82 replies to this topic

[Josef Nader]

The weight class of mech does not dictate its role. Sure, there are scouts (Locust, Spider) that would struggle to bring down the big boys. Then there are strikers (Jenner's, Commandos) that are designed to be fast, mobile, heavy hitters. A Jenner or Commando in TT is actually quite dangerous to an assault. 10 SRMs or 4 Medium lasers to the rear armor is more than enough to punch through and do some real damage. Flanking and speed tanking work just as well in TT as they do in MWO.

Besides, light mechs being completely irrelevant to assaults was one of the dumbest, least fun parts of MW4. I'm thrilled lights are relevant now.

tl;dr this thread. Paper is OP. Scissors are fine. Signed, Rock.

Edited by Josef Nader, 18 January 2014 - 10:46 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Light mech DPS is pretty low

Not really. They have the speed and agility to consistently do backshots and a backshot is worth five times more than a frontshot. I would say light mech DPS is potentially higher than anything else if played correctly.

The problem is the scoring system doesnt reward you more for getting a backshot. Damage scoring really should be weighted based on the location you did damage to... shooting someone in the back should be worth way more than shooting them in the front.

Edited by Khobai, 18 January 2014 - 10:32 AM.

[stjobe]

Vox Scorpus, on 18 January 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

Stjobe - I'm not sure what rules TT you were using

2nd edition, TRO:3025 mostly. No Clans in my BTU.

Vox Scorpus, on 18 January 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

but when a light mech jumps/runs to reach the six of a larger mech it's heat level goes pretty high.

Running is a flat 2 heat no matter the hexes. Granted, jumping is 1 heat/hex (minimum 3 heat), but most TRO:3025 'mechs couldn't jump more than 6 hexes anyway.

Vox Scorpus, on 18 January 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

Does it shoot everything and risk retaining heat until next round? Of course it does - it needs to do the maximum damage it can. This will cause heat problems in the following rounds.

You shoot enough to get to 4 residual heat; 5 is needed for any heat penalties. You do NOT need to do "the maximum damage", death by a thousand cuts is a very viable tactic in this scenario.

Vox Scorpus, on 18 January 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

When it becomes the assaults turn it will rotate in place (3 MV points or 2 and a twist) then the light is in it's fwd firing arc.

Did you miss the part about winning/losing initiative? If you lose initiative, when it becomes the assault's turn he'll have a to-hit roll that's too high to take a shot, and if you win initiative you move AFTER the assault has moved. The best it can do is torso-twist to bring one arm to bear.

Vox Scorpus, on 18 January 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

You see MWO is missing a huge component of TT that we used a lot. Physical attacks. If the light is close enough - you reach out and bash it in the legs or the arms etc. Sometimes this is actually more effective than shooting. Kick a light in the legs with an assault and you'll do a lot of damage.

No argument there, physical attacks were a lot of fun, and seriously effective. But you had to hit with them as well, and a smart played light was still hell to hit.

Vox Scorpus, on 18 January 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

You cannot tell me that light mechs play the same as TT.

Good, because I'm not telling you that. I'm telling you that your statement "never in all the years of playing TT did a light beat a heavy or assault" is silly and wrong. Lights beat heavies and assaults regularly in TT, by employing the tactics I outlined above.

Vox Scorpus, on 18 January 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

They are quite a bit stronger in MWO and if in a wolf pack they can dominate the battlefield in a way not possible before. I'm not saying that's a bad thing - I run a jenner and a spider myself.

So many people complain about Light wolfpacks but think it's the most natural thing ever when they get swamped by four heavies/assaults - outnumbered is outnumbered, the weight of the ones firing at you from four angles doesn't really matter. When you're in a 4:1 situation you're going to lose, no matter what's outnumbering you.

Vox Scorpus, on 18 January 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

The post about torso twist speeds keeping up with fast running lights isn't totally accurate. The atlas wasn't moving at the time of tracking the light.

That's the thing, isn't it - it doesn't have to. Just by turning in place it can track the light, torso twisting isn't even needed. Add torso twisting and Pilot Skills (efficiencies) and it's all but impossible to stay on the six of an assault that has even a modicum of skill.

Vox Scorpus, on 18 January 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

In this game movement isn't an option - it's a lifesaver. A light mech could have several passes against an assault before it can even get the light into it's crosshairs. This is rare in TT. That is my point and it changes the game balance a bit.

And I disagree with your point. In TT a light 'mech could use its speed and maneuverability to dictate the terms of the engagement just like in MWO.

The reason a light can make several passes against an assault in MWO before the assault gets its crosshairs on it is because in MWO there's a player looking out from inside the assault's cockpit, whereas in TT there's a player looking down from above the battlefield, knowing each 'mechs position at a glance, doing threat assessment from that vantage point.

I play a lot of Lights in TT, and I play a lot of Lights in MWO. They are in some ways more potent in MWO, yes, but I ascribe that to the PvP nature of MWO - each unit needs to be roughly as viable as any other, or there's simply no point having it in a game where each player gets just one unit.

If assaults were the auto-win some assault-only players seem to want, we could just scrap any 'mechs below 100 tons because there would be no use fielding them.

Skill, not tonnage, should decide the outcome of a fight.

Edited by stjobe, 19 January 2014 - 03:48 AM.