137 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Hotthedd, on 14 January 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

So... what we have ended up with is two games: One of the meat of the bell curve playing each other and one of mixed new players/high Elo players?

Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.


I am afraid you are on an island.

lol

You mean like THIS Island?

AKA Staten Island! Population 470,000+

[Bhael Fire]

Abivard, on 14 January 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

Fluffy is right, most 'new' players aren't new, Anyone not seeing the same names in drops is someone who doesn't look at the names or can't remember them for more than a minute.

When a game starts to hide info like amount of players, it is because they have something to hide.

I take screen shots of pretty much every match I play, specifically looking for trends in matches. I rarely see the same names in those screens.

If you are seeing the same names frequently that means you are either at the bottom or the top of the Elo pool.

[Hotthedd]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 January 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

You mean like THIS Island?

AKA Staten Island! Population 470,000+

I was thinking Manhattan.

[Abivard]

no, joe, you are on this island:

[Joseph Mallan]

1.7 Million residents there!

I could be fairly happy on an Island like those!

[Mudhutwarrior]

I see a lot of experts on ELO/MM works but never any documentation. Sorry but until someone posts documentation the guy still in starter matches has the same weight of opinion as the supposed experts.

[Joseph Mallan]

Abivard, on 14 January 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

no, joe, you are on this island:

You can see me behind the tree? I was trying to be discrete!

Mudhutwarrior, on 14 January 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

I see a lot of experts on ELO/MM works but never any documentation. Sorry but until someone posts documentation the guy still in starter matches has the same weight of opinion as the supposed experts.

Sure he does. But he has more to prove being a rookie!

[Almond Brown]

stjobe, on 14 January 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

stuff

This has the obvious disadvantage of putting completely new players in the same match as 18-month veterans, and really low-Elo players in the same match as really high-Elo players - as long as the average team Elo is within parameters, it's "balanced".

more stuff

It is only disadvantageous if one side has more of one of the player types mentioned. If both teams get 5% Elite and 50% New, then the ultimate outcome can come in 2 forms.

Weights disparity, and it happens as we have been told many times, OR the Team that best informs, herds and gets the most of their 50% of the New.

Low or High in a mix is not an issue. The amount of Mix is the key.

P.S. I see names many times of Forum goers who are Founders but have the Badges turned off. Why is that do you think. To hide something that might scare the children perhaps?

[Bhael Fire]

Mudhutwarrior, on 14 January 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

I see a lot of experts on ELO/MM works ...

*sigh*

ELO is an acronym for Electric Light Orchestra.

The Elo scoring system, however, is named after Arpad Elo. His name is not an acronym for anything, it's just his last name.

[Abivard]

The only numbers PGI gives us, are the amount of people logged on to the website.

If we use this as a sample selection indicative of growth. The number has stayed in the same range since early open beta.

Outside of key advents that cause firestorms i.e ecm, clan mechs. this number hovers right at about 250 registered and 900 guests, If the game population was growing, we would see an increase in these numbers.

However, if the actual active player base was shrinking, we would not necessarily see as much of a decline as we know many players who have posted that they are not playing until they read about improvements in the game.

Hy-Brasil is sinking:

[Ghogiel]

stjobe, on 14 January 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

Joe has a point in the middle of his usual gung-ho; the matchmaker is only concerned with the teams' average Elo, not individual player Elo.

Unless you mean premades, no. In premades the Elo is averaged between the players and work as a single entity for the sorting process.

It works like this> there is a target Elo picked for a match. Then players (or groups) closest to that target are grabbed for the match. The longer the search goes on the wider the thresholds (everyone assumes it expands in both directions) get for allowing players with Elo further from the target to get in there.

If you are high Elo the MM will give you failed to find matches up to dozens of times in a row because out of all the matches going on the range never expanded high enough to drag them into one of those matches.


So what we can be pretty confidant of is that there is definitely a cut off where it doesn't just grab low level player and high level player and say there ya go. We don't know what the maximum range the MM can expand to on either side of the target Elo for the match, and it would be very nice thing to know.

Almond Brown, on 14 January 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

P.S. I see names many times of Forum goers who are Founders but have the Badges turned off. Why is that do you think. To hide something that might scare the children perhaps?

Because we are so sick of turning the founders tag back on everytime we change the options. Which is what happens. You make any change to options and it turns off the founder tag.

Every game session it will get turned off due to the likelihood of getting river city night.

Edited by Ghogiel, 14 January 2014 - 09:52 AM.

[Hotthedd]

Bhael Fire, on 14 January 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

*sigh*

ELO is an acronym for Electric Light Orchestra.

The Elo scoring system, however, is named after Arpad Elo. His name is not an acronym for anything, it's just his last name.

The way MM has been working, I propose that it is plausible to believe that PGI has Jeff Lynne locked in a cage, forcing him to randomly assign players to drops. Thus, MW:O would be using ELO for the matchmaker.

[Mister Blastman]

Doing a few mid-day drops, I have observed way more nubs than I think I have ever seen before.

Conclusion: All the long-timers are quitting the game.

PGI better do something, fast.

[Joseph Mallan]

Almond Brown, on 14 January 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

It is only disadvantageous if one side has more of one of the player types mentioned. If both teams get 5% Elite and 50% New, then the ultimate outcome can come in 2 forms.

Weights disparity, and it happens as we have been told many times, OR the Team that best informs, herds and gets the most of their 50% of the New.

Low or High in a mix is not an issue. The amount of Mix is the key.

P.S. I see names many times of Forum goers who are Founders but have the Badges turned off. Why is that do you think. To hide something that might scare the children perhaps?

Cause for some reason my Badge turns off on its own accord seemingly on a whim.

[Ghogiel]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 January 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

Cause for some reason my Badge turns off on its own accord seemingly on a whim.

Sometimes just patching has turned it off for me.

[BarHaid]

Bhael Fire, on 14 January 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

If you are seeing the same names frequently that means you are either at the bottom or the top of the Elo pool.

That matches my experience. I've been slowly increasing my K/D and W/L ratios, so I assume my Elo score is going up as well. Just this week I started getting kicked in the teeth a lot more in games, and the names of my lance mates are all of the sudden new and confusing. Last month I was seeing a lot of the same names.

For what it's worth, I don't want consistently balanced matches. given the lack of variety in game modes, a roflstomp now and then (going either way) at least gives you something to complain think about.

[IraqiWalker]

Elo is still in effect, however, weight matching takes precedence over it. As such you're running into new players with veterans because the weights are dictating it that way. I'd say what weight you bring into the MM makes a bigger difference than your elo.

[Deuce Hxe]

Hotthedd, on 14 January 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

Okay.
If the population is not low, then Elo is broken or has been stealth-scrapped. It is NOT working as intended. Why wouldn't PGI announce this?...

PGI does not announce things. I want to add more constructive comments and feedback to this conversation, but it has all been said before. The publisher is ruling the day for this game, and that means making money is the bottom line. It is amazing that the game has made it this for on 2.5 game modes. People want a mech (why is "mech" a misspelling in the forums in a game about mechs?) simulator, even if they have to suffer through many shortfalls and missed deadlines.

Where will the game go from here? What can we expect from a game that is about money first and content second, always?

[Hotthedd]

IraqiWalker, on 14 January 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

Elo is still in effect, however, weight matching takes precedence over it. As such you're running into new players with veterans because the weights are dictating it that way. I'd say what weight you bring into the MM makes a bigger difference than your elo.

Source please.

I have seen absolutely ZERO evidence, either empirical or otherwise that suggests that any matches are using tonnage as a factor in the matchmaker.

Deuce Hxe, on 14 January 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

PGI does not announce things. I want to add more constructive comments and feedback to this conversation, but it has all been said before. The publisher is ruling the day for this game, and that means making money is the bottom line. It is amazing that the game has made it this for on 2.5 game modes. People want a mech (why is "mech" a misspelling in the forums in a game about mechs?) simulator, even if they have to suffer through many shortfalls and missed deadlines.

Where will the game go from here? What can we expect from a game that is about money first and content second, always?

Once upon a time, many, many moons ago, PGI actually communicated with the players.

[Triordinant]

Bhael Fire, on 14 January 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

The best matches are those filled entirely with solo players. It allows MM to function more accurately because with solo players there's more granularity, and therefore less disparity between each player's Elo score.

Yet another reason to have a premade-free, PUG-only queue. A much better experience, especially for new players.