61 replies to this topic

[lsp]

Play in a team on TS, there's how to increase your LRm damage.

Edited by lsp, 15 January 2014 - 12:20 PM.

[Prezimonto]

All you have to do is look at the damage numbers. Even a good LRM player struggles to pull over a 100 damage out of each ton of ammo, and it's not uncommon to have less than 70 damage per ton of ammo if you've gotten a bad map/support/facing good players/facing ECM/fail at fire control. Even under awful conditions AC's manage better damage per ton of ammo, and mechs like the catapult that have dedicated pods for missiles are nearly always better off trading out the missiles for other weapons.

Now add in that 100 damage (out of 198 possible) is also spread all over a mech with large bunches of missiles. I wouldn't mind this (in fact I prefer it) except that LRMs (contrary to popular belief) are not easy weapons to use in MWO, especially compared to PPC/ACs. I have a hard time wrapping my head around why "skill" is so often confused with "the ability to put a pixel cross hair over the pixel enemy and click the mouse". That's A skill, certainly not the only relevant skill. LRM's take skill in terms of positioning and timing much more greatly than direct fire weapons.

In short: Bone targeting enforces damage spread around enemies (instead of coring CT's out) when boats fire... this should be able to give the dev's some space to increase the missile acceleration or other tweaks to make LRM's more viable in general.

[Ngamok]

Lyoto Machida, on 15 January 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

Which mechs can't take AMS?

Cicada X-5 !! I win !!

[Barantor]

Khobai, on 15 January 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

if you have to spot the enemies yourself, youre not realizing its potential anyway... because you can only really spot for yourself at 500m or less, which is half the range the weapon is supposed to be effective at.

LRMs are fine < 500m. The problem is theyre supposed to be fine out to 1000m, and they just dont work at that range because of ECM, lack of spotting, and slow missile speed.

500m or less? Don't have a tag and never play on alpine/caustic/tourmaline?

Tag against ecm, advanced sensor range, bap and you are pushing your own spotting out far enough to get more use. Doing all that does make you a dedicated LRM mech though, which has it's own type of play.

If you are talking about artemis, then that is another bag of pennies.

[focuspark]

MadcatX, on 15 January 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

I believe that's in the works

What was posted was that launchers would be either artemis or not, but mixing them was not going to be allowed; in order to remove the lock-on bonus from SSRM Artemis gives today. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't believe I am.

[Khobai]

Quote

500m or less? Don't have a tag and never play on alpine/caustic/tourmaline?

the map pool is so big now that you only play on those maps a small amount of the time. and its not worth toting lrms which are ineffective on most other maps just to have small chance of playing on a map theyre effective on.

lrms should be universally good on all maps.

[Goose]

Any time a thread starts up about ECM being OP, the discussion is magically negated by some Gentleman claiming it's needed to counter LRMs …'Cause they work so well on two or three of the maps, out of all of them.

I have an agenda with ECM: Buffing LRMs would be contrary to that.

Good Day.

[Krasnovian]

LRMs are, in general, in a good place right now but only really for boating (I've been running BLR-1S w/ 50 tubes lately) a single launcher really does almost no good due to AMS being available to nearly every mech and their effective range being relatively short with a max range that is shorter than all but one AC, both PPCs and comparable even to Large Lasers. If you realize that LRMs are really only effective out to about 600-700 meters and then only against the slowest most exposed targets and on top 1 or 2 AMS in range will tear many of those missiles up. Add in the nearly 200m minimum range and now the LRM has an effective range consisting of 400-500m roughly equal to a M-Laser, a brawlers weapon.

That said LRMs are really close to being effective, with a few tweaks they could become something other than wasted tonnage.

A) LRMs need to be long range weapons, not the longest range but considering an ERPPC does damage out to 1620 and ACs can go past that, 1500 meters would be a good spot less would be ok more would be nice.

B AMS LOVE the idea that AMS brings the missile warning though a good alternative would be that you dont get the warning until missiles are 200m out no matter what range the missiles are fired from, good for balance too since all targets get nearly the same warining

C) Speed Missiles should accelerate continually as they move downrange up to a slightly higher max speed (10-20%)

D) Turning Rate should do the opposite as the missile accelerates they should turn more slowly but starting from a higher rate

Options C&D are I'm sure much more complicated to implement but would give more realistic feel as well as a little more effectiveness at the ends of the effective range, while A&B would add effectiveness for relatively little effort hopefully not enough to make LRMs OP again

Edited by Krasnovian, 15 January 2014 - 03:03 PM.

[Sephlock]

focuspark, on 15 January 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

What was posted was that launchers would be either artemis or not, but mixing them was not going to be allowed; in order to remove the lock-on bonus from SSRM Artemis gives today. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't believe I am.

It's actually to fleece players out of more c-bills, but that's neither here nor there .

[Sybreed]

Krasnovian, on 15 January 2014 - 03:01 PM, said:

LRMs are, in general, in a good place right now but only really for boating

Good job contradicting yourself. Any weapon, when boated, can become viable. If LRMs are only in a good place when boated, then the weapon sucks.

I won't be happy until my Trebuchet becomes a menace on the field instead of a running joke.

[FupDup]

Sybreed, on 15 January 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:

Good job contradicting yourself. Any weapon, when boated, can become viable. If LRMs are only in a good place when boated, then the weapon sucks.

I won't be happy until my Trebuchet becomes a menace on the field instead of a running joke.

To be fair, the Trebuchet would still be a joke no matter how good LRMs are. Most of the 55 ton mediums are hilariously superior at nearly every job as the Treb.

[MadcatX]

Sybreed, on 15 January 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:

Good job contradicting yourself. Any weapon, when boated, can become viable. If LRMs are only in a good place when boated, then the weapon sucks.

I won't be happy until my Trebuchet becomes a menace on the field instead of a running joke.

Blowing up other mechs (legitimately, not just getting the last killing shot) in a running joke is fun

[Sybreed]

MadcatX, on 15 January 2014 - 03:33 PM, said:

Blowing up other mechs (legitimately, not just getting the last killing shot) in a running joke is fun

not easy in a Treb

Usually, it's the 3 Medium lasers that deal the last hit...

FupDup, on 15 January 2014 - 03:28 PM, said:

To be fair, the Trebuchet would still be a joke no matter how good LRMs are. Most of the 55 ton mediums are hilariously superior at nearly every job as the Treb.

Now I want to create another hardpoints thread, you happy!?!

Edited by Sybreed, 15 January 2014 - 03:37 PM.

[Almond Brown]

How about we just reduce the "Incoming Warning Time" IWT to half that of the Range at which they are fired?

So, if an LRM Mech fires at 600m, the warning only kicks in at 300m from the initially locked target.

At 400m, the enemy would effectively get little, to no warning.

[Prezimonto]

Khobai, on 15 January 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

the map pool is so big now that you only play on those maps a small amount of the time. and its not worth toting lrms which are ineffective on most other maps just to have small chance of playing on a map theyre effective on.

lrms should be universally good on all maps.

They're sort of okay on Alpine if you can take the ultra high ground and have a spotter and/or tag on an arm you can aim down....

Goose, on 15 January 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

Any time a thread starts up about ECM being OP, the discussion is magically negated by some Gentleman claiming it's needed to counter LRMs …'Cause they work so well on two or three of the maps, out of all of them.

I have an agenda with ECM: Buffing LRMs would be contrary to that.

Good Day.

That's part of the reason I think LRM's should get bone targeting... so we can do away with the ECM team stealth in favor of just longer lock times and perhaps some increased scatter. ie...nerf lrms to nerf ecm to make lrms more viable. How strange a game this has become. Stupid convoluted band-aides instead of actual balance.

[Lyoto Machida]

Ngamok, on 15 January 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

Cicada X-5 !! I win !!

Never heard of it.

[627]

as a survivor of lurmpocalypse I'm not sure LRMs need a buff...

And looking back at the games this week there was plenty of rain in the air.

If you start to buff LRMs with speed or with removing the warning or anything I'd like to see the TAG reduced to its former range of only 450m - this would make selftagging still useful if you're in fighting range and longrange would need teamplay.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Pretty funny this thread. Seems after reading it the idea I get is more people want and easy button.

My reasoning? I posted about tactics and no one responded to them. So please PGI do not touch a thing on Lrms.

[Ngamok]

Lyoto Machida, on 15 January 2014 - 10:10 PM, said:

Never heard of it.

/sadface

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Mudhutwarrior, on 15 January 2014 - 10:17 AM, said:

Well in my view those with no skills want to increase the effectiveness of the most no skill weapon in the game. LRMs are just fine for the intended purpose and the only skill required is effective team deployment and use. If properly positioned and coordinated LRMs can be used to devastating effect. Thing is even amongst premades teams I rarely see them put in to practice. If you study Russian artillery tactics you may get a hint at it. Its all in positioning and coordination and timed fire. Just pressing R cheeking range and letting fly doesn't cut it.

http://www.allworldw...by-Richert.html

I don't know what you are trying to say here, it takes different skills to pug with LRMs for example.

Mudhutwarrior, on 16 January 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

Pretty funny this thread. Seems after reading it the idea I get is more people want and easy button.

My reasoning? I posted about tactics and no one responded to them. So please PGI do not touch a thing on Lrms.

There are plenty of threads that post about LRM tactics though:
http://mwomercs.com/...ge-suggestions/
http://mwomercs.com/...m-commandments/
http://mwomercs.com/...a-how-to-guide/
http://mwomercs.com/...1999-lrm-guide/
http://mwomercs.com/...o-properly-use/


And from using them it's not an easy button, but maybe too user friendly? I dunno. Anyway, I wouldn't mind looking at making some changes to them in a testing environment, and due to RL stuff, I just remembered I missed the scheduled tests today