161 replies to this topic

[Ngamok]

Ryoken, on 18 January 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

Erm entering an online game to play by yourself may be absolutely wrong in the first place?

So yeah, you and your like-minded people better stick to a single player game like solitaire!

Edit: Maybe you try the "Testing grounds" game mode, you can enter it and play by yourself all day long!

And you just don't try to put your nonsense idea of "a single player multi player online game" on others okay?

Edit: So yeah maybe two queues is the only solution.

F2P plays thrive on the casuals sorry. WoW probably gets more money from those people than the hard cores because of the sheer volume they have. If WoW cut their casuals by making it mandatory to group up much like EQ1 did, they would lose so many people.

[Amsro]

Ngamok, on 22 January 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

I understand what you mean but with 500+ active players, that's just over 41 - 12 man groups you can make spread over all hours of the day. I know you know how many people you see pugging and trust me, you think those people will stick around? Nope. They will quit because there are many more people who prefer to be on their own rather than interact with other people when playing games.

Pugs will have a better playing experience then the current AssaultWarriorOnline hulk smash games.

[PropagandaWar]

RapierE01, on 16 January 2014 - 02:59 PM, said:

if it will be Premades vs Premades its okay but a coordinated 12 Man Group which drop against Pug's without any coordination or maybe Gam experience will kill the fun.

It has driven more people away? Why? Pugstomping is such a cool game so we all want it right?

Go play 12 vs 12. Oh wait they are coordinated too and could kill you right?

Less than you think. It has been stated by PGI themselves that Pre's outweigh pugs. Heck sometimes there are only 5 of us on. You either suck or you don't. I'm sorry but I win more Pugs than I lose. In fact I win more in pugs than Pre's so all arguments to me pertaining to the issue are invalid. Pugs cry if they get stomped saying its pre's (Even though They do crying when Im in a pre and guys like Roadbeeer are two in the same group and we get kicked to the curb and lose). They cry about tons of stuff. ITS A TEAM GAME FOR TEAMS. IT wont be all pugs vs pre's it will be Premade Cupcake with Pug Pudding Filler in the Middle!

Oh and just a side note. I do 12's as well. And happy to say I suck at it. So BLEH! to you

Edited by PropagandaWar, 22 January 2014 - 03:57 PM.

[Ghogiel]

PropagandaWar, on 22 January 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

You either suck or you don't.

This.

All good players get good results.

They will top the scoreboard 9/10 rounds whether on a win or loss, in a premade or solo.

[Roadbeer]

PropagandaWar, on 22 January 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

it will be Premade Cupcake with Pug Pudding Filler in the Middle!

I'm stealing this

[Sandpit]

Roland, on 22 January 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

Another explanation is that Paul's explanation didn't really make sense, and was just handwaving.

It also failed to take into account a few pretty key things, like how new players being thrown in at average level Elo screws stuff up, since they would apparently get matched against high Elo players despite the fact that their equipment and skills were nowhere close to equal. So while the Elo numbers might suggest balance, the real take-away is that the Elo numbers in those cases are garbage and not at all useful for matchmaking purposes.

Ngamok, on 22 January 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

I know you know how many people you see pugging and trust me,

No, no you don't, neither does anyone else who likes to say "I know it's true" when dealing with ANY statistical data regarding this game. Why?
Well because you don't HAVE the statistical data. Just like in the example Paul gave about ELO that I quoted. It's amazing how the factual data directly and completely refutes all the forumites' "factual I see it happening"

[Zerberus]

Ngamok, on 22 January 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

I understand what you mean but with 500+ active players, that's just over 41 - 12 man groups you can make spread over all hours of the day. I know you know how many people you see pugging and trust me, you think those people will stick around? Nope. They will quit because there are many more people who prefer to be on their own rather than interact with other people when playing games.

If you honestly believe that ANY serious company on this planet would continue to be in business for more than a few weeks with only around 500 customers (or worse in this case "players", of which less than half are probably actual "customers"), then there is nothing that I, economics professors, business consultants, or psychiatrists can do for you.

Sandpit, on 22 January 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

No, no you don't, neither does anyone else who likes to say "I know it's true" when dealing with ANY statistical data regarding this game. Why?
Well because you don't HAVE the statistical data. Just like in the example Paul gave about ELO that I quoted. It's amazing how the factual data directly and completely refutes all the forumites' "factual I see it happening"

QFT

Edited by Zerberus, 22 January 2014 - 08:20 PM.

[Ngamok]

Zerberus, on 22 January 2014 - 08:17 PM, said:

If you honestly believe that ANY serious company on this planet would continue to be in business for more than a few weeks with only around 500 customers (or worse in this case "players", of which less than half are probably actual "customers"), then there is nothing that I, economics professors, business consultants, or psychiatrists can do for you.



QFT

Because you know, they are the only 500 people playing. No one else is around I guess.

[Zerberus]

Again, if you truly believe that, you need help finding your way back to reality, because 500 players of which only 250 are paying couldn`t even keep the servers up for a month, much less pay rent, salaries, et al.

Much less purchase a license extension from Microsoft that probably had a seven or even 8 figure pricetag on it.

Even a ******* newspaper stand needs at LEAST1000-1500 customers DAILY just to stay afloat....depending on where exactly it is. And you`re honestly implying that 250 people paying in 20 bucks maybe once, twice a month are keeping PGI afloat?

That is, with all due respect, far beyond delusional and dissociated from reality....

[Roadbeer]

Zerberus, on 22 January 2014 - 11:18 PM, said:

Again, if you truly believe that, you need help finding your way back to reality, because 500 players of which only 250 are paying couldn`t even keep the servers up for a month, much less pay rent, salaries, et al.

Much less purchase a license extension from Microsoft that probably had a seven or even 8 figure pricetag on it.

Even a ******* newspaper stand needs at LEAST1000-1500 customers DAILY just to stay afloat....depending on where exactly it is. And you`re honestly implying that 250 people paying in 20 bucks maybe once, twice a month are keeping PGI afloat?

That is, with all due respect, far beyond delusional and dissociated from reality....

Dude, remember, you're talking to people who think that the $5mil from the Founders packs was a lot of money.

[Ngamok]

Zerberus, on 22 January 2014 - 11:18 PM, said:

Again, if you truly believe that, you need help finding your way back to reality, because 500 players of which only 250 are paying couldn`t even keep the servers up for a month, much less pay rent, salaries, et al.

Much less purchase a license extension from Microsoft that probably had a seven or even 8 figure pricetag on it.

Even a ******* newspaper stand needs at LEAST1000-1500 customers DAILY just to stay afloat....depending on where exactly it is. And you`re honestly implying that 250 people paying in 20 bucks maybe once, twice a month are keeping PGI afloat?

That is, with all due respect, far beyond delusional and dissociated from reality....

You actually need to think about what I was replying to Roadbeer for. He said house-marik.com or whatever has 500+ active players so I told him that his 500+ group of players is 44 some odd 12 man groups. The reply I said this to was:

"Say you start with four, the a couple guys come on, you have six, few more come on, you work up to 12. Then someone has to leave, your group doesn't break until that 12th player comes on, you can operate with 11. Way it stands now, you have to break your group apart until you can get that 12th player again."

So he shouldn't have problems forming 12 man groups to play since they have 500+ active players split on all hours of the day.

I do not for the life of me try to figure out where I said there were only 500 fricking customers only. I was only responding to his situation where he said it was hard to keep 12 mans going but he said earlier they have 500+ active players. So step off my *** or keep making **** up.

[Imperius]

Roadbeer, on 16 January 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

Sorry, but the ability to play with as many of my friends as possible trumps the hurt feelings of those who can't be bothered to form a group.

It may be cold, but the removal of min/max group forming has driven more people from this game than any other misstep since inception.

I agree 100% but adding VOIP to the game before this change gets added would soften the negative impact this will have on the smaller groups. If everyone could communicate then the so called pre-made will only have an advantage over pugs/small groups only by strats and accustomed to each others play styles. Communication will be better but at least both teams can "TALK" not one talks and the other tries or doesn't type at all.

[PropagandaWar]

Roadbeer, on 22 January 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

I'm stealing this

I just shot and killed my copyright lawyer so it's all your now

[Ryoken]

Harmatia, on 19 January 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

Ryoken, on 18 January 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

Erm entering an online game to play by yourself may be absolutely wrong in the first place?
So yeah, you and your like-minded people better stick to a single player game like solitaire!
Edit: Maybe you try the "Testing grounds" game mode, you can enter it and play by yourself all day long!
And you just don't try to put your nonsense idea of "a single player multi player online game" on others okay?

Edit: So yeah maybe two queues is the only solution. <<<------

You need to twist my words to make a point? I never said anything about playing "by myself", obviously I'm not. To misread that you have to be completely ******* ********. Or you simply twisted wording. Do I need to rework it for you? Maybe write in pink crayon and scan my masterpiece? Would that make it easier to ******* comprehend?

My response was mainly directed at the holier than thou attitude too many people playing MWO have towards anything that is not in line with their own interests. You in particular would rather sacrifice population diversity and size in favour of a system that alienates every group but one. And for really no other reason than it is your wish to deny other people a difference in team formation. Or so your attitude is written.

Here let me try it again: I'd prefer an option to have MWO determine whom I'm playing with and construct the opposing team in the same fashion as an alternative to premade groups of any size. Does that work for you? Let me know, because I'll draw a picture if meaning is out of reach. Thanks.

As much as I would like to see a drawn picture with as much temperament as your blind raging lets hope for...

I do not think you have to draw it in pink crayon, but I suggest yourself to learn to read and comprehend. (Even if I love pink! )

[Zerberus]

Ngamok, on 23 January 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

You actually need to think about what I was replying to Roadbeer for. He said house-marik.com or whatever has 500+ active players so I told him that his 500+ group of players is 44 some odd 12 man groups. The reply I said this to was:

"Say you start with four, the a couple guys come on, you have six, few more come on, you work up to 12. Then someone has to leave, your group doesn't break until that 12th player comes on, you can operate with 11. Way it stands now, you have to break your group apart until you can get that 12th player again."

So he shouldn't have problems forming 12 man groups to play since they have 500+ active players split on all hours of the day.

I do not for the life of me try to figure out where I said there were only 500 fricking customers only. I was only responding to his situation where he said it was hard to keep 12 mans going but he said earlier they have 500+ active players. So step off my *** or keep making **** up.

Having reread the thread, I humbly apologize for my gross oversight which you very correctly pointed out. I had my head in another topic at the time, and when I read

Quote

Because you know, they are the only 500 people playing. No one else is around I guess.

I misinterpreted the sarcastic nature and assumed i was in fact on the right track. Again, I apologize for my mistake, and do not intend to repeat it.

Though I do think you meant to say "QUIT making **** up."

However, as a basic statement to very many other "the game is dead /the playerbase is dwindling" posters, it stands unabashed. It`s just kind of in the wrong thread

Edited by Zerberus, 24 January 2014 - 09:06 PM.

[Riptor]

I like how none of the actuall succesfull f2p games allow complete teams vs pugs.

In most other games the maximum group is 2-4 or 5 players.

12 vs 12 should have never been an option kept for CW to begin with just like any other f2p game that actually is able to deliver.

And we all saw that 12 vs 12 is so unfun no one used it. And now people are actually applauding that the same stuff that made 12 vs 12 the abysmal experience that it was to the puggers?

But hell... lets kill new player retention completly and finaly by stomping on any possible new customer that wants to try out this game... god knows there arent many gamers left that would give this "thing" a try.

No tutorials, no new player experience.. but lotsa lotsa curbstomping.

Zerberus, on 22 January 2014 - 11:18 PM, said:

Again, if you truly believe that, you need help finding your way back to reality, because 500 players of which only 250 are paying couldn`t even keep the servers up for a month, much less pay rent, salaries, et al.

Much less purchase a license extension from Microsoft that probably had a seven or even 8 figure pricetag on it.

Even a ******* newspaper stand needs at LEAST1000-1500 customers DAILY just to stay afloat....depending on where exactly it is. And you`re honestly implying that 250 people paying in 20 bucks maybe once, twice a month are keeping PGI afloat?

That is, with all due respect, far beyond delusional and dissociated from reality....

Arent you cute... you really have no idea how f2p games make money... ever heard of the word "whale"?

You know theres a game called star conflict.. published by the same guys that are behind warthunder.

The game has roughly 500 to 600 players online at once.. with 70 to 80 players looking for games at once and the game is still running, is much more polished and has TONS more content then MWO has.

And despite all this its running and still being worked on.

If you think that a f2p game cant survive on 500+ active players at a time you have no idea how cheap these games can be to run.

Also the number 500 is not an estimate of total active players but players logged into the game client at any given time.

And seeing how a much better product that shoots MWO out of the water in every aspect kept for customisation can survive on comparable numbers its not far fetched from seeing MWO in the same league as star conflict. ESPECIALY with MWO being so heavily (and rightfully) critizised not only by its own community but by youtube personalities and game journalists alike.


Oh and btw. despite such "low" numbers star conflict is not afraid to show them openly to everyone. On the other hand we have MWO who does its best to hide any number that might indicate player activity ever since the start of open beta when active player numbers started to get lower and lower.

Edited by Riptor, 25 January 2014 - 01:34 AM.

[DAYLEET]

Putting pugs versus premades is as antisocial as preventing people from making groups and play with their friends. There can be only one middle ground, premade with premade and pugs with pugs. 1 lance premade are free but 2 and more shouldnt go versus less than 2 and more. and add a free for all queue, where no elo, no lance premade, no tonnage limits influence team formation, anyone getting in there knows hes getting in randomness.

[Sandpit]

DAYLEET, on 26 January 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

Putting pugs versus premades is as antisocial as preventing people from making groups and play with their friends. There can be only one middle ground, premade with premade and pugs with pugs. 1 lance premade are free but 2 and more shouldnt go versus less than 2 and more. and add a free for all queue, where no elo, no lance premade, no tonnage limits influence team formation, anyone getting in there knows hes getting in randomness.

And yet every piece of "evidence" we have seems to support that the player base simply is not large enough to handle that many splits in the queue

[NokZul]

Here is what I think, I think keep the 4 man lance group, have its own queue, one with up to 8 people, have its own queue, and then keep the 12 man where its at, or if that causes too many problems with queue take out the for and just have to 8 people and keep the 12 seperate. I mean seriously if you have 9 friends who get together to play MWO surely you could find 3 more people to form a 12 man, this will help against the 12 man pugging and still being able to play with friends. To my knowledge, usually its people have like 5-6 friends they want to play with, so that would be within the 8 man limit. While yes having that is going to make it easier to steam roll, but its not a full blown steam roll where the whole team is like a clan or communicates perfectly and what not.

[Mudhutwarrior]

I have no issues with lifting the restrictions on group size. I think doing do without considering pugs at all will lead to PGI to finally understand what they have wrought here thinking of pugs as just filler gimped with only a keyboard for comms.