80 replies to this topic

[Trauglodyte]

Sandpit, on 08 January 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

No burts fire, reduce range, add in divergence when firing multiple ballistics at the same time instead of chain firing them.
*drops mic* deuces yo!

I'm down with reduced extreme range, if for no other reason than one AC shouldn't do more damage than the next smaller AC at its effective range. A recoil impact would be cool and a lot of people have asked for that. Honestly, though, I'd be happy with just a seperate reticle for each arm, putting in movement/heat penalties, and removing the Auto Arm Lock button to combat convergence. I really don't mind the AC20 or multiples of AC20s/Gauss or even multiple PPCs plus multiple ACs. It just bothers me, and everyone else for that matter, that you can be damaged to the extreme or hot to the extreme all while moving full speed while shooting the wings off of a fly. Would love to see the world's spec ops snipers putting a sniper round dead center on a target while on the back of a jeep doing 100+ mph over non-paved terrain while suffering from a head wound or heat exhaustion. Doing it off of a pitching boat when the target is on a pitching boat or even from a helicopter is pretty boss but the former example is pretty nasty.

Btw, and this is going on fluff text from Sarna which is mostly taken from fluff texts in source books from BT, but we have the following:

Quote

An Autocannon is a type of rapid-firing, auto-loading direct-fire ballistic weapon, firing HEAP (High-Explosive Armor-Piercing) or kinetic rounds at targets in bursts. It is, basically, a giant "machine gun" that fires predominantly cased explosive shells though models firing saboted high velocity kinetic energy penetrators or caseless ordnance do exist. Among the earliest tank/BattleMech scale weaponry produced, autocannons produce far less heat than energy weapons, but are considerably bulkier and are dependent upon limited stores of ammunition.

Autocannons range in caliber from 30mm up to 203mm and are loosely grouped according to their damage versus armor.^[1] The exact same caliber of shell fired in a 100 shot burst to do 20 damage will have a shorter effective range than when fired in a 10 shot burst to do 2 damage due to recoil and other factors.

Followed by:

Quote

The Autocannon is a direct-fire ballistic weapon, firing HEAP (High-Explosive Armor-Piercing) rounds at targets either singly or in bursts.
Different manufacturers and models of autocannons have different calibers (25mm-203mm) and rates of fire. Due to this, autocannons are grouped into generic "classes" of autocannons with common damage ratings.

An example of the rating system: the Crusher Super Heavy Cannon is a 150mm weapon firing ten shells per "shot", while the Chemjet Gun is a 185mm weapon firing much slower, but causing higher damage. Despite their differences, both are classified as Autocannon/20s due to their damage output.

Not saying that we need to do anything like this for ACs. But, when the Devs spoke about CW, they made mention more than a few times about how weapons of the same type, like the Medium Laser, would behave differently and differing characteristics based on the manufacturer. I doubt that they'd go to massive extremes but they could change the AC5, as an example, to be a short round burst for one manufacturer or a single round for another. It makes you wonder what they've got up their collective sleeves.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 08 January 2014 - 12:04 PM.

[Varent]

Trauglodyte, on 08 January 2014 - 11:59 AM, said:

I'm down with reduced extreme range, if for no other reason than one AC shouldn't do more damage than the next smaller AC at its effective range. A recoil impact would be cool and a lot of people have asked for that. Honestly, though, I'd be happy with just a seperate reticle for each arm, putting in movement/heat penalties, and removing the Auto Arm Lock button to combat convergence. I really don't mind the AC20 or multiples of AC20s/Gauss or even multiple PPCs plus multiple ACs. It just bothers me, and everyone else for that matter, that you can be damaged to the extreme or hot to the extreme all while moving full speed while shooting the wings off of a fly. Would love to see the world's spec ops snipers putting a sniper round dead center on a target while on the back of a jeep doing 100+ mph over non-paved terrain while suffering from a head wound or heat exhaustion. Doing it off of a pitching boat when the target is on a pitching boat or even from a helicopter is pretty boss but the former example is pretty nasty.

Interesting story...

http://www.cnn.com/2...omalia.pirates/

Im not sure how many know of the actual tactics used but I can try to paint a picture for you.

One boat moving on turbulent sea sliding up and down. Another boat moving on turbulent tea sliding up around. Sniper rifle through a port hole hitting a moving target on one boat standing in close proximity to a hostage. Three Pirates taken out at roughly the same time in convergence as well.

This was considered to be a fairly standard operation by the Navy Seals.

c.c

But ya of course its hard for modern day snipers to make such difficult shots...

#HumansAreAwesome.

[Thorqemada]

What happens is that LRMs are back in some matches and the Bullheads stubornly ignore it.

Some People also managed to make their LRM pretty CT-Loving and core a Mech even on indirect fire but that is not that much luckily.

[AlmightyAeng]

What's a bullhead? Also...LRM's never left, as far as I know? I've seen them in lots of matches for the last few months...you usually get 1 or 2 guys with them. Sometimes several.

They're still not OP though? I've seen them used really, REALLY effectively...but I've seen nearly EVERY weapon used effectively. Nerfs...not required.

[Trauglodyte]

Not sure where you're going with that other than hoping that you're agreeing with me that it was awesome. Firing a round off a helicopter used to be the hardest shot possible because of the down thrust's impact on the round as it leaves the barrel. I'd say that salty air on two different ships is way harder than that. Have to give those boys the credit that they're due.

On the flip side, this is a video game and I don't feel (opinion here) that we should be allowed to have that kind of accuracy with those kinds of environmental impacts when most people in this game would end up shooting themselves in the foot given a real firearm.

[Varent]

Trauglodyte, on 08 January 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

Not sure where you're going with that other than hoping that you're agreeing with me that it was awesome. Firing a round off a helicopter used to be the hardest shot possible because of the down thrust's impact on the round as it leaves the barrel. I'd say that salty air on two different ships is way harder than that. Have to give those boys the credit that they're due.

On the flip side, this is a video game and I don't feel (opinion here) that we should be allowed to have that kind of accuracy with those kinds of environmental impacts when most people in this game would end up shooting themselves in the foot given a real firearm.

can only speak for myself... but I do have alot of training.

That put aside... yes most gamers would have no idea what they are doing. But im also pretty sure most people that play dont login in the mindset of being most gamers but instead login in the mindset of being a skilled mechwarrior.

I was going on the route of alot of those type of crazy shots are very possible by skilled and practiced snipers. Wich if you put time and effort into something, you should have a reward in this game. Personally I feel every playstyle deserves its due. I do think jump sniping is a little over played but I also feel that could be changed by altering how jump jets work.

[Trauglodyte]

I'm def with you on the JJ thing, Varent. Its funny to me that all mechs carry 4s worth of fuel and that, no matter how many JJs are equipped, you still burn for 4s and recharge in 4s. But, each additional JJ allows you to jump higher and further without burning through fuel faster.

Like I said, I'm actually ok with ACs being what they are. I just don't like how easy everything is to use. The games tactical and "thinking" portion should be about when to use things and having to weigh the tradeoffs between opportunity and cost. Right now, I don't see that existing in this game.

[Ngamok]

Also, it's nerf not nurf. Nurf is an old gaming guild.

[Varent]

Trauglodyte, on 08 January 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

I'm def with you on the JJ thing, Varent. Its funny to me that all mechs carry 4s worth of fuel and that, no matter how many JJs are equipped, you still burn for 4s and recharge in 4s. But, each additional JJ allows you to jump higher and further without burning through fuel faster.

Like I said, I'm actually ok with ACs being what they are. I just don't like how easy everything is to use. The games tactical and "thinking" portion should be about when to use things and having to weigh the tradeoffs between opportunity and cost. Right now, I don't see that existing in this game.

there is alot they could do to change jump jets that would make this game more interesting. Make the ones used by heavies and assaults weight more, use up more slots or perhaps just due to the sheer weight of what they are pushing upwards allow more of a shake and make it harder to stay on target. Could also make them shake on the way down too or perhaps shake on the way down unless they invest in a certain number of jump jets wich could cut down on the amount of ammo they can take or what weapons they could field. It would change the meta in a very positive direction.

[Coralld]

Trauglodyte, on 08 January 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

I agree with everything that you're saying but you do realize that is a duckling and not a chick, right?

Yes but that Duckling is absolutely adorable, just like the QQers crying over nothing.

Sandpit, on 08 January 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

I could post a few graphs, complex mathematical equations, start a poll, and start 30 threads contradicting that but instead I'll jsut say you're not competitive enough as a chicken to worry about

You have picked my curiosity.

Ghost Badger, on 08 January 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

Someone hit this man with a duckling.

Edited by Coralld, 08 January 2014 - 01:00 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

We're diverging a bit but who cares? LRM whines are silly

I was testing JJs the other day on the older stock mechs because I couldn't remember how JJs actually worked. I run a few mechs that have them but figured it would be easier with the stockies. Anyway, I hop in the Spider C thinking that it had a lot of JJs but was disappointed that it only had 2 of them. Regardless, I timed my way up and then timed my recharge. Did that once and I looked at the paper doll to see my legs were yellow. I repeated the exercise for the BJ C and the Highlander C (stupid Dragon C screwed up everything but I switched to my actual 3D and continued my testing) and yet the paper dolls remained unchnaged. We got to talking about how Lights and the Cicada get screwed on the falling damage calculations and rough terrain thanks to the impact of the knock down rules. But, beside the fact that we are able to do too much with JJs and the overall power they give the idiocy that is jump sniping, it still boggles my mind that only one class of JJ user gets hosed when using their equipment to the max because of bad and disregarded coding.

[Kilrein]

Skyfaller, on 07 January 2014 - 09:36 PM, said:

I put dual AC20 and a PPC into a Jager DD.

Its so insanely OP its ridiculous. There's zero difficulty or skill required to cripple or flat out take out mechs.

OP? What is OP about a mech that has all of the following limitations? Sure Dual AC/20+PPC can shred face, if you happen to get someone to close with you but once I get a read on that loadout, I'm taking your legs off as you have to have trimmed several tons of armor from somewhere.

1) 200XL motor - all the disadvantages of an XL without the speed.
2) Runs very warm/hot - overheat in two alpha strikes. Low threshold from only 10 DHS and slow dissipation rate so you heat up fast, cool off slow, can't evade and can't run and hide.
3) Limited ammo endurance - 5 tons at 384 armor points (assuming from legs leaving them at 41 of 60), gain a ton for every 32 points dropped.
4) And due to the 200 motor, reduced turn/torso twist speeds.

That's not OP. That's an extreme corner case build with zero long term viability.

[Kilrein]

Drunk Canuck, on 08 January 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

It's funny, people complaining about LRM's being OP and others saying they are useless, especially comp players. My team runs them and we have beaten better teams then ours with them. It's all about skill and using them effectively as well as getting targets on your enemy. If you are terrible at using them effectively, they suck, if you know how to use them and can get your shots off correctly, they are painfully annoying.

After over 6000 matches, I know this - LRMs and I do not get along, if I'm trying to use them (over 500 matches in LRM centric builds) or if I'm on the receiving end of them from multiple sources. LRM's strength are in coordinated massed fire. One LRM unit is just a minor annoyance. Two or three on the other team operating independently, slightly more so. 2-3 LRM mechs operating together? Can control an enemy team's options and then add in supporting mechs like spotters and TAGers? Then LRMs can be very effective. Are they going to rack up massive kill totals? Nope. Are they going to deny the opposing team lines of advance or cover the advance of thier team? Oh yeah and done right, can lead a team to victory much more than not.

But me+LRMs = total suckage

[Alex Warden]

ReXspec, on 08 January 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

Sad part is, the AC-20 was never supposed to have range. lol

i´ve been saying this for ages now...oh well, projectile speed sure does SOMEthing...but tbh, just giving it 2X max range would be all the ac20 ever needed, otherwise it always was perfect...

[Victor Morson]

FupDup, on 07 January 2014 - 05:34 PM, said:

I'm still seeing direct fire pinpoint weapons all over the place.

That's because it's AC/5 / UAC/5 Warrior now, not missile warrior. OP got it wrong.

Mcgral18, on 07 January 2014 - 07:25 PM, said:

Perhaps if there was a real nerf, you'd see them run something else, but changing the travel speed didn't really affect much.

People badly underestimate how important velocity is. Changing velocity just a little bit can result in wildly different accuracy levels. It is why guns like the Gauss, when you shoot it at something, always hits; it's why reducing the velocity on the PPC was a huge factor in putting it back in line, too.

Velocity is a huge deal and those nerfs may appear to be virtually undetectable to you looking at the projectile, but it means that your shots that you think hit... probably aren't going to register now.

Case in point: What they actually needed to do was to buff the SRM velocity to improve the hit detection issues.

Edited by Victor Morson, 08 January 2014 - 02:01 PM.

[Sandpit]

Increase heat on JJs that would mitigate their use alongside weapon firing a LOT

[Trauglodyte]

Sandpit, on 08 January 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

Increase heat on JJs that would mitigate their use alongside weapon firing a LOT

Heat is a much needed addition. When you use them, you heat immediatly jumps by a set percentage but no further. They should act like Flamers.

[Sandpit]

Trauglodyte, on 08 January 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

Heat is a much needed addition. When you use them, you heat immediatly jumps by a set percentage but no further. They should act like Flamers.

It should just scale up like any other heat generation. The longer you hold it the more it goes up.

[Lightfoot]

I want the Guass Rifle restored, just increase the recharge to 5-6 seconds like earlier MechWarrior games.

The biggest sin in MechWarrior is turning it into Quake and turning the Gauss Rifle into a first person shooter BFG gun is doing exactly that. You have to make the weapons into versions that would be on a Mech and not in Duke Nukem's back pocket. MechWarrior is a sci-fi simulation of giant robots so everything that you bring to it has to enable that immersion and suspension of disbelief. Otherwise it just becomes QuakeWarrior.

[Cimarb]

If you seriously think LRMs are overpowered, stay here. For all of the sane people in this thread, go here to discuss the weapons that actually need balancing:

Cimarb, on 08 January 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

We already have several lengthy discussions going on about this. Quit being lazy and making new threads: http://mwomercs.com/...w-with-weapons/ is a good one to join, for instance

[redacted]

Edited by miSs, 08 January 2014 - 07:20 PM.
off topic