4831 replies to this topic

[Erronius]

LOLcust swarm?

[xSleeZyx]

the sixth tier, on 28 April 2017 - 08:08 PM, said:

the thing you don't seem to get is that i'm not saying that flying lights takes no skill. i'm saying that the locust is hardly "underrated". i know what it's like to get my leg blown off in one shot and everything else, because my legs are much bigger than a locust's. it's just using a one-sided argument against one i never made.

as for the "have you ever piloted a locust?" nonsense... it doesn't explain why any other light is better than a locust. it doesn't even really discredit me. it's just opting out of explaining how a jenner or a spider's objectively better.

*for instance, like to argue for my side i could say "well you say that avoiding damage is the skill you're referring to. if the locust were bigger, it would be easier to hit. if i can kill another light in a single alpha, that's an advantage over that light."

They're definetly not easy mode compared to other lights, here's my stats:
Take note aswell that i derped my ACH-prime stats abit by derping around with an 1 err ppc build aswell as lrm4 spl (kinda fully but die easy due the LRM pods r big as heck)

As you can see i barely contribute in locust atm vs my ACH. But it's an learning curve for sure.
You should try em out and you'll see for yourself.
Locust has terrible armor so it might not even exist, aswell as their firepower isn't that great 25 or so alpha on the 1e, vs 36 on ACH. ACH has longer range too + jump yets.
That said even tho these terrible lct stats they're plenty fun to play. And i think i'm going to buy the locust mastery pack for the pirates bane.
1v is probably my fave so far with the 1 lpl.

Edited by xSleeZyx, 01 May 2017 - 08:08 AM.

[DrxAbstract]

Ertur, on 28 April 2017 - 06:03 PM, said:

The fact is, Locusts are easier now than they were before. They were small before, now they are miniscule. Given the fact that the Locust is about half the height, half the width, and half the length of a Jenner, it should weigh 1/8 as much as a Jenner, or just over 4 tons. 1/2 * 1/2 * 1/2 = 1/8. To have the proper weight ratio between the Locust and Jenner (4:7), the Locust should be about 81% as tall, 81% as wide and 81% as long as the Jenner.

I heard people in team chat talking about Locusts: easy mode, best light, 400 damage per match, and so on.

Not sure where your math is coming from, but the Locust weighs 20 Tons versus the Jenner at 35--Nearly twice the tonnage. Which means the Locust should comprise nearly half total area of a Jenner as far as PGI's volumetric scaling goes... It's not difficult.

[xSleeZyx]

Fox With A Shotgun, on 30 April 2017 - 10:44 PM, said:

One of these days we should all form a group and go with (mostly) lolcusts. Would be hilarious to see how the enemy fatmechs respond

Erronius, on 01 May 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

LOLcust swarm?

Kinda like how this was done.

Couln't resist linking:

[the sixth tier]

DrxAbstract, on 01 May 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

Not sure where your math is coming from, but the Locust weighs 20 Tons versus the Jenner at 35--Nearly twice the tonnage. Which means the Locust should comprise nearly half total area of a Jenner as far as PGI's volumetric scaling goes... It's not difficult.

actually, he's a little off. a 20-ton version of a jenner should be roughly 86.94417438899828% the height, width, and depth of a 35-ton one and it would take up roughly 57.14285714285714% as much space.

Edited by the sixth tier, 01 May 2017 - 12:39 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Fox With A Shotgun, on 30 April 2017 - 10:44 PM, said:

One of these days we should all form a group and go with (mostly) lolcusts. Would be hilarious to see how the enemy fatmechs respond

We have before.

In fact, we've also done one where we dropped in locusts that carried a PPC+ engine, and DHS (I'm pretty sure we ran out of tonnage before we could apply any armor. It was hilarious.

My favorite though was a group drop with tons of locusts the day the resizing happened. There were locusts ALL OVER THE PLACE. It drove people insane. I could swear a few assault pilots were frothing at the mouth from the sounds they made over comms, and what the enemy team ones typed in chat.

[Erronius]

The new tech release would be a great time to run a Locust drop. I really want to try SNPPCs on the -1V.

Also, just had this game a few minutes ago. Not 1k+ damage games or anything, but right out of the spawn we all rolled to the first spawn cap on Tourm, played cat and mouse with most of their light lance, then rolled clear into their rear on the other side of the map. A lot of their assaults and heavies were trying to snipe from on high, and I think they weren't quite prepared for SURPRISE LIGHT SWARM. You could see the moment they started to panic and started dropping down to the floor below. Watching an Executioner running from Locusts and getting stuck on terrain while trying to flee over the edge was just the icing on the cake.

If anyone has balls of steel though, it was that PB pilot. He was aggressive AF. o7



EDIT: and the very next game, I get randomly 2-shot by a turret. This game, LOL

Edited by Erronius, 01 May 2017 - 06:25 PM.

[Ertur]

DrxAbstract, on 01 May 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

Not sure where your math is coming from, but the Locust weighs 20 Tons versus the Jenner at 35--Nearly twice the tonnage. Which means the Locust should comprise nearly half total area of a Jenner as far as PGI's volumetric scaling goes... It's not difficult.

Except it is wrong. Take a cube, size 1 whatever on each side. One foot, one meter, one fizzbin, doesn't matter. Make a second cube that is half the height (and obviously half the other sides as well since it is a cube). Make the two cubes out of the same stuff. Cube 2 weighs exactly 1/8 of cube 1. If you make 7 additional copies of cube 2, you can stack them up in a cube that is exactly the same weight and size of cube 1.

That's the math.

The Locust is exactly 4/7 of the mass of the Jenner. They are (supposedly) made out of the same stuff. Neither has a huge cargo hold or a bunch of empty space, so the average density is about the same. But since the Locust is so much smaller in all three dimensions, it ends up being about 4 times too small. It should be a 4 3/8ths ton mech with its current size.

[Ertur]

the sixth tier, on 01 May 2017 - 11:47 AM, said:

actually, he's a little off. a 20-ton version of a jenner should be roughly 86.94417438899828% the height, width, and depth of a 35-ton one and it would take up roughly 57.14285714285714% as much space.

Not sure how you are getting that. What I did was look at 4/7 (or 20/35) to get the ratio of the weight. Since I am assuming the mass per cubic unit of size is approximately equal, I'm not worrying about that. I don't know the actual height, width, or depth of either the Jenner or Locust, so I am assuming that a Jenner is one Jenner high, one Jenner deep, and one Jenner wide. Which seems reasonable. Now, if I had a proper calculator I would just take the cube root of 4/7, but since I don't have one of those I had to do some napkin calculations. In writing this post I double-checked and found that I was wrong: .83 ^3 is much closer to 4/7 than .81 is. So, a mech weighing 20 tons should be .83 Jenners high, .83 Jenners deep and .83 Jenners wide.

An objection was raised that some lore said a Shadow Hawk is as tall as an Atlas. There's actually no problem with that so long as it is skinnier and thinner enough that multiplying the height, width, and depth comes up with a cubic measure that is in the proportion of 55/100 of what the Atlas's measurements would be.

Edited by Ertur, 01 May 2017 - 07:59 PM.

[Imapropirate314159265]

B3R3ND, on 28 April 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

Do you pilot locust (often) or do you "just" run into them?

If you do pilot them frequently, you should know - if not, i can assure you the locust is not a mech you just pick up and destroy any (light) mech you come across. Actually, if you dont know how to pilot them most likely you will get killed real quick if you run into another (light) mech, provided that other pilot is not a complete potato.
The locust is one of the few mechs that will really put you to work and if you do so, you will be rewarded. The locust is all about skill, not just the mech...

B3R3ND, on 28 April 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

"Just" was meant in a few ways:
1. You comment the locust without piloting them, that means you only encounter them and thus know half the story
2 You go head on with a locust pilot, only really good or really stupid locust pilots take on other lights - the rest usually runs away back to their team. Assume you are facing a competent locust pilot if he decides to meet you in a dogfight.

Perhaps the locust is popular, do take into accoubt its the cheapest and most affordable mech available. Besides that, most locust pilots just squirrel and "secure" kills and / or get killed wihout contributing significantly ( a bit scouting or capping), i rarely come across competent locust pilots or light pilots in general that put up a thrilling fight and im pretty sure my piloting skill is far from the best light pilotsout there.

For science sake, please pickup a locust and see for your self how good this mech really is.

So I pretty much only pilot Locusts (specifically the 1E 6xSPL build) and they're double edged swords: easy to do damage but also really easy to die in. Hard part is shifting the scales to doing more damage and less dying, and usually that involves knowing when and what to fight and when to run away. The locust is fast enough to take advantage of tactical mistakes on the other team, like leaving behind a vulnerable assault with no rear armour. And it's all in the approach: using cover, breaking sightlines, going after isolated mechs and targets of opportunity. Teams with good coordination are harder to break into, but sometimes poking at flanks and running the hell away is enough to make them chase the squirrel. They're a bit of a glass cannon, but one you have to use up close whilst going full tilt.

As for lights I prefer not to fight them because it's easy to get caught in a knife fight and miss all of his buddies coming to back him up. Unless I know I have backup or it's for sure one on one. Better use of my time to take out assaults out of position or harassing and turning flanks.

Survivability imo feels pretty much the same now as it was pre-rescaling. Usually always die after losing a leg both before and now. Before the locust was bigger but had leg quirks, now the quirks are much less so feels like it balances out. But damn, never really appreciated how small they are now until I spectated from a heavy or assault.

Screenshot is from a game where I did a wide flank and took out an lone assault and harassed stragglers that either fell behind out of position.



And I'm not kidding on the just locusts bit...

Edited by Imapropirate314159265, 01 May 2017 - 08:45 PM.

[the sixth tier]

whoops, you're right. i was able to find a cube root calculator online and it's real close to .83.

Edited by the sixth tier, 01 May 2017 - 08:49 PM.

[DrxAbstract]

Ertur, on 01 May 2017 - 07:20 PM, said:

Except it is wrong. Take a cube, size 1 whatever on each side. One foot, one meter, one fizzbin, doesn't matter. Make a second cube that is half the height (and obviously half the other sides as well since it is a cube). Make the two cubes out of the same stuff. Cube 2 weighs exactly 1/8 of cube 1. If you make 7 additional copies of cube 2, you can stack them up in a cube that is exactly the same weight and size of cube 1.

That's the math.

The Locust is exactly 4/7 of the mass of the Jenner. They are (supposedly) made out of the same stuff. Neither has a huge cargo hold or a bunch of empty space, so the average density is about the same. But since the Locust is so much smaller in all three dimensions, it ends up being about 4 times too small. It should be a 4 3/8ths ton mech with its current size.

Your math is still wrong because there is nothing anywhere that says or shows the Locust is 50% of the Jenner's height, length and width... Nothing, i.e. You made it up. I can take fabricated numerics and throw out figures supporting my argument and try to sound like I'm making a legitimate claim too... Except anyone that knows otherwise will spot it real quick and call me out on it, much like our current situation.

PGI released a picture that was a visual representation of re-scaled Mechs side-by-side on a standardized grid, which is the only bonafide size-proofing we actually have. Using that as a baseline, you can easily see the Locust's length, width and height are nowhere near 1/2 the Jenner's.

This is also ignoring the fact you're not dealing with cubes that have a fixed, uniform geometry but the total surface area of a geometric amalgamation possessing several points of a varying length, width and height, which completely invalidates any attempt at using basic geometric shapes as an appropriate sizing methodology or proper example--It doesnt matter if it's as flat as a pancake, as tall as a skyscraper and thin as a pencil as long as the Locust's total surface area is 57% of a Jenner's... End of discussion.

[Old-dirty B]

Dont know why we are comparing jenners with locust, the locust is not a baby jenner... But to add a FACT to this discussion the locust has 57% of the jenners armor and several components are "so weak" that it can be one-shotted (which happens quite often, but mostly because the pilot / me made an error, like to agressive or tunnel vision etc), just standing still is already mostly a death sentence...
It maybe small and speedy but its also very fragile. The speed and size are advantegious but far from enough to keep the average pilot alive on the battlefield, it mostly depends on the pilot skill to use these advantages to overcome its main weakness, durability.

You could call it a glass canon if you will, one that has to get really close to danger to contribute to the fight.

Edited by B3R3ND, 02 May 2017 - 02:03 AM.

[loopala]

want to ruin a locust's day in an assault?

learn the reverse J hook and to aim into the turn not behind it.

when you are getting shot MOVE! locust pilots live for that LRM assault that just stands there

also don't get stranded all alone try to stick within 300m of the team. locusts hate when 3 or more mechs gang up on them

[IraqiWalker]

loopala, on 02 May 2017 - 05:46 AM, said:

want to ruin a locust's day in an assault?

learn the reverse J hook and to aim into the turn not behind it.

when you are getting shot MOVE! locust pilots live for that LRM assault that just stands there

also don't get stranded all alone try to stick within 300m of the team. locusts hate when 3 or more mechs gang up on them

Literally this!

[Fox With A Shotgun]

loopala, on 02 May 2017 - 05:46 AM, said:

want to ruin a locust's day in an assault?

learn the reverse J hook and to aim into the turn not behind it.

when you are getting shot MOVE! locust pilots live for that LRM assault that just stands there

also don't get stranded all alone try to stick within 300m of the team. locusts hate when 3 or more mechs gang up on them

But Fatmech pilots don't want to learn, no sir. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

You don't see lights crying about being absolutely destroyed when they get caught out of position or being caught in an ambush. They get destroyed, and move on. Learn from their mistakes. Because a light pilot knows that to be a light pilot, one needs to git gud.

We need a light mech revolution! Cast off the shackles of your fatmech oppressors, and retake the means of point production! Light mechs of the world, unite!

[TheFourthAlly]

I recently put 4spl and 2 mgs on my PB, instead of the 4ml I had before... *insert maniacal laughter here*

That is so fantastic to play with. It's like arming a mechanical Roadrunner with a set of knives and tell it to go stab Uruk-Hai in the butt, make the big buggers squeal.

Meep Meep!

I need to get the 6spl 1E now and see if I can make that work for me.

Thank you anyone who ever posted on the joy of the Locust anywhere on these forums or in other places. I have perfectly good fun with my Hunchies, Warhammers and Timberwolves when it comes to shooting people in the face, and even the ACH I got are pretty sneaky buggers when they work for me, but Locusts with spls... I don't care if I die early a lot, when you don't it's hilarious to play.

[DeeHawk]

Calcualting relationships between different mechs and their sizes, is nothing more than a math exercise. It has very little importance to the balancing of the game. It's just realism. Realism should have the second lowest priority in game balance, right after lore.

If you choose to make realism a strong factor in your design, everything else must be adapted to it, in this case, everything else should be adapted to the sizes of the mechs. And since they did a rescale, it tells us mech sizing is a tool they use for balance, which eliminates the possibility of realistic proportions.

I'd guess they look first and foremost at over and under performers. And while Locusts get a lot of 'stolen' kills, they also often go out with less than 50 damage done. Your collective personal experiences counts naught against their statistics.

[Burning2nd]

STOLEN kills!??!

maybe thats how you run your locust but when i run mine... I go out and assassinate who ever they leave behind.... (and then some)

From my point of view... you firing lrms @ 2000m because im holding a solid target is more insulting then anything else...
and you'll get a ear full about it 2

#1 your lrms flying over the team is a good indication for them to turn away..
#2 since all of you freebirth rejects dont use your mic, I bet on the fact that my target isnt going to have much time to type out HELP ME!
#3 it would be more useful to me while im murdering much larger mechs, that you used your mic to say.. "hey burning you have multiply inbounds"



50 damage in a locust? I think you need to go back to heavy's... I average 500 with a few kills and a few assist...

and ill challenge anyone trying to run a 6sml laser/pluse or med laser build to a duel

I can very quickly prove why this is not good

[DeeHawk]

Burnin2nd, on 03 May 2017 - 12:51 AM, said:

STOLEN kills!??!

maybe thats how you run your locust but when i run mine... I go out and assassinate who ever they leave behind.... (and then some)

From my point of view... you firing lrms @ 2000m because im holding a solid target is more insulting then anything else...
and you'll get a ear full about it 2

#1 your lrms flying over the team is a good indication for them to turn away..
#2 since all of you freebirth rejects dont use your mic, I bet on the fact that my target isnt going to have much time to type out HELP ME!
#3 it would be more useful to me while im murdering much larger mechs, that you used your mic to say.. "hey burning you have multiply inbounds"



50 damage in a locust? I think you need to go back to heavy's... I average 500 with a few kills and a few assist...

and ill challenge anyone trying to run a 6sml laser/pluse or med laser build to a duel

I can very quickly prove why this is not good

We're talking about the balance of the locust, not how well you play it. Statistics are measured averages.

However, lights and especially locusts are often the ones to take out weak targets in the back and finish off the enemies who refuse to share their remaining structure as armor on the front line. Those are the kills I refer to as 'stolen'.
If you get solo kills on every killing blow you get, well then good for you.

Edited by DeeHawk, 03 May 2017 - 08:01 AM.