70 replies to this topic

[Skyfaller]

Warge, on 11 January 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

Hit detection on Spiders still don't work well...

That's incorrect. It works TOO good and that is why people have a problem with it.

Try aiming an ER LL or an AC2 at a STATIC spider's legs at 600m. Your aim has to be absolutely perfect or the beam can actually pass in between the legs and miss. Try aiming at the same spider's left torso. With your best aim chances are you will strike the arm or the CT because the spider is so darn SMALL that its armor sections are also very small.

Now add a moving, torso twisting, jet using spider to the mix and at any range, it is impossible to focus the damage on one specific section to pop it off. Spider carrier 20 armor avg in every section.

This is why its well known that to take one down your best bet is to aim for the legs since you will either miss or hit one of the two legs. If you aim for the CT you will be spreading your damage over 12 armor sections (6 front 6 back) so your chances of melting the 20 armor are very low. The legs oth are easier to wear down but they're also very hard to hit.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Spiders have a slight advantage where the CT goes all the way down to the kneecaps making them one of the most difficult mechs to leg.

Edited by lockwoodx, 12 January 2014 - 08:02 AM.

[SamsungNinja]

lockwoodx, on 12 January 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

Spiders have a slight advantage where the CT goes all the way down to the kneecaps making them one of the most difficult mechs to leg.

...wot?

Spiders are easy to leg. They're difficult to core, for a light, because they're always zipping around at 130-166kph while JJing and torso twisting.

The big thing with Spiders is the attacker's latency. Every single time that someone in game has complained about Spiders being OP and I hit TAB to check their latency, they're always sporting a ping of 300+. And frankly, there's no other game where you're shooting at something that's spinning around and boosting through the air at 166kph. The fact that HSR works as well as it does is a testament to PGI's abilities.

For those that complain, it's their fault for not learning how to cope with their bad internet and learn to either lead Spiders accordingly, or just not engage them unless they have no choice. If you can't hit it, shoot at something you can; let the pilots who know how/are able to shoot them take care of the little munchkins.

[Viges]

I just wanna see spiders with clan weapons MUAHAHAHAHAHA

[A banana in the tailpipe]

SamsungNinja, on 12 January 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

...wot?

It has been a good long while since the spider has graced my mechlab but last I recall the CT went down to the upper kneecap. In-fact I was planning on purchasing one again so give me 5 to go do it and I'll correct myself if mistaken.

edit: well I'm still a million shy and it won't let me mess around in the mechlab with the trial spider so I'm afraid the answer will have to wait. My apologies.

Edited by lockwoodx, 12 January 2014 - 09:08 AM.

[Thorqemada]

When you witness a Spider with a single PPC taking out 2 quite healthy Assaults in the endgame of a match you could start to feel that way - but on the other Hand the Assaults worked not well together, had no AC Ammo left, the Spider stayed inside the LRM minimum range of the LRM Assault and chanfiring Lasers at a Spider is smply wasting time.
If they had Alphaed the Legs they still could have stopped him...

So the Spider did very well and his opponents did not well using the capabilities of their Mechs.

That does not mean though that Lights not can do things any other Weightclass gets severe punishment for and it is still a very asymmtric fight from a balancing point of view and it probably needs more refined Roles for some Mechs.

Edited by Thorqemada, 12 January 2014 - 09:05 AM.

[Ghogiel]

SDRs aren't even the best light mech by a good margin. Their superman powers are very inconsistent.

They do have their moments of impossible. But most of the time you'll get fried if try any stupid **** with good players about.
You can troll a bit harder in one if you play offpeak prime time against high ping players

[C E Dwyer]

Arahantius, on 11 January 2014 - 04:20 PM, said:

I am new to the MWO game but not the battletech universe so excuse my lack of information on this subject.

I have been informed by several people on the forum that Spiders seem to have a balance issue in the game and that anyone using them is using a loophole of some sort. I have not found that to be the case myself but the animosity toward Spider pilots seems to coraborate the opinion.

Does anyone know what these gameplay imbalances are? Please share.

Depends who you ask, how good a shot they are, if they pilot spiders, how good the spider pilot is.

I pilot every mech available frame rate between 40-60 depending on how hi I feel like having graphic how busy, the screen is etc

Some days I can knock the head off at 350 meters with an ac20, other days I over compensate and drag the lasers so far

There are some hit detection issues, as there are with srm's but they are not as far reaching or as bad as a lot of people make out, its a case of jumping on the band wagon and magnifying the problem 10 fold to use as an excuse

think tabloid and not the times over these issues and you should get a balanced view of them

[Skyfaller]

Thorqemada, on 12 January 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

When you witness a Spider with a single PPC taking out 2 quite healthy Assaults in the endgame of a match you could start to feel that way -

....
So the Spider did very well and his opponents did not well using the capabilities of their Mechs.
...
That does not mean though that Lights not can do things any other Weightclass gets severe punishment for and it is still a very asymmtric fight from a balancing point of view and it probably needs more refined Roles for some Mechs.

ive done that with an ER LL. It took a LONG time though and the assaults were just bad pilots. They had short range weapons so I simply kited them at twice their max weapon range. as they foolishly kept trying to chase me.

[Xyroc]

Iskareot, on 11 January 2014 - 10:22 PM, said:

Spiders are not overpowered in the sense... they have MORE power... then others but the issue is you cannot kill them like any other mech. EVEN other light mechs smaller or same size.

They tend to have a dodge hitbox. So , in short they are broke in the fact you could blast them with a full on front 5 laser shot and do no damage or maybe 5 -- it's amazing to watch also why they are left last in many drops.

I havent had any issue hitting and killing spiders .... the thing is people think they are hitting them more than they really are

[Mister Blastman]

Arahantius, on 11 January 2014 - 04:20 PM, said:

I am new to the MWO game but not the battletech universe so excuse my lack of information on this subject.

I have been informed by several people on the forum that Spiders seem to have a balance issue in the game and that anyone using them is using a loophole of some sort. I have not found that to be the case myself but the animosity toward Spider pilots seems to coraborate the opinion.

Does anyone know what these gameplay imbalances are? Please share.

No.

[SamsungNinja]

lockwoodx, on 12 January 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

It has been a good long while since the spider has graced my mechlab but last I recall the CT went down to the upper kneecap. In-fact I was planning on purchasing one again so give me 5 to go do it and I'll correct myself if mistaken.

edit: well I'm still a million shy and it won't let me mess around in the mechlab with the trial spider so I'm afraid the answer will have to wait. My apologies.

Don't worry, I grabbed one off my 5D. Here's the leg highlighted, so you can see that it very much has its full leg and the CT does not hang lower than the thigh. My Jagers have way more crotch power than a Spider, tbmfh.

Edited by SamsungNinja, 12 January 2014 - 11:38 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

SamsungNinja, on 12 January 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

Don't worry, I grabbed one off my 5D. Here's the leg highlighted, so you can see that it very much has its full leg and the CT does not hang lower than the thigh. My Jagers have way more crotch power than a Spider, tbmfh.

See now I've seen pictures from in-game where the lower claf up to the knee-cap were part of the "leg" while the rest was CT which had me concerned. I'm glad they corrected it.

Edited by lockwoodx, 12 January 2014 - 01:53 PM.

[wanderer]

Small, fast, and able to move in all kinds of ways on their jets.

Basically, they took the "most annoying to shoot accurately" crown away from Jenners and Commando/Locusts, being smaller than the former and able to jump unlike the latter. That's what drives people nuts.

Watching -2D2 Shadow Hawks gobble them up with Streak fire is nice, though. Ditto anything that can stay in range long enough to pelt them with said Streaks, which are the bane of the little bugs...but being so fast, they can frequently outrun whatever's doing them in.

[Steel Claws]

Warge, on 11 January 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

Hit detection on Spiders still don't work well...

I disagree. What makes spides so hard to kill is that they are usually moving at angles to the player so that there is no weapons convergence (despite all the blathering on this forum about perfect convergence) and are so thin. Shots either only partially hit or miss altogether unless you are using lasers. If they are standing still or are moving in a straiht line to the shooter they take damage just fine. I usually one shot them at that point. There is nothing to fix, you just have to pick your shots at them, use lasers, or streaks. Be;lieve what you will, this is simply the cold hard truth and it's not limited to spiders, all lights enjoy this but few are as thin as a spider.

[DarkDevilDancer]

The recent changes to spiders helped alot you don't see them surviving against five assults anymore, it's still not perfect but their period of being OP is over.

You have two types of spider pilot the one who's relying on poor hit detection to survive they are having a bad time since the change to hit boxes, then you have the spider pilots that played before hsr got borked who know how to quickly change direction and how to jump they are the ones killing you.

Spiders can kill things but usually it's only after bigger mechs have softened the target up.

[Warge]

Steel Claws, on 12 January 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

unless you are using lasers

MLs - my love (as it should be by BT's lore). Even 6*ML can't fully harm Spiders... maybe my ping "150" metters?

Edited by Warge, 12 January 2014 - 06:19 PM.

[Ezazel]

Magnificent *******, on 11 January 2014 - 05:45 PM, said:

No, the people that complain about them are just bad at aiming.

Wrong. Nice trolling though. ;P

[Roadbeer]

Ezazel, on 12 January 2014 - 06:50 PM, said:

Wrong. Nice trolling though. ;P

Actually, he's right, but I agree, it was a good troll.

[Lucian Nostra]

Spiders aren't OP in the sense they dominate the field but they take far to much damage before being put down.

I've been running a 5x Streak Kintaro for a while now and it takes at least 3-4 more volleys to take out a Spider than it does a Jenner or Raven.