94 replies to this topic

[Axeman1]

Shadowhawks are my favourite medium and really don't need a nerf. They are like medium assault mechs but when they are loaded up that way just take out a side torso and they die, just like most jaggers.

[LiGhtningFF13]

Shadowhawk?! Whats wrong about it?!

[Utilyan]

I think this mech is very popular and that's it. If everyone was in an Awesome folks would swear it needs a nerf on account of being killed by Awesomes all the time.

[Khobai]

Quote

I think this mech is very popular and that's it

The shadowhawk is popular because its good. If the shadowhawk wasn't good it wouldnt be popular.

Thats why you dont see hunchbacks very often, despite the hunchback being one of the most popular mechs in the franchise. Although the gridiron has made them a bit more popular as players are now playing other variants to level up their gridirons.

The reality is the shadowhawk is the ONLY medium mech that does everything a medium mech should do. If you wanna play a medium its basically play a shadowhawk or ****.

Edited by Khobai, 11 January 2014 - 06:01 PM.

[ToxinTractor]

Only reason Shawks are "OP" or popular right now is because they are one of the heavier mediums that can mount heavy ACs and cater to the sorta alpha build stuff we have been seeing lately. Oh and the jump jets are nice along with the option to mount some rather large engine sizes depending on the variant you use.

Personally I do use a Shawk, use one with 3 AC2s and it does preform really well. But it doesnt feel as fun compared to driving the hunchback or the cicada. Not to mention they are pretty easy to disable, simple because on most of the variants the weapons are either in the right arm and the right/left torso. And if its a ballistic mech then you can just pop the AC/gauss on it and disable most of its firepower.. :s

[Amsro]

Nerfing is OP, nerf nerfing!

[Drunk Canuck]

Aww someone is mad that cheese builds like the AC40 Catapult aren't as viable anymore. Pro tip, they are viable, you must just be bad OP. Just like people say that AC40 Jager's are terrible now, they aren't if you know how to brawl with them, I still consistently put at minimum 400 damage out in one before I die, I can still push 1,000 damage if I get lucky and don't get focused down.

There is nothing wrong with the Shadow Hawk, it has the kind of durability a medium should have, I honestly find the way every chassis in this game is designed aside from the Shadow Hawk and now the Spider, to be absolutely terrible in terms of durability. I like being able to survive heavy hits without having half my weapons destroyed by some obnoxious prat running a 40 point alpha cheese build playing like a poptart scrub who is too chicken to brawl and fight with skill. I can run a 2D2 and top damage in a light hunter and 9 times out of 10 I spend more time fighting heavier Mech's. Or I can run my Shredder version which is good for both killing lights and finishing off heavies and assaults due to it's speed and firepower. This game has a lot of problems, but all Mech's having lousy hitbox design and pinpoint alpha builds make literally every Mech get cored with relative ease.

[Drunk Canuck]

RamataKhan, on 11 January 2014 - 01:01 AM, said:

Uh, the K2 still has one of the best torso twisting in the game, the two builds you mentioned were OP cheese. Slap 4 Mlas & 2 LBX10 ACs on it and it wrecks as mid to close range skirmisher, one of the best. I'm almost always the top damage dealer on my team with it, usually the highest in the match. So no.

Also, I almost never see Shadowhawks topping matches.

You have yet to play in a match with or against me then

I will leave you with this, and it's one of my less then stellar performances with that Mech

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Returning to my thread after a few days: as I fully expected there were lots of self-righteous replies by people who didn't even read the body and so missed the main point entirely (I was actually asking for a buff of weaker mechs, especially older ones, duh). The thread title with the explosive word "nerf" was to get the discussion going.

However the following post was especially dumb so I'll respond to it first.

OneEyed Jack, on 10 January 2014 - 03:23 AM, said:

So..... you only play stuff that's FOTM-broken, because you know it's broken, and don't like when PGI finally cottons on and does something about it?

How can you possibly infer that? If you knew a single thing about me, which you clearly don't, you'd know I tend to avoid meta build mechs (outside of the old 8 man) and I enjoy experimenting mostly with sub-optimal builds. It's precisely that reason that I'd like some of my old builds like the Raven 2x/4x and my LBX/gauss Cicada to get un-nerfed so I could have fun with them again. But sure, go ahead and put up false accusations with no shred of evidence to make yourself feel better.

OneEyed Jack, on 10 January 2014 - 03:23 AM, said:

The SHawk is popular because it's versatile. One variant or another can fill almost any role someone would want to fill with a medium, but it doesn't do it by carrying game-breaking cheese loads, or having broken hit-boxes that ignore damage, or having a 360 arc of fire. In fact it doesn't do anything special at all. It just has the most versatility of one of the most popular tonnages for building mechs in the history of BT/MW.

I can see why you dislike it so much, though.... no I-WIN button.

Get a clue. The Shadow Hawk is the strongest Streak missile platform in the game. Streaks are flat out BROKEN still, the cheesiest weapon by far in the game, especially against light mechs.

If you want to talk about I-WIN buttons, nothing takes the cake of that definition like four, count 'em, four sets of auto-homing lockon missiles you DON'T EVEN HAVE TO AIM. That's a guaranteed 20 points of damage, equal to an ac20 hit, every 3.33 seconds. All while you jump and bounce around the screen and just generally keep your crosshair somewhere in the direction of the enemy. I thought this fact was plain obvious and did not need stating in my original post.

But I guess some people are still that clueless about the mechanics of the game that they can't understand the primary reason why the Shadow Hawk is so powerful, and so popular nowdays. If you think you can hit stuff in your Shadow Hawk streak cheese machine cause your aim is good, think again. Regarding broken hitboxes, anything with JJs has questionable hitboxes because of this game's lingering netcode issues.

As for your contention the SH doesn't do anything else special, wow, nothing more needs to be said. It's only considered the best mech in the game now between the weight of 40-70 tons. It dominates all other builds in that range. It excels with all combos of missiles, ballistics and energy weapons.

Nope folks, nothing special about the SH at all despite the fact it renders over 1/3rd of the other chassis in this game completely obsolete.

.

Edited by 5th Fedcom Rat, 11 January 2014 - 11:28 PM.

[RickySpanish]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 11 January 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

Returning to my thread after a few days: as I fully expected there were lots of self-righteous replies by people who didn't even read the body and so missed the main point entirely (I was actually asking for a buff of weaker mechs, especially older ones, duh). The thread title with the explosive word "nerf" was to get the discussion going.

However the following post was especially dumb so I'll respond to it first.


How can you possibly infer that? If you knew a single thing about me, which you clearly don't, you'd know I tend to avoid meta build mechs (outside of the old 8 man) and I enjoy experimenting mostly with sub-optimal builds. It's precisely that reason that I'd like some of my old builds like the Raven 2x/4x and my LBX/gauss Cicada to get un-nerfed so I could have fun with them again. But sure, go ahead and put up false accusations with no shred of evidence to make yourself feel better.



Get a clue. The Shadow Hawk is the strongest Streak missile platform in the game. Streaks are flat out BROKEN still, the cheesiest weapon by far in the game, especially against light mechs.

If you want to talk about I-WIN buttons, nothing takes the cake of that definition like four, count 'em, four sets of auto-homing lockon missiles you DON'T EVEN HAVE TO AIM. That's a guaranteed 20 points of damage, equal to an ac20 hit, every 3.33 seconds. All while you jump and bounce around the screen and just generally keep your crosshair somewhere in the direction of the enemy. I thought this fact was plain obvious and did not need stating in my original post.

But I guess some people are still that clueless about the mechanics of the game that they can't understand the primary reason why the Shadow Hawk is so powerful, and so popular nowdays. If you think you can hit stuff in your Shadow Hawk streak cheese machine cause your aim is good, think again. Regarding broken hitboxes, anything with JJs has questionable hitboxes because of this game's lingering netcode issues.

As for your contention the SH doesn't do anything else special, wow, nothing more needs to be said. It's only considered the best mech in the game now between the weight of 40-70 tons. It dominates all other builds in that range. It excels with all combos of missiles, ballistics and energy weapons.

Nope folks, nothing special about the SH at all despite the fact it renders over 1/3rd of the other chassis in this game completely obsolete.

.

Watchoo been smoking OP? Streaks aren't broken in the least. Who cares if they lock on and do more damage than regular missiles when the location they home in on is random? The best you can do is hope to hit the largest component the enemy is currently presenting toward you. Only lights should fear streaks, since the close proximity of their components and lack of armour means that even spraying all your damage over them is enough to take them down fast... But then again, what self respecting light engages a streak boat? If you aren't a light, then brawling streak boats is easy mode since your pinpoint weapons will saw off whatever component you take a fancy to while they're plinking away at the 300+ points of armour your Mech probably has.

I'm personally far more scared of a Hunchie hiding in the shadows with an AC20 just waiting for one of my arms or torsos to get their paint scratched, or a Victor with my number. Who cares about streaks when you aren't getting within 300m in the first place?

[Praehotec8]

The shadowhawk doesn't need any nerfs. Period. End of story. No further explanation is needed.

[C E Dwyer]

The Unknown Pilot, on 11 January 2014 - 05:32 AM, said:

Red ones go faster.

Blue has more money, and owns the controlling interest in red for the last fifty seven years, every time red goes above 50kph, blues share holders get a dividend

[zztophat]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 11 January 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

I don't know what "self-righteous" means.

And I'm pretty sure everyone disagreeing with me means I'm right.

See what I did there? I edited what your post said to make it reflect what I think it's actually saying.

It's funny because that's not actually what you said!

Hilarious! I am a comedic genius!

Likes go here V

[Scrawny Cowboy]

It's threads like these that slow down development.
Development for my cupholders.

[OneEyed Jack]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 11 January 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

How can you possibly infer that?

Do you need a reason beyond the fact that everything you were whining about was FOTM BS, some of them because of actual bad code, so that they were doing things they literally were never supposed to do, such as ignoring valid hits? Look up "infer," because it's not what I did. It was a direct translation of your own words into something that wasn't a wall of whine.

5th Fedcom Rat, on 11 January 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

But sure, go ahead and put up false accusations with no shred of evidence to make yourself feel better.

See above.

5th Fedcom Rat, on 11 January 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

Get a clue. The Shadow Hawk is the strongest Streak missile platform in the game. Streaks are flat out BROKEN still, the cheesiest weapon by far in the game, especially against light mechs.

If you actually think that, after playing as long as you apparently have, then there's simply no help for it.

5th Fedcom Rat, on 11 January 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

If you want to talk about I-WIN buttons, nothing takes the cake of that definition like four, count 'em, four sets of auto-homing lockon missiles you DON'T EVEN HAVE TO AIM. That's a guaranteed 20 points of damage, equal to an ac20 hit, every 3.33 seconds. All while you jump and bounce around the screen and just generally keep your crosshair somewhere in the direction of the enemy. I thought this fact was plain obvious and did not need stating in my original post.

Well... it didn't need stating, but not for the reasons you think.

5th Fedcom Rat, on 11 January 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

But I guess some people are still that clueless about the mechanics of the game...

Congratulations! At least you got one right.

5th Fedcom Rat, on 11 January 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

...that they can't understand the primary reason why the Shadow Hawk is so powerful, and so popular nowdays.

You think it's because one variant can carry 4 SSRM?

5th Fedcom Rat, on 11 January 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

Regarding broken hitboxes, anything with JJs has questionable hitboxes because of this game's lingering netcode issues.

Netcode and hit-boxes are not even remotely the same thing. But please, don't let that prevent you from attempting to validate your desire to see broken {Scrap} "un-nerfed."

5th Fedcom Rat, on 11 January 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

As for your contention the SH doesn't do anything else special, wow, nothing more needs to be said.

And yet you keep blathering.

5th Fedcom Rat, on 11 January 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

It's only considered the best mech in the game now between the weight of 40-70 tons. It dominates all other builds in that range. It excels with all combos of missiles, ballistics and energy weapons.

Nope folks, nothing special about the SH at all despite the fact it renders over 1/3rd of the other chassis in this game completely obsolete.

It's a mech with versatile hardpoints, Jump Jets, and reasonable hit boxes that is also right at one of the best tonnages for mech construction, and has no particular downsides. Altogether that adds up to a very solid mech, but "best" is a matter of opinion and depends on intent. If one wanted to have a single chassis to reconfigure for 5 different uses, you are likely right, due to it's versatility. But since we've already established that you believe the entire reason for their un-godly power and popularity is 4 Streaks......

Better include the Griffin in your rant, since it is also a 55-tonner that can pack 4 Streaks, but it can also have more JJs!

[OneEyed Jack]

Roadbeer, on 10 January 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Wait until the Wolverine gets into the hands of the "Great Unwashed"

You're gonna start playing Wolvies?

DarthPeanut, on 10 January 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

Just a thought here and my trivial input. Since they are arguably the best medium mech right now, might it be that so many people use them it is kind of giving a false sense of imbalance?

Some, perhaps many, people assume that anything seeing significant play must, by default, be broken/OP because they consider themselves and their own motives the norm.

[Effectz]

OP whines about nerfs but wants the SHawk nerfed.

[Dirus Nigh]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 January 2014 - 04:32 AM, said:

They'd still complain cause my Ride is Blue and they hate blue. Blue is OP so ban that color!

LOL WUT!? Dude blue is not OP, L2P. If any thing it needs a buff. Devs need to nerf Red! I always get killed by mechs with red icons.

[Harmatia]

When Shadowhawk pilots don't need to fight a team of assault mechs.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

OneEyed Jack, on 12 January 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

Do you need a reason beyond the fact that everything you were whining about was FOTM BS, some of them because of actual bad code, so that they were doing things they literally were never supposed to do, such as ignoring valid hits? Look up "infer," because it's not what I did. It was a direct translation of your own words into something that wasn't a wall of whine.

I love people who whine about other people's threads. Thanks for entering mine and proceeding to fill it with internet nerd tears (especially the cute little Data gif) because I threatened your streak machine. I got the same hostile response over a year ago from all the people who ran Streak Cats when I suggested examining them. "Oh, there's nothing wrong with them at all!"

I wasn't praising FOTM cheese machines. Quite the opposite in fact! That you still fail to get that point is hilarious. At the time those mechs I listed were nerfed, I agree they had problematic elements. But the game has changed. Maps, weapons, tactics have changed. The Catapult A1 is hardly a threat anymore when the Shadow Hawk or Kintaro can mount almost as many streaks in far more compact, less vulnerable forms. I listed those nerfed mechs in order to remind folks that the Devs have, in the past, taken action to adjust builds. And was simply trying to start a discussion about whether a similar adjustment of the SH might see the light of day eventually. The hostile response indicates to me there are many SH fanboys who sunk money into Project Phoenix and don't want the one preceived P2W advantage that gave them taken away (the early access and "hero" SH).

In the same way the developers took a look at the Catapults during the height of their popularity/effectiveness, I was simply asking whether it's time they took a look at the Shadow Hawk as well. That, and consider whether the mechs they nerfed such at the Catapult, in light of more recent chassis like the SH, can now be un-nerfed.

I'd like you to take a few minutes and explain why anyone should take a Catapult C1/C4/A1 or even K2 over more recent chassis like the Shadow Hawk. Outside of slightly heavier armor they're laughably outmoded in comparison. Oh, fear my 2 giant hardpoint missile boxes and four lasers says the C1 Cat! SH 2H with 3 missiles, 3 energy, 1 ballistic says hi. Oh, tremble before the mighty Catapult C4 with its 4 missile hardpoints in giant easy to shoot arms and 2 useless CT energy hardpoints in light of the SH 2D2.

OneEyed Jack, on 12 January 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

Better include the Griffin in your rant, since it is also a 55-tonner that can pack 4 Streaks, but it can also have more JJs!

Griffin has obvious limitations you're apparently too dense to understand... like NO BALLISTIC SLOTS and ALL ITS WEAPONS ON ONE SIDE.

BTW, you're again putting words in my mouth... never said streaks were the ONLY reason Shadowhawk is so powerful. Just the most immediate one. I have said repeatedly in my replies you never read, or are unable to understand due to stunted reading comprehension skills, that the Shadowhawk can mount all weapon types effectively. The Streak cheese is just its most enduring charm, and why the SHD-2D2 is far and away the most common variants encountered on the field, and indeed one of the most common mechs in the entire game right now. Do you deny that? I'd like to see you fall flat on your face trying to.[Redacted]

Edited by Black Templar, 13 January 2014 - 04:16 AM.
Insult