94 replies to this topic

[DONTOR]

Truesight, on 09 January 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

Well, if all your old mechs would still be good, you do not need to buy new ones!

They just want to make money.

The main reason I liked the OP is because they need to undo most of the old nerfs they handed down to older mechs. It is making them significantly outclassed. The shadow hawk itself doesnt bother me much, and I hardly use them.

What truesight says is also probably true, they need to send out mechs that everyone will want, and spend money on. It still isnt a good reason to keep old nerfs in effect though.

Edited by DONTOR, 10 January 2014 - 09:55 AM.

[Khobai]

the three AC/2 shawk is hardly overpowered. have you even piloted one? the thing overheats so fast its a joke. Personally id be way more scared of an LB10X shawk with streaks.

[Navy Sixes]

Trauglodyte, on 10 January 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

I would argue that the Shawk only really causes an issue when it is either Streak spamming (which makes the user a lazy *** abusing too-easy-to-use Streaks) or when it is boating as many AC2s as possible (which makes the user a bad for abusing the cockpit shake mechanic). light-ECM hit-reg crutchers don't know how to break a lock at close range and FNG's don't know that cockpit shake means nothing if you hit R and aim for the center of the red box since for all that flash and smoke your guns aren't shaking at all.

Fixed it for you. Your original post suggested that the build isn't broken, but fitting it out certain ways is. As if there were no counter for certain weapon configs, when people who know how to play understand that this is just not the case.

[DarthPeanut]

I enjoy my shadowhawks (spent a LOT of time grinding in them) and do well in them (relatively speaking) so I may be biased but I do not see them being as dramatically out of balance as suggested. I think they are just a very well rounded medium mech. JJ, good loadout options, enough speed with XL's, etc.

Just a thought here and my trivial input. Since they are arguably the best medium mech right now, might it be that so many people use them it is kind of giving a false sense of imbalance? In public matches I am in I see tons of them in an evening of play.. seems like hawks and hunchies are always the bulk of mediums dropping. Makes them seem like they are dominating the games until you really look at the final scores.

Edited by DarthPeanut, 10 January 2014 - 11:47 AM.

[zztophat]

OneEyed Jack, on 10 January 2014 - 03:23 AM, said:

So..... you only play stuff that's FOTM-broken, because you know it's broken, and don't like when PGI finally cottons on and does something about it?

The SHawk is popular because it's versatile. One variant or another can fill almost any role someone would want to fill with a medium, but it doesn't do it by carrying game-breaking cheese loads, or having broken hit-boxes that ignore damage, or having a 360 arc of fire. In fact it doesn't do anything special at all. It just has the most versatility of one of the most popular tonnages for building mechs in the history of BT/MW.

I can see why you dislike it so much, though.... no I-WIN button.

It took too many posts for someone to finally say this.

[Victor Morson]

Option 1: When they nerf Highlanders, Victors, Cataphracts... basically never.

Option 2: When Paul/Russ is killed by a Shadow Hawk and they randomly get nerfed five months from now.

EDIT: Also it doesn't need nerfing. The Shadow Hawk is just the natural result of an untiered hardpoint system: Eventually you run out of things to build.

Face it, what the Shadow Hawk does is echo'ed in dozens of 'mechs; it's just the best at it for it's tonnage through, which I would highly suspect is a fluke given how they oudated all other 55 tonners with it.

My point? If they ever "nerf" the Shadow Hawk, it should be around a total hardpoint rework for the core system, all 'mechs.

Edited by Victor Morson, 10 January 2014 - 12:51 PM.

[kesuga7]

FupDup, on 09 January 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

Honestly, I think that the Shad is the first medium that actually lives up to what mediums *should* be.

what about the other mediums
left in the dust by superior shadowhawk

[Trauglodyte]

Victor Morson, on 10 January 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

Option 1: When they nerf Highlanders, Victors, Cataphracts... basically never.

Option 2: When Paul/Russ is killed by a Shadow Hawk and they randomly get nerfed five months from now.

EDIT: Also it doesn't need nerfing. The Shadow Hawk is just the natural result of an untiered hardpoint system: Eventually you run out of things to build.

Face it, what the Shadow Hawk does is echo'ed in dozens of 'mechs; it's just the best at it for it's tonnage through, which I would highly suspect is a fluke given how they oudated all other 55 tonners with it.

My point? If they ever "nerf" the Shadow Hawk, it should be around a total hardpoint rework for the core system, all 'mechs.

Well, in a competitive scenario, you really only have two to three SHawks:

the Streakhawk (the Kintaro can do it but lacks JJs)
the AC20hawk (the Hunchback, YLW, and Treb 7K can all do it but lack JJs - BJ1 can do it but it would be slow at 77kph)
AC5+PPChawk (any of the 50 tonners can do it but all lack JJs - BJ1 can do it but not well and it is REALLY hot)

It isn't even so much the hard points or the weight of the Shadowhawk but rather that, because of the power of JJs, it can do everything that needs to be done by a Medium mech that the rest of its weight classmates cannot do. And yes, you are absolutely correct in that this will continue to happen as long as there isn't a sweeping change made to hard points. Unfortunately, PGI *cough* RUSS *cough cough* has said on more than a few occassions that they like the originality that they see when it comes to mech builds. I wonder if they're so thrilled by the fact that there are only really three or four builds out there for mechs now.

[FupDup]

kesuga7, on 10 January 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

what about the other mediums
left in the dust by superior shadowhawk

Buff the other mediums until they can compete with the Shaq Hawk, and then we will reach enlightenment.

[Trauglodyte]

FupDup, on 10 January 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

Buff the other mediums until they can compete with the Shaq Hawk, and then we will reach enlightenment.

To do that, they all need to be able to mount an AC20 and JJs or Streaks and JJs. Doesn't look good for the Cicada, Hunchy, or Cent.

[Khobai]

Quote

Buff the other mediums until they can compete with the Shaq Hawk, and then we will reach enlightenment.

Well the first place to start would be looking at the scaling. If PGI isnt going to rescale the mechs then they should at least give them buffs proportional to their scaling issues. So a medium like the Trebuchet should get a bigger buff than a medium like the Hunchback because the Trebuchet is the size of most assault mechs.

Since the Trebuchet is meant to be an LRM mech, it would make sense to give it some LRM-related quirks. Like maybe give it 25% better LRM tracking and 25% tighter LRM spread as a passive quirk. Or maybe even let the Trebuchet use ECM. They need to give it something to make it worth playing.

Edited by Khobai, 10 January 2014 - 02:39 PM.

[FupDup]

Trauglodyte, on 10 January 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

To do that, they all need to be able to mount an AC20 and JJs or Streaks and JJs. Doesn't look good for the Cicada, Hunchy, or Cent.

If JJs, Streaks, and AC/20 are required for a medium to "compete," that's a sign of some bad balancing right there.


Also, I'd argue that there are many good Shad loadouts that use the smaller ACs and sometimes forgo using Streaks.

[jper4]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 January 2014 - 04:32 AM, said:

They'd still complain cause my Ride is Blue and they hate blue. Blue is OP so ban that color!

well it looks like red is getting a buff this weekend. maybe that will bring it more in line with blue now.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

1) The Shawk won't be nerfed, its as tall as a Highlander.

2) Instead of nerfing the good mechs, why not buff the mediums? Give them the torso twist, turn radius and accleration they need to survive.

[Anjian]

I doubt the Shadowhawk is going to get nerfed. I think it was the Powers At Be's intention in the first place to put Mediums front and center and the reemphasize the class, that this is supposedly the popular grunt class of Mechwarrior.

And I think its working. I honestly don't think Shadowhawks dominate in every match I have seen. I see them doing well, mines included, and sometimes we get to the top of the lists, but its far from always.

Thanks to the new hero mech and the new modular designs, I see Hunchies resurging in popularity again, in addition to the halo effect the Shadowhawk has on this. One PUG match yesterday there were at least 5 to 6 Hunchies in our team (we won too). The halo effect of the Shadowhawks and the Saber mechs has also seen an increase in Kintaros, which are no doubt helped by the redraw of their hit boxes. In fact the whole category of mediums are having a resurgence, including the much maligned Trebuchet.

I also think that the newer random drops of lances, along with large numbers of light mechs have also brought a resurge in Medium mech popularity, with mediums frequently and feverishly gunning down lights, making even the life of a Spider harder. I hope so and I think so, ever since I put on medium mechs, I enjoy chasing and cutting down light mechs.

[Zerberus]

OneEyed Jack, on 10 January 2014 - 03:23 AM, said:

So..... you only play stuff that's FOTM-broken, because you know it's broken, and don't like when PGI finally cottons on and does something about it?.....

I can see why you dislike it so much, though.... no I-WIN button.

THIS.

The list of mechs that you are whining about are, as you list them, all cheesebuilds....

So essentially, your problem seems to be that you are no longer OP because you no longer have a broken option to choose from, so instead of self-reflection and self improvement, you just assume that you`re a megabadass and that whatever outperforms you is obviously broken.

You appear to be the kind of pilot that would blame a NASCAR loss on everything that every other team does, because all of it must be illegal. Completely disregarding that the most important piece of equipment in ANY vehicle, real or virtual, has always been and always will be the driver.

It`s also the one most prone to failure...

[Kenyon Burguess]

afaik it arrived nerfed. not only does it need an XL engine to shine, it only has 3 jumpjets and is the perfect target for ***** shooting. you can make very short work of their left torso and be on your merry way.

[Sagamore]

Hopefully they get hit by the nerf bat after I finish leveling them. I just finished with Thunderbolts, now onto Shadowhawks...

[RamataKhan]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 09 January 2014 - 10:09 PM, said:

-People whined about my formerly favourite mech the Catapult K2 so the devs neutered its torso twist and nerfed is two useful builds (dual ac/20 and dual gauss)

Uh, the K2 still has one of the best torso twisting in the game, the two builds you mentioned were OP cheese. Slap 4 Mlas & 2 LBX10 ACs on it and it wrecks as mid to close range skirmisher, one of the best. I'm almost always the top damage dealer on my team with it, usually the highest in the match. So no.

Also, I almost never see Shadowhawks topping matches.

Edited by RamataKhan, 11 January 2014 - 01:04 AM.

[The Unknown Pilot]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 January 2014 - 04:32 AM, said:

They'd still complain cause my Ride is Blue and they hate blue. Blue is OP so ban that color!

Red ones go faster.