125 replies to this topic

[18 Inches of Hard Steel]

Lets start by quoting everyone's favourite dev from his Clan Command Chair Post.

Clan Technology - A Design Perspective
Started by Paul Inouye, Dec 14 2013 01:37 PM

...swapping can be done for all locations except for the center torso. The CT will be what identifies the Mech for purposes such as XP and Mech efficiencies...
...All the configurations of a given OmniMech are based around a base configuration (not to be confused with the Prime configuration). This is the core of the Mech, with all the modular bits stripped out, and what remains cannot be customized at all. These include:

The engine type and rating
The number and placement of a minimum number of heatsinks
The amount and distribution of armor
The armor type and the location of any critical slots occupied by Ferro-Fibrous
The internal structure type and the location of any critical slots occupied by Endo Steel
Enhancements such as MASC
The occasional weapon or other piece of equipment (e.g. jump jets) that is included as part of the base configuration...

These points were restated in the recent Vlog.

Mechs die because specific components are destroyed.
Specific components are destroyed fastest if they are easy to hit and weakly armoured.

Stock Clan lights will be running around 100kph, with their low and poorly spread armor.
These mechs will be ONE SHOTTED more often than the sad Locust we have now. At 100kph and slow manouverability people stop missing with their alphas, and a big alpha (~50dmg) can already core a stock jenner.

But Clan Lights are known for having loadouts with heavy weapons!

With the system we have right now any light can have super-heavy loadouts... some solid builds run with ERPPCs... but none of them will sacrifice speed (maybe some CDA or RVN-4X builds go down to 130, but they are not prevelant).

The number one rule of piloting a light is DO NOT STOP MOVING.
With a stock engine you might as well start the match legged.

Edited by 18 Inches of Hard Steel, 10 January 2014 - 04:25 AM.

[Sephlock]

On the other hand, IS lights will finally have something to pwn.

[CDLord HHGD]

Oh one of THESE threads again....

You know, if I had 1 MC for every time someone said a mech was DOA without it even being in the game yet, well, I wouldn't need to spend any real money on this game. Some of my favorite mechs are the predicted DOA ones.... Spider, Victor, Orion, Jester, Deaths Knell, Blackjack, etc.... Just crying wolf here...

Just stop thinking, sit back, and wait till they arrive. Nothing you say is gonna change their mind at this stage anyways. Have to wait till they are played for any real world data.

[18 Inches of Hard Steel]

cdlord, on 10 January 2014 - 04:54 AM, said:

Oh one of THESE threads again....

You know, if I had 1 MC for every time someone said a mech was DOA without it even being in the game yet, well, I wouldn't need to spend any real money on this game. Some of my favorite mechs are the predicted DOA ones.... Spider, Victor, Orion, Jester, Deaths Knell, Blackjack, etc.... Just crying wolf here...

Just stop thinking, sit back, and wait till they arrive. Nothing you say is gonna change their mind at this stage anyways. Have to wait till they are played for any real world data.

People love to cry wolf about mechs but this is a whole customization system, I want to get it out while there is still a chance for it to be changed.
And I offered real world data as the reason they will be bad, like how other mechs are built now to compete. Mechs like:

Death's Knell: Uses max engine
Spider: Uses max engine
Blackjack: Uses max engine

A nice Threadnaught at least brings communication...

[Teshtube]

isnt the role of Clan Light meant to be different, they arnt so much scouts as they are light mediums, apparently in lore a clan light goes toe to toe with IS mediums, im guessing the balance will come from clan Mechs while being slower, will be able to use both clan tech (there are hints only clan mech will be able to use clan tech, but ONLY clan tech) and the modular designs meaning they will probably have a bit more beefy on the weapons, while ligher on speed and armour

its all about balance, just because they wont be fast, does not mean their small profile wont help them in brawls, just a thought, anyway

wait until they come out to complain.

edit: the key component is if there is no mixed tech, as in if clan can only use clan and IS can only use IS, this would probably be the best way to balance them

Edit2: also the armour values are somthing that a lot of people are talking about so we will see if that gets changed, which it might (or they could change the base amounts, they already have to change a lot of Lore value for the weapons, why not for the mechs?

Edited by Set Tesh, 10 January 2014 - 05:03 AM.

[18 Inches of Hard Steel]

They will have more weapons, but clan tech is nerfed so it will be much like putting heavy weapons on a light we have now.

Any light pilots who run their lights slow and with heavy weapons?

[CyclonerM]

Remember the Kit Fox can hurt you with an UAC/5. And that with speed tweak it will be a bit faster.

[Teshtube]

18 Inches of Hard Steel, on 10 January 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

They will have more weapons, but clan tech is nerfed so it will be much like putting heavy weapons on a light we have now.

Any light pilots who run their lights slow and with heavy weapons?

once again, they are changing lore values, and they are making it so clan tech isnt blatantly better, that does not mean there wont be any more benefits, they will still likely take up less space and weight then IS counterparts

and i see lights with PPCs and LLs all the time, some even with ACs and stuff,

we DO NOT KNOW, if the engine sizes will be the ones listed in lore, we DO NOT KNOW, if the armour values will be the same,
they have already said they have to change lore values for clan tech in general to balance them, this means WE DO NOT KNOW!

leave this until we get some actual info.

everything your saying here, they know, hence CHANGING LORE VALUES!

sorry for caps, just trying to highlight the important parts.

[18 Inches of Hard Steel]

Set Tesh, on 10 January 2014 - 05:18 AM, said:

once again, they are changing lore values, and they are making it so clan tech isnt blatantly better, that does not mean there wont be any more benefits, they will still likely take up less space and weight then IS counterparts

and i see lights with PPCs and LLs all the time, some even with ACs and stuff,

we DO NOT KNOW, if the engine sizes will be the ones listed in lore, we DO NOT KNOW, if the armour values will be the same,
they have already said they have to change lore values for clan tech in general to balance them, this means WE DO NOT KNOW!

leave this until we get some actual info.

everything your saying here, they know, hence CHANGING LORE VALUES!

sorry for caps, just trying to highlight the important parts.

People use heavy weapons, but with max engines. You're right I don't know, and the devs also don't know. The point of a thread isn't to just complain, it's to hope a dev will notice and have it effect his descision.

The devs have always replicated the stock loadouts and say the plan to continue, therefore WE DO KNOW they will be the same as the ones in lore. They always reproduce the stock loadouts, why would they change now?

[Teshtube]

18 Inches of Hard Steel, on 10 January 2014 - 05:33 AM, said:

People use heavy weapons, but with max engines. You're right I don't know, and the devs also don't know. The point of a thread isn't to just complain, it's to hope a dev will notice and have it effect his descision.

The devs have always replicated the stock loadouts and say the plan to continue, therefore WE DO KNOW they will be the same as the ones in lore. They always reproduce the stock loadouts, why would they change now?

actually we know for a fact they wont be, because nerfing clan techs weight and slots (increasing both, they have already said they are doing this) means a lot of stock builds wont actually work,
what is why they would change now

while the weapon build may end up the same, a LOT of the numbers will be different, which means they have already broken the "but they are this in the lore" barrier, now they are very free to change armour values/default engines sizes.

Edited by Set Tesh, 10 January 2014 - 05:38 AM.

[mindwarp]

I'd be more concerned about the general design of clan mechs. Almost all of them are hunched over with low slung weapons mounted almost exclusively in their arms. While not enough to make them DOA, the lack of any high mounted direct fire weapons will make them less favourable to a large amount of the playerbase. Most of them have protruding, bulky torsos as well.

[18 Inches of Hard Steel]

Where are you getting that weapon weight and slots change from?

Here are more quotes from paul:

As an example, what would will probably be applied to this weapon is the following:

• Reduce the max range but still give it a slight edge over IS tech. Change from 750m to 660m for a 90m increase over IS tech.
  
• Increase the beam duration of the laser to spread damage over more time.
  
• Make the Heat Scale slightly higher than the IS version.

What the above changes allows to happen is that the Clan ER Large Laser still gets a reach buff, still gets to have higher damage, still gets the tonnage and space reduction but requires the player to hold targets longer and it will generate much more heat when Alpha’d. i.e. The weapon still keeps its Clan properties/feel but requires better skill and heat management to operate.

[CyclonerM]

Set Tesh, on 10 January 2014 - 05:36 AM, said:

actually we know for a fact they wont be, because nerfing clan techs weight and slots (increasing both, they have already said they are doing this) means a lot of stock builds wont actually work,
what is why they would change now

Where have you read this? in the CC post it is said only that they are looking at the wiright for the CLRM20. Nothing else.

[Risen]

Most mechs being used in the game by players have maxed armor values (maybe missing 1-3 tons on heavies to assaults).

With the current pin point alpha fire and slow lights and mediums pared with bad armor placement clanmechs will be sitting duck glass cannons.

But let us just wait until PGI comes up with some more infos, until then there is no reason to buy any Clan package upfront.

[SgtMagor]

yup yup, clan mechs should and will be powerful. but I want to be able to do this to a Clan mech

[oldradagast]

I try not to think about the coming Clans. As far as I can tell, they will either be a complete joke or grossly overpowered.

More precisely:

1) They are supposed to have fully customizable mechs... and yet their mechs are going to be LESS customizable than the IS, which is completely backwards from lore and, as other have said, makes certain mechs DOA. I mean, really.. would anyone play an IS light mech with the Clan limits in place? Or imagine an under-armored trap like the default Jagermechs - completely unplayable.

This whole backwardness makes as much sense as creating a Star Wars game where the Empire is badly outnumbered by the Rebels, and the hero of the story is Skywalker who's a Jedi building the Death Star... and then claiming it's "just like the movies." it's just totally wrong on every level.

2) Clan technology will be some mix of useless and broken. I can't imagine their autocannons being balanced... unless PGI adds fake balance (maybe more ghost heat?!)

In the end, we'll have clan tech on IS mechs, most clan mechs will be DOA, and the game will be insanely unbalanced. Ugh...

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

The omnimech system they have proposed is almost exactly how I hoped and expected them to do it, with the clever addition of the swappable part locations (with attendant hit boxes and quirks).

As for Clan Lights, I expect them to do just what the BJ does, namely go between 80 and 110 kph and carry plenty of firepower. Sure, one of the BJs can go faster than the others, but given that a BJ is basically a glorified light the fact that it can't go faster than 90 kph or thereabouts should mean it was DOA, yes? But that's clearly not the case. Throw in Clan tech for weapons and I think you'll see the current selection of Clan Lights doing just fine, so long as people don't play them like IS lights. Future Clan mech options (Koshi, Dasher, etc.) are more fitting for that play style.

[FupDup]

The Kit Fox will go 106 kph after speed tweak and literally carries as many armor points as a Locust. Tell me, do any of you think that a Locust running at 106 kph is able to accomplish much? Does a Locust running at 169 kph even accomplish much? Oh sure, the Fox will be able to mount a "STAGGERING" 16 tons of weapons, but all the firepower in the world doesn't matter if you can't take what you can dish out (plus, 16 tons just is not impressive in any capacity). Also, that 16 tons of weapons is getting nerfed, so it won't be that much better than 16 tons of Inner Sphere guns (if at all).


The Adder will be slightly better off in that it has nearly max armor (missing 4 points on each leg), but it will still have the same speed and armaments issues as the Fox. Plus, it has an utterly fucklng useless head-mounted Flamer wasting 0.5 tons of your weight.



The Adder will still have a lot of problems, but it might be somewhat bearable to play in the steering wheel underhive. The Fox, though? Absolutely no hope in the world unless PGI announces some kind of crazy chassis quirks or the ability to actually customize things.

Edited by FupDup, 10 January 2014 - 09:49 AM.

[FireSlade]

I just see that a change in tactics will be needed. Light mechs will no longer be able to run in the open dodging shots but instead will have to use terrain and cover. Also, we have no idea how things will play out with the Clans PGI might give some Clan lights a speed boosting quirk or MASC might be available when they come. Hard to call something DOA. One prediction though is that I see the Adder being the most used light; small profile, heavily armored (for a Clan light), and sporting two CERPPCs that if left untouched will do 15 damage to at least 810 meters. Name an Innersphere light that can dump 30 pinpoint damage into a single location now...

[Blood Rose]

Im not worried about the lights, they have it easy.
What about the poor Hellbringer? Sure its fast. Sure its heavily armed. But it has tin foil for armour. No, really, it is a 65 ton Mech with the armour of a 30 tonner.