94 replies to this topic

[zztophat]

K-town... it calls to me...

[5th Fedcom Rat]

RickySpanish, on 12 January 2014 - 01:44 AM, said:

Watchoo been smoking OP? Streaks aren't broken in the least. Who cares if they lock on and do more damage than regular missiles when the location they home in on is random? The best you can do is hope to hit the largest component the enemy is currently presenting toward you. Only lights should fear streaks, since the close proximity of their components and lack of armour means that even spraying all your damage over them is enough to take them down fast... But then again, what self respecting light engages a streak boat?

See, this is another silly fallacy that good players have been trying to dispel for a year now, but it continues to shamble around like a zombie.

The notion that:
1) Streaks should auto-kill lights on sight
2) That lights MUST run away from streak carrying mechs (nowdays 3/4 of the mechs on the field) or deservedly face destruction at the hands of the aimbot

I believe that every mech should be able to beat every other mech in a 1 vs 1 contest and the outcome should be decided by player skill, not weapon loadout. That's one of the original selling points of this revision of Mechwarrior, that lights would be combat competitive, including close combat. Streaks break that contract. Auto-hit no skill weapons that render an entire class of mechs incredibly vulnerable have no place in this game. Where is the super laser light mechs get which destroy heavier mechs in a few seconds? It's only fair that they get that sort of thing too.

I can see why good players like PeefSmash long ago left this silly forum.They tried to beat that point into people's brains for months but it just bounced off the fog of light mech hate that has taken over here, and the game in general.

[OneEyed Jack]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 13 January 2014 - 12:54 AM, said:

BTW, you're again putting words in my mouth... never said streaks were the ONLY reason Shadowhawk is so powerful. Just the most immediate one. I have said repeatedly in my replies you never read, or are unable to understand due to stunted reading comprehension skills, that the Shadowhawk can mount all weapon types effectively. The Streak cheese is just its most enduring charm, and why the SHD-2D2 is far and away the most common variants encountered on the field, and indeed one of the most common mechs in the entire game right now. Do you deny that? I'd like to see you fall flat on your face trying to. [Redacted]

What color is the sky in the fantasy world you live in?

Tell you what. When you work your way up out of the Steering Wheel Underhive, we'll talk.

(Hint: When you get there, Steak Hawks won't be "far and away the most common variants encountered on the field.")

Edited by Black Templar, 13 January 2014 - 04:17 AM.
Quoted [Redacted] content

[Black Templar]

Everybody calm down

[Febrosian R Gillingham]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 13 January 2014 - 01:29 AM, said:

See, this is another silly fallacy that good players have been trying to dispel for a year now, but it continues to shamble around like a zombie.

The notion that:
1) Streaks should auto-kill lights on sight
2) That lights MUST run away from streak carrying mechs (nowdays 3/4 of the mechs on the field) or deservedly face destruction at the hands of the aimbot

I believe that every mech should be able to beat every other mech in a 1 vs 1 contest and the outcome should be decided by player skill, not weapon loadout. That's one of the original selling points of this revision of Mechwarrior, that lights would be combat competitive, including close combat. Streaks break that contract. Auto-hit no skill weapons that render an entire class of mechs incredibly vulnerable have no place in this game. Where is the super laser light mechs get which destroy heavier mechs in a few seconds? It's only fair that they get that sort of thing too.

I can see why good players like PeefSmash long ago left this silly forum.They tried to beat that point into people's brains for months but it just bounced off the fog of light mech hate that has taken over here, and the game in general.

Streaks SHOULD require some skill to use, but a decent light has no problems dealing with a streak boat. Just kite them from outside of 270m and they won't even get a shot on you. Throw AMS on your light and now you can even play a little sloppy and still win. Calling a streakboat "cheese" is ridiculous, and streak Shadowhawks are absolutely not the most common SHDs in the game. They are literally only good at denying areas to lights and killing trapped or bad lights.

5th Fedcom Rat, on 13 January 2014 - 12:54 AM, said:

Griffin has obvious limitations you're apparently too dense to understand... like NO BALLISTIC SLOTS and ALL ITS WEAPONS ON ONE SIDE.

About this... The most common competitive build for a SHD is a 2D2 with an ac20 and a ppc (solid build, but far from OP especially after the ac20 projectile speed nerf). The entire point of that mech is to have all of the weapons on one side so that you get a shield torso/arm, exactly like Highlanders. Ballistics on a streak SHD cost a lot tonnage-wise and force you to run a smaller XL engine, making it worse at hunting lights. So if your concern is streak builds, ballistics and lopsided hardpoints are not a big deal at all, and all of the 55 ton mechs can make effective streakboats.

Quote

I have said repeatedly in my replies you never read, or are unable to understand due to stunted reading comprehension skills, that the Shadowhawk can mount all weapon types effectively.

This is irrelevant to game balance. The mech can only run one build at a time, so being able to run 01958 builds does not matter. As long as those builds aren't wildly OP, they should not be nerfed. And streakboats absolutely do not qualify as wildly OP.

[Effectz]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 13 January 2014 - 12:54 AM, said:

Griffin has obvious limitations you're apparently too dense to understand... and ALL ITS WEAPONS ON ONE SIDE.

Not a limitation that's a bonus.You have a whole side to tank damage.

Edited by Effectz, 13 January 2014 - 07:04 AM.

[ImperialKnight]

The Shadowhawk is not OP. It just outclassed most of the other mediums. It is a VERY good medium mech but a medium mech nonetheless. There is a difference.

In terms of balance, the SHD is HUGE compared to say a Kintaro or Treb. And most of its build rely on XL engines, which means easy side torso kills.

[Ngamok]

Like I said earlier, the Wolverine is just as durable as the Shadowhawk. Same weapon loadouts on the 6R were the others don't have ballistics. The 6K can put a 375 in it and go 120+ with speed tweak but it's only 5E and 1M.

[Gyrok]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 09 January 2014 - 10:09 PM, said:

Some facts to consider:

-People whined about my formerly favourite mech the Catapult K2 so the devs neutered its torso twist and nerfed is two useful builds (dual ac/20 and dual gauss)
-People whined about the Catapult A1 so the devs nerfed it so many times (massively reduced twist, SRM ghost heat, giant arm hitboxes) such that it's now one of the worst mechs in the game
-People whined about Hunchbacks so the devs came up with the engine cap limit (not something I'm opposed to, but the point still stands) and later made the 9 ML hunchback suffer from ghost heat
-People whined about my Ravens so the devs screwed with their hitboxes and made the non-3L variants which I used to love absolutely useless
-People whined about Spiders so the devs mucked with them recently too (jury's still out on the effect)
-People whined about ECM so the devs nerfed the acceleration speed on the only good Cicada, the 3M. Formerly one of my favourite mechs, now pretty useless

So my question is, why is the newest cheese machine the Shadowhawk being allowed to run rampant as a complete package that usually scores near the top of every match? It is fast, has jump jets, very good (broken?) hit boxes and is able to carry every combo of weapons know to man.

Where are its balance nerfs in the sake of fairness?

Now I'm sure one of the first comments will be: "PGI should buff the other mechs, not nerf the ones that work". Fine. Let's start by un-nerfing all my old mechs above. I had the sense not to hand any more money over to PGI for Project Phoenix so I'd like to see my old stable of mechs regain their usefulness.

A similar comment will be: "But mediums need love!" Well the Shadowhawk is only 5 tons short of a heavy - it bearly even classifies as a medium. The Dragon and Quickdraw surely need a lot more love than the heavy mediums we've been getting. Where was people's concern for mediums when the Cicada 3M was nerfed?

For further proof of Shadowhawk superiority, just look at the new hero Hunchback which is completley outclassed by the Shadowhawk in every way save profile size (not much of a factor when jump jets allow the SH to continuously mess with hit detection, hence its legendary survivability).

Deep down everyone knows this mech is at least partly OP. It's why we frequently see premades running packs of 4 of them, especially in Conquest.

.

First, lights are still OP even post nerf bat. Lights should outright be TERRIFIED of heavy mechs, they should flee screaming like a little girl in the presence of assault mechs. That is canon BT, spiders, etc hunt tanks and infantry, 100 ton mechs pick them up and crush them in their fist.

Second, the shadow hawk is versatile and performs roles well. It is a near perfect combinations of just enough mobility and armor to be a good skirmisher, and carries varied load outs.

Third, ghost heat didn't just nerf hunchbacks, and engine caps didn't just hurt them either.

Fourth, no K2 in history of BT/MW could ever carry AC40 or double Gauss, so stop complaining and be happy with your inner sphere omnimech. So it's not OP anymore in your eyes, it still far exceeds canon capabilities so I have no sympathy.

Fifth, the cicada is a heavy light, it barely qualifies as a medium.

Edited by Gyrok, 13 January 2014 - 09:14 AM.

[Navy Sixes]

FupDup, on 10 January 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

Buff the other mediums until they can compete with the Shaq Hawk, and then we will reach enlightenment.

At least loosen the engine cap on the Blackjack. I just started working them. Lots of potential for the little guy; a little more speed would go a long way toward making it more viable.

[LowSubmarino]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 09 January 2014 - 10:09 PM, said:

Some facts to consider:

-People whined about my formerly favourite mech the Catapult K2 so the devs neutered its torso twist and nerfed is two useful builds (dual ac/20 and dual gauss)
-People whined about the Catapult A1 so the devs nerfed it so many times (massively reduced twist, SRM ghost heat, giant arm hitboxes) such that it's now one of the worst mechs in the game
-People whined about Hunchbacks so the devs came up with the engine cap limit (not something I'm opposed to, but the point still stands) and later made the 9 ML hunchback suffer from ghost heat
-People whined about my Ravens so the devs screwed with their hitboxes and made the non-3L variants which I used to love absolutely useless
-People whined about Spiders so the devs mucked with them recently too (jury's still out on the effect)
-People whined about ECM so the devs nerfed the acceleration speed on the only good Cicada, the 3M. Formerly one of my favourite mechs, now pretty useless

So my question is, why is the newest cheese machine the Shadowhawk being allowed to run rampant as a complete package that usually scores near the top of every match? It is fast, has jump jets, very good (broken?) hit boxes and is able to carry every combo of weapons know to man.

Where are its balance nerfs in the sake of fairness?

Now I'm sure one of the first comments will be: "PGI should buff the other mechs, not nerf the ones that work". Fine. Let's start by un-nerfing all my old mechs above. I had the sense not to hand any more money over to PGI for Project Phoenix so I'd like to see my old stable of mechs regain their usefulness.

A similar comment will be: "But mediums need love!" Well the Shadowhawk is only 5 tons short of a heavy - it bearly even classifies as a medium. The Dragon and Quickdraw surely need a lot more love than the heavy mediums we've been getting. Where was people's concern for mediums when the Cicada 3M was nerfed?

For further proof of Shadowhawk superiority, just look at the new hero Hunchback which is completley outclassed by the Shadowhawk in every way save profile size (not much of a factor when jump jets allow the SH to continuously mess with hit detection, hence its legendary survivability).

Deep down everyone knows this mech is at least partly OP. It's why we frequently see premades running packs of 4 of them, especially in Conquest.

.

What you write about the shawk only applies to lower elo games. If you play against players with skills the shadowhawk melts away like snow in saurons backside. it is not an op mech at all and in higher elo matches you rarely see a shadowhawk at the top of the scores.

Check it out yourself. Or ask somebody playing in high elo games.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

thay should have 3 missile slots anyway and griffs aswell

[Monky]

FupDup, on 09 January 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

Honestly, I think that the Shad is the first medium that actually lives up to what mediums *should* be. It has good durability, good maneuverability, and very versatile weapon options. It's the ultimate jack of all trades, but it still usually gets beaten by a well-built heavy or assault in direct fights.

A medium that isn't completely inferior to mechs 65 tons and over? In MY Mechwarrior? It's more likely than you think.

THIS ******* POST. END OF THREAD.

I don't even own any Shadowhawks and I know the Shadowhawk is how mediums need to be.

Edited by Monky, 18 January 2014 - 12:59 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

Roadbeer, on 10 January 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Wait until the Wolverine gets into the hands of the "Great Unwashed"

I'm waiting, excitedly. I'm gonna have me some fun:)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But on a serious note, nerf shadowhawks? get real. This game is being contaminated with heavy/assaults like an outbreak of the bubonic plague. Lances and teams lolstacking as much armour as they can, lugging as much pp alpha as they can. Mediums have been the whipping boy since I started playing and now one comes along that "can" perform well vs the Fatlas gang?
Oh noo those nasty lights are hard to hit! They can kill things! They are OOOOPPPPPPPP!!!!one!!!

Let's not get to where world of tanks go to with heavy tanks being the 90% of the time default go-to tank of choice. We have more than enough heavies and assaults in games, k?

[Colonel Fubar]

MECHWARRIOR'S CHILL
Nothing wrong with sharing personal opinions about issues. But when the counter replies turn into personal attacks it just leaves one to speculate if the posters are coming up short on Heatsinks between the ears. One does not accuse a barometer of causing a storm, so be objective to issues. (PS)
Keep your mitts off my ShadowHawk...she's is running just fine