists might change, but incompetents, particularly incompetents who don't know they are incompetents keep making the same blunders. If MWO's awful story isn't enough you might want to look into their previous games. Here's a hint MWO is probably their best effort.

I see what you are saying but I don't believe they are {Surat}. If MWO is the best game they've put out, then doesn't that mean they are improving?

[Alaskan Nobody]

RG Notch, on 08 January 2014 - 05:41 PM, said:

Doesn't either answer to this question disturb you?

To add to what Nick said:
Considering that it better balanced than any of the other Mechwarrior titles, with just as much online gameplay as any of the released Mechwarrior titles (Never once saw a leaderboard or the like when I logged on that wasn't set up by the users - not the game).....

Not overly.

They are improving it, If ever so slowly, but I am patient
(waiting this long for another MW title has helped with that somewhat I am sure )

The few game modes get tiring after playing a lot, yes - but there are a lot of other games that I play as well.
The game gets old - you take a break - you come back later.
Just don't let the frustrations ruin the game for you - at that point, regardless of what PGI really is, the Trolls have won.

[RG Notch]

Nick Makiaveli, on 08 January 2014 - 05:58 PM, said:

I see what you are saying but I don't believe they are {Surat}. If MWO is the best game they've put out, then doesn't that mean they are improving?

Saying MWO is the best work they've done is damning them with faint praise. Have you seen the shovelware garbage they made previously? I get it. You cheer leader's don't have much to work with. Just because they've advanced from making $20 games for Wal Mart isn't evidence they are actually capable of making anything worthwhile. I will grant you this appears to be their best work, but again if this is their best work does that inspire you?

[iamunkle]

ZacharyJ, on 04 January 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

Oh thank you, I can get on with my day now that I know a stranger on the internet has informed me that he will be uninstalling a video game from his computer at 'some point today'.

lol.

he had his reasons,

whats your reason for being a prrick?

people like you are making the forums a very negative place.


just sayin..


if you got nothing good to say...

[Craig Steele]

I think a lot of posters here are not grasping the big picture.

F2P games have a large player attrition rate built into them, they assume people will leave in droves as they have little / zero commercial input into the game.

So its no surprise that the community has slice of mindset that is along the lines of "players are disposable, toughen up as I did, get on with it, you won't be missed" because thats how they think.

F2P models also work on the theory that they attract alot more people than they lose, and while they are here they spend a few dollars.

And thats the key point with this OP. The game has lost one player who might have spent $200 on MC this month, might have dropped another $200 next month because he was not engaged with the game. Whatever his budget is for entertainment will not be spent here on MWO. The new player experience is poor. The current gameplay is poor.

So at the moment, the game is unlikely to be engaging more people than it is losing. And he is the vocal minority........

How many others have just uninstalled / left / gone without saying a word?

And at some point if that trend continues, the population will not support games even for the die hard tough guys and they will move on too. This guy just reached his point earlier than some.

At the moment some people are enjoying the game as is, many are not. Some are hanging around, many seem to be leaving (if recent MM is any guide anyway).

But if the game is to have any tenure, more people need to be attracted to the game than are leaving it.

Saying "toughen up princess" serves exactly zero point in acheiving that.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Craig Steele, on 08 January 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

I think a lot of posters here are not grasping the big picture.

The big picture is not available to grasp unless you have all the information - which none of us has, unless you are coming out as a PGI worker.

The picture as we have it right here, is a person: claiming to be new, yet having enough experience to know that the game has nothing for him.

And that happens - with ANY game.

The fact that he was apparently either to stupid or ignorant to put his post into the appropriate area of the forum (in what way is his post "New Player Help"?) definitely counts against him - but is equally (in my opinion at least) balanced by the far above average amount of courtesy he showed in posting.

[Craig Steele]

The big picture is not limited to MWO.

We have a vocal minority (and yes kudo's for him for taking the time to express) saying the his experience is poor and before he has spent any money, he has gone.

Maybe he comes back, maybe he doesn't.

If his experience is the trend, the game will fail sooner rather than later, thats the model

I am saying that he is a vocal minority (how many posts on this forum are saying the game is great and I want to spend more money on it btw?) and those of us who have not reached the tipping point of leaving are not helping with "toughen up princess" comments.

I am highlighting that it doesn't help the core issue, it escalates it.

[Nick Makiaveli]

RG Notch, on 08 January 2014 - 06:06 PM, said:

Saying MWO is the best work they've done is damning them with faint praise. Have you seen the shovelware garbage they made previously? I get it. You cheer leader's don't have much to work with. Just because they've advanced from making $20 games for Wal Mart isn't evidence they are actually capable of making anything worthwhile. I will grant you this appears to be their best work, but again if this is their best work does that inspire you?

First off, no need for name calling. Second, you asked a question, I answered it. Don't turn that around and twist it into some ******** that it isn't.

Did they **** up? Yes. They came up with this wonderful idea, spent all their time getting the combat set up, then said Ok we got 6 months to knock out this CW......that's when reality bitchslapped them. It sounded really good on paper, then they realized they had to actually sort out the details and code it etc.

That said, it's gotten better. Is it my idea of perfect? Nope. But I don't own the company so my opinion counts for little.

Craig Steele, on 08 January 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

The big picture is not limited to MWO.

We have a vocal minority (and yes kudo's for him for taking the time to express) saying the his experience is poor and before he has spent any money, he has gone.

Maybe he comes back, maybe he doesn't.

If his experience is the trend, the game will fail sooner rather than later, thats the model

I am saying that he is a vocal minority (how many posts on this forum are saying the game is great and I want to spend more money on it btw?) and those of us who have not reached the tipping point of leaving are not helping with "toughen up princess" comments.

I am highlighting that it doesn't help the core issue, it escalates it.

I see what you are saying, but they also said the tutorial increased new player retention by at least one order of magnitude, possibly more. Which means they are getting new players, and at least some of them are staying.

People are also buying stuff. So it's entirely possible they have a functioning game on their hands.

Are you familiar with the term "diminishing returns"? It may very well be that they feel they would get better results with the Clan mechs and CW than they would with a better new player system.

CW will bring back tons of former players. So will Clan mechs. Some of them will stay. That money will fund improvements to the new player experience.


As to the toughen up princess comments, I am against the overly harsh ones that don't attempt to help people. Except in cases where the poster is obviously a whiny, little brat who's mad he can't use Mommy's CC to buy an OP mech. Or he's mad because he works for a fast food restaurant and can't afford Premium time and thus has to actually work for his C-bills.

I hang out here not because I learn a lot though I do learn from folks like Redshift and Koniving (happy now? I gave you top billing this time ). It's mostly because I like to help people, even if I am not a guru, and because we need new players or else this game will fold and I don't want that. Not until after I figure out who has to die over at Harmony Gold so I can get my ******* Warhammer!!!

[Mycrus]

Nick Makiaveli, on 08 January 2014 - 11:57 PM, said:

As to the toughen up princess comments, I am against the overly harsh ones that don't attempt to help people. Except in cases where the poster is obviously a whiny, little brat who's mad he can't use Mommy's CC to buy an OP mech. Or he's mad because he works for a fast food restaurant and can't afford Premium time and thus has to actually work for his cbills

Don't insult an honest living.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

Mycrus, on 09 January 2014 - 02:23 AM, said:

Don't insult an honest living.

Speaking as someone in a minimum-wage job myself, I took that more as having a go at the person behind the job. I don't buy Premium Time either - but then, I don't mind working for the in-game cash.

Has this thread not run out of steam yet?