424 replies to this topic

[Mister Blastman]

Butane9000, on 08 January 2014 - 06:38 AM, said:

Personally I believe it was their attempt to decouple it from PPCs similarly like the change to the Gauss Rifle. As the meta was becoming AC20 + 1 or 2 PPCs. Usually on a Highlander or Victor with jump sniping capability. Not sure how this will ultimately effect that meta though.

It won't change a thing.

People will use 2 PPCs + 2 AC5s or UAC 5s.

[Strum Wealh]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 January 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

hat peel P50 is a kids toy!
So an exception for every rule.

Though, the P50 & the SmartCar do add some new perspective on the size of the heads of the Commando and Spider...

[Almond Brown]

The Government, on 07 January 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

Today we have the .50 cal round. It travels at 4,000 ft/s (1,219 m/s)

Does it seem goofy to anyone else that in the future they can only manage rounds that go as fast as my cousin's 1963 VW minibus?

Not goofy at all really. Otherwise I want to start using Nuclear tipped Cruise Missile to fight the other Team with. That would;t be goofy either right, we have them in our military arsenals today right?

Leave it the "The Government" to test goofy...

[Joseph Mallan]

The Government, on 07 January 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

Today we have the .50 cal round. It travels at 4,000 ft/s (1,219 m/s)

Does it seem goofy to anyone else that in the future they can only manage rounds that go as fast as my cousin's 1963 VW minibus?

Today we have 203mm shells that travel at 850 M/S...

[Almond Brown]

3rdworld, on 07 January 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

I have looked at the XML files before. I was just hoping changing weapons wouldn't just be changing values in there. If he is saying they actually changed some and did mess with balance, then the delays on real weapon changes is incredibly disappointing.

Of course they changed the local copy of the data files. They are there to be compared against the real set your client uses on the server. Helps prevent hacking...

[TB Freelancer]

The changes to the AC20 were good, AC10 didn't slow down enough and the AC5s should have seen a substantial projectile speed reduction as well, I'm not so sure about the AC2 but probably.

The simple fact of the matter is that all projectile speeds are much to too fast in this game and makes the differences between projectile speeds near meaningless in most situations which is allowing all these mixed weapon alhpa shots to land on the same point every time.

With enough of these changes done intelligently, a mixed alpha directed at a moving target will be nearly impossible at range, while stationary or targets moving in a certain (slow/straight at you/apex of a jump) way will be easy to alhpa, while the player who fires each weapon type in rapid sequence adjusting for each velocity can land every shot in the same spot provided he has the skill.

If PGI takes this far enough, we'll be looking at changes that make mixed alphas only being useful in limited situations, all but impossible in others, weapons that require more skill to use with zero loss to their potential. Meanwhile a pilots ability to maintain current levels of performance is only limited by skill, not some enforced randomness being pushed by a highly vocal minority which effectively is a cone of fire.

Thankfully PGI seems to be on the right track here.....

....what's not to like.

[ReXspec]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 January 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

Today we have 203mm shells that travel at 850 M/S...

I truly wonder what type of propellant AC rounds would have to use to make this possible...

Firewood, perhaps? lol

[3rdworld]

ReXspec, on 08 January 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

I truly wonder what type of propellant AC rounds would have to use to make this possible...

Firewood, perhaps? lol

Gunpowder is lostech.

[Joseph Mallan]

Also... you are firing 280 lbs rounds at 10 per minute (the Mk 16 8" Naval Gun) or one every 6 seconds.

SO lets slow down the cyclic and boost back the velocity.

ReXspec, on 08 January 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

I truly wonder what type of propellant AC rounds would have to use to make this possible...

Firewood, perhaps? lol

That is our present day velocities boys! Mk16 Cannon has a 760 M/S

[kesuga7]

ReXspec, on 08 January 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

I truly wonder what type of propellant AC rounds would have to use to make this possible...

Firewood, perhaps? lol

well the change was made to make it harder to hit at further ranges (Which is how the weapon should work)

So sometimes gameplay balancee > over realism and sometimes Realism over gameplay

Id take the full battletech 'realism' (Infantry, Artillery Etc ) over mech vs mech gameplaythough

Edited by kesuga7, 08 January 2014 - 08:56 AM.

[ReXspec]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 January 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

Also... you are firing 280 lbs rounds at 10 per minute (the Mk 16 8" Naval Gun) or one every 6 seconds.

SO lets slow down the cyclic and boost back the velocity.


That is our present day velocities boys! Mk16 Cannon has a 760 M/S

THIS ^

[Joseph Mallan]

Strum Wealh, on 08 January 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

Though, the P50 & the SmartCar do add some new perspective on the size of the heads of the Commando and Spider...

Dude!

[ReXspec]

kesuga7, on 08 January 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

well the change was made to make it harder to hit at further ranges (Which is how the weapon should work)

So sometimes gameplay balancee > over realism and sometimes Realism over gameplay

I've said it before, but I don't mind saying it again.

The primary issue is toning down the AC-20's (along with multiple other weapon systems) pinpoint damage. A simple way to do that is decrease weapon rates of fire to TT standards, increase armor values up to TT standards, tweak round velocities so they are realistic, remove ghost heat and shorten burst times of lasers.

That would effectively remove most of the balancing problems PGI are experiencing with MWO. Not to mention it would add longevity to matches and 'mechs alike.

Edited by ReXspec, 08 January 2014 - 09:01 AM.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 January 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

Today we have 203mm shells that travel at 850 M/S...

today you will use nuke instead of mech...so I wanna nuke other team right at the start of match and win

[ReXspec]

JudgeDeathCZ, on 08 January 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

today you will use nuke instead of mech...so I wanna nuke other team right at the start of match and win

That is the Word of Blakes way of doing things, actually. lol

[Almond Brown]

KharnZor, on 07 January 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

Sandpit. Shhh.
To put my post into proper english it would be worded as this: People are failing to understand PGI's thinking behind these changes and would like to know why.
Don't tell people not to do things that you yourself are often guilty of.

And if these people "really" want to know the "why" of it all, then get a job at PGI. What most fail to grasp is that the Dev do not need to explain "every" GD thing they do to the Community.

Especially this Community. The one that spends more time and energy tearing down the game, the Company building it and the Dev's on a personal level, than actually helping.

So shhh. It is just a game. Don't like it, then do yourself, and all of us, a favor, and move on.

P.S. And yes we know that you all care so much it is like beating a loved ones because you just love them so much. ;(

[Roland]

Voivode, on 08 January 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

MW4 had respawn

MW4 also had NR.

We played hour long NR matches in league play.

[kesuga7]

ReXspec, on 08 January 2014 - 08:58 AM, said:

I've said it before, but I don't mind saying it again.

The primary issue is toning down the AC-20's (along with multiple other weapon systems) pinpoint damage. A simple way to do that is decrease weapon rates of fire to TT standards, increase armor values up to TT standards, tweak round velocities so they are realistic, remove ghost heat and shorten burst times of lasers.

Hmm while i agree on some points i would prefer a 'burst fire' ac 20 (with less range then a ac 5? ) to tone down the pinpoint damage
Laser duration and armor values would be nice however just dont tone laser duration down too much and yea MECHS die too fast as it is , so more armor would be nice


but if you increased ballistic velocity that would make it easier to be pinpoint at much larger ranges (Or Turn it into AC sniping meta)
Where only the slower travel time ppc (unless that got a buff too) could compete where lasers and missles are going to have much harder time fighting these Superior range Ballistics with close range power

While allot of ghost heat doesn't make sense 3 ppc and gauss would return and ghost heat doesn't effect the meta combo of energy /ppc weapons paired with ballistics

[wanderer]

ReXspec, on 08 January 2014 - 06:23 AM, said:

I ammended that post, good sir. :I



I'm sorely confused... if you are referring to the AC model, we can assume that PGI are using the canon "single-shot" cannons.

Autocannons, canonically were -never- single shot weapons.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Autocannon

"Autocannon in a class vary by manufacturer and model. With the fluffed number of shells and caliber being specified, no Autocannon has been specified to be one shell fired for each "round" or burst of fire."

Quote

I thought the burst-firing AC's were strictly relegated to rotary AC's and UAC's?

UAC's and rotaries fire at even higher numbers of shells, delivering them at higher speed and in larger numbers. UAC's represent "pushing the envelope" for single-barrel guns (thus the jams), while rotaries use the refinements in building AC's to build something that delivers up to 6x the burst-fire rate of a standard AC- but even a standard AC is firing a burst of shells, albeit in some cases as small as a 3-round one.

[ReXspec]

kesuga7, on 08 January 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

Hmm while i agree on some points i would prefer a 'burst fire' ac 20 (with less range then a ac 5? ) to tone down the pinpoint damage
Laser duration and armor values would be nice however just dont tone laser duration down too much and yea MECHS die too fast as it is , so more armor would be nice


but if you increased ballistic velocity that would make it easier to be pinpoint at much larger ranges (Or Turn it into AC sniping meta)
Where only the slower travel time ppc (unless that got a buff too) could compete where lasers and missles are going to have much harder time fighting these Superior range Ballistics with close range power

While allot of ghost heat doesn't make sense 3 ppc and gauss would return and ghost heat doesn't effect the meta combo of energy /ppc weapons paired with ballistics

If you buffed the PPCs projectiles to where they're supposed to be as well and removed ghost heat, they would easily be on par with ballistics.

Basically the mentality of my proposal is to buff everything to a balanced level, and make everything consistent with TT. Another thing that would help as well is incorporating more or less slot numbers based on the type of mech, and incorporating design quirks in mechs. Like on the TT, certain mechs excelled in certain aspects of mech combat (such as reduced lock times, faster heat dispersion, etc.) but were poor in others (such as low turn speed, low heat-dispersion, etc.). If you incorporated these elements, we would probably have an extremely balanced mechwarrior game--and one that is fun to boot.