161 replies to this topic

[NextGame]

I dislike a lot of things about PGI's approach, but I approve of this change.

Group up or accept the consequences, there are myriad of units to join and players to group with

[Ryoken]

Flying Judgement, on 17 January 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

pug capslock rant

Thanx for showing us why it is good not to listen to antisocial solo pug ragers and their disturbed self-awareness combined with a lack of knowledge of theory of probability and game mechanics.

Edited by Ryoken, 17 January 2014 - 06:06 AM.

[Artgathan]

As an aside, given the number of "Matchmaker fail!" threads we've seen (where people post total rolls / tonnage imbalances), I don't see what 12s in PUGs will really change. I mean, people are already getting rolled. Now they'll just occasionally get rolled harder.

[Ryoken]

Artgathan, on 17 January 2014 - 06:06 AM, said:

As an aside, given the number of "Matchmaker fail!" threads we've seen (where people post total rolls / tonnage imbalances), I don't see what 12s in PUGs will really change. I mean, people are already getting rolled. Now they'll just occasionally get rolled harder.

For the solo puger nothing will change, as I explained above. They just will blame another boogeyman because they do not understand entering a game alone is a 49/49/02 chance of win/loss/draw.

[Joseph Mallan]

Goose, on 16 January 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

Shenanaigans: I, too, resent how all the guys I used to play with went off to simul-drop land, but they are gone, man, if only 'cause all their Elos' are at lest 500 above any of mine: There simply is no playing with them anymore.

The way MM handles groups seems like it's most visible failing, but we'll never know, and only have a "happy with the margins/ spread/ over-under" from Teh Devs to say it's "good enough."

I hope we will, someday, get guidance in forming a group, but until then, I have better games PuG'n …

This is the antisocial game of battlin' 'bots.

I know where you are coming from here Goose, But I joined the Law to drop with the Law, not to drop with some of the Law but mostly with unknowns.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 January 2014 - 06:52 AM.

[Flying Judgement]

ZealotTheFallen, on 16 January 2014 - 10:25 PM, said:

My guild had 46 members many from the original CW multiplayerbattletech with lobbies. 4man destroyed our clan now it is gone because none that showed up could play as the limit just made them solo or be a smaller group. This is an antisocial game no where close to a team sport as is. And IMO they wanted to destroy the game to get rid of the people telling them this and just keep it (Call of mech machine) , Hoping to suck more cash from people who did not know the lore or the way the true original game was. I bet thats what they planned, leave it as it is now. But they saw their cash cows leave and now they are trying to do anything to get the players base back. And still not doing that great of a job continuing, dragging their feet as they have since they suckered the 5 million from us. They dug a hole and it is just getting deeper filling up with the BS they have promised us and losing people to all the other games out there, that are team based with lobbies etc.. Them crying they don't have the man power, well maybe if they did what they said to us at the start they would not be in this mess, would they? $5 million dollars would have helped thier employee problem.

they stated that they sould 30 000+ phoneix packs and i see mostly overlords on the forums it was a big sucsses. but i wounder how many clan packs they will sell if they become this agressive.

[Damocles69]

Had to happen
Puggs are not people
Adapt or die

[Bromineberry]

Ryoken, on 17 January 2014 - 06:09 AM, said:

For the solo puger nothing will change, as I explained above. They just will blame another boogeyman because they do not understand entering a game alone is a 49/49/02 chance of win/loss/draw.

Yes, there will be changes: The losses will outweigh the wins by far. I soloed when 8mans were still allowed and it was a terrible experience. I only kept on going because I reall do love Mechwarrior.

Edited by Bromineberry, 17 January 2014 - 07:40 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Bromineberry, on 17 January 2014 - 07:33 AM, said:

Yes, there will be changes: The losses will outweigh the wins by far. I soloed when 8mans were still allowed and it was a terrible experience. I only kept on going because I reall do love Mechwarrior.

There was no Elo MM when that was in the game.

[Amsro]

WarZ, on 16 January 2014 - 09:17 PM, said:

Speaking as someone in the highest elo tier ...

I cant say I remember seeing you in a match with me, ummm, ever ? Unless you were maybe one of those nobody fillers that does sub 100 damage and I therefore never notice ?

That does not put you in the "good" camp. You sit with the "bads" ...

Odd statement from you then.

I'm thoroughly amazed at how many players think they are "good not bad", when they are in fact as bad any of the "bads" they rail against.

Just...amazing.

Your speaking as someone from a high Elo tier.? Or thinking Roadbeer is claiming such.?

Even if you claim to be or are assuming Roadbeer to have claimed that. Your entire post relies on an assumption that you know Elo rankings, something you cannot have the information for. Unless of course you have all our Elo scores.

I don't remember seeing you in a match, by your logic one of us is a "Bad". The Bads are simply the Rambo Mr. Bean direct enemy team sprinters that shoot you in the back. AKA the inexperienced players, getting them into groups remedies that.

To all the naysayers of 2-12 grouping being reintroduced, if you think PGI is doing this on a whim you are likely mistaken, I'm sure they have seen the trend of people NOT playing 8vs8 and then less in 12vs12. Once the teams dwindle people get sick of waiting 1 hour to find a match.

It was hard enough to get 8 together organized enough to take on the 8 man min/max team, 12 wasn't even an option most of the time. 6 seems to be the average we have around at the same time, we usually split 3+3 and rarely try to sync drop unless we want to battle each other.

As long as matchmaker puts a 6 man + 6 pugs on one team and 5-7 man + 5-7 pugs it won't feel like PUG stomping, as well you are all forgetting about weight limits on ALL groups.

When I pug its fairly obvious when I have a 4 man on my side I will promptly support them understanding they are better informed. If they become the 7 man I will enjoy the increased organization at the same time understanding the enemy team should be as organized.

\rant

This change should rejuvinate the game and evolve gameplay in general, I'm eager to see how it goes.

[Amsro]

Flying Judgement, on 17 January 2014 - 06:20 AM, said:

u want more 12 man Groups FINISH THE GAME AND GIVE LOBYS AND CW and ull see a hell of a lot more 12 groups.
why on eart should i bring my friends in this game? i wont yeahh join in our team its a great we do death match we fight for nothing. its alot less funn than puging takes 40 minute till every one is gets ready yeam man great stuff.
what u dare to drop alone? than u can not enjoy this game DIE

PGI PLS delete the PUG ques entirely this is a team game !!!!

wtf ? no one need Lobbys CW no noo nooo we just need Premades only

They will make lobbys for them selfe with a 3rd party software and CW on a webpage u dont need to do Stuff just new mechs the fans will be forced to make they own CW and perfect a syncdrop thecnik PFFFFFFFFFFF

this is soo cheap...............

\rant

I do PUG now, I did PUG then (2-8) and I will PUG in the future (2-12).

Your forgetting about Elo, its up to you to have a good match or not.

Elo has already decided that you have won or lost and wants to see what happens, then it changes your score accordingly.! Its a crazy system I know! I find that because of this you need even more match awareness and need to be able to turn the tide of battle. Its a lot to ask for but if you win that hard match your Elo goes up, if you lose nothing changes because that's what was supposed to happen.

Might as well have fun while playing EloAlgorithmOnline. I guess that's just how the tide of battle can turn, sometimes we get a little outclassed.

[oldradagast]

Many folks also PUG or play only in small groups since that's all that often works right in the game, sadly. I played 12-man a few times. The game itself wasn't bad, but here's how it went:

Step 1) Wait 10+ minutes for all 12 players to actually ready their mechs in the mech lab.

Step 2) Hit "Launch" and wait... and wait... and wait... and "Failed to Find Match."

Step 3) Repeat Steps 1 and 2 several times until you finally get a game.

Step 4) Face-plant into a meta 12-man with a lance of Highlander 733C's with 2 PPC's and 2 UAC5's, a lance of Cataphract 3D's with 2 PPC's and an AC10, and a lance of ECM lights. Each identical, each working together, and our team (though decent) died horribly.

Step 5) Go back to Step 1 and start over...

Yeah... I don't know what causes the near inability to launch 12-mans - ELO, lack of 12-mans, or some other thing, but until that's fixed, people will PUG or play in small teams even if they want to game to be more than this. Maybe opening up group number limits will help, maybe not...

Edited by oldradagast, 17 January 2014 - 09:10 AM.

[Bromineberry]

Ghogiel, on 17 January 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

There was no Elo MM when that was in the game.

I think the restriction to 4 man groups was introduced before ELO. And it got better immediately.

oldradagast, on 17 January 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

lack of 12-mans, or some other thing

People don't want to loose, that is one of the reasons. Back, when 8 mans were still allowed, the standard argument on the forum was "We cannot play other 8-man premades, so thats the only thing we can do. If we had the chance to directly play other 8 man premades, we would do so. We simply HAVE to pugstomp!". Then PGI put the 4man ristriction into the games and opened the 8vs8 queue. A short time later, people already started complaining that

A: 8vs8 was boring because it was only poptarts and meta builds, that became boring stalemate wack a mole games
B: 8vs8 games were hard to find, because so few people are playing them

I still think, the majority of premades WANT to pugstomp, they WANT to bash baby seals, they WANT easy wins. They don't want real challanges or fair matches. Of course, there are a lot of premades, who are competitive, and don't fear a challange, and thats great. But I still think the "black sheep" are the majority. These are the typically "ggclose" guys. Bare in mind, that 51% are also a majority.

And, like I said before, I don't care, if they allow everything up to 12 man premades again. I really don't. AS LONG as the MM creates good matches. 10 man premade + 2 pugs vs 10 man premade vs 2 pugs: I'm fine with it. 8 man premade and 4 pugs vs. 2 man premade and 10 pugs...not so great.
I simply want fair, exciting matches. I don't want to stomp but I also don't want to get stomped. The best matches are those, who are really, really close. Of course there will be the occasional stomp. That is ok. But no-one should ever have 10 or 20 of such games in a row. And I fear, that will happen to a single player, if they reintroduce everything up to 12 mans without working on the MM.

Edit: I also don't understand, why PGI did not put a 4vs4 man premade mode into the game. Shouldn't be so hard...and would make many people happy.

Edited by Bromineberry, 17 January 2014 - 09:29 AM.

[TygerLily]

As a merc corps player I want to play with my friends in a group above 4 but I also want to have the option to play solo without getting stomped.

"ELO should adjust your bracket so you're not fighting pugs."
Firstly, in it's current state, I don't trust MM and ELO that much to balance the matches. Also, the road to this ELO improvement would have to be paved in the blood of n00bs who would promptly quite the game...Conversely, if I have a high ELO from my teamplay, and decide to pug, I will be in the higher bracket but alone and there for pugstomped. I want to play alone sometimes and I want it to be fun and balanced.

"Groups will just go 11, and have one pug on their team."
That's probably true (it's not sleazy tactics, they are "competitive"! /endsarcasm). I think if they DO fix the matchmaker so it starts with a premade of a certain size...matches it with another premade of the same size (+ or - 1)....then fills in with pugs...I think that could be balanced. I want to play with friends (4 is too small) and I want it to be fun and balanced.

Edited by TygerLily, 17 January 2014 - 09:51 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Bromineberry, on 17 January 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

I think the restriction to 4 man groups was introduced before ELO. And it got better immediately.

That's what I said.

[Flying Judgement]

Amsro, on 17 January 2014 - 08:36 AM, said:

\rant

I do PUG now, I did PUG then (2-8) and I will PUG in the future (2-12).

Your forgetting about Elo, its up to you to have a good match or not.

Elo has already decided that you have won or lost and wants to see what happens, then it changes your score accordingly.! Its a crazy system I know! I find that because of this you need even more match awareness and need to be able to turn the tide of battle. Its a lot to ask for but if you win that hard match your Elo goes up, if you lose nothing changes because that's what was supposed to happen.

Might as well have fun while playing EloAlgorithmOnline. I guess that's just how the tide of battle can turn, sometimes we get a little outclassed.

yep that is true thx 4 calming me down with some facts
any way this would be a great idea if CW is working and every one is droping just with his own faction memmbers more would be amazing if one could chose and sign up for prefered units to fill the gap, if they need some one.
In that way main units could grow or born more often. Or haveing my friend list added to the match maker or signing up friends who i prefer playing with.
if its restricted to faction "fewer players to match with"
i could have a better chanse to fill the empty gap with ppl i know and they play style. so its a lower chanse we get stomped without a good fight.

but implementing this before 1st part of CW is more likely its ends up in a stomp. is going to be the same as it was with
pug 8vs8.pre made but its a lot cruler if 2vs12 happens
im watching this game since 2012 1st of november and i cant belive we will see a working matchmaker for this scenario.
A lots of ppl not going to like it and leave.

one of the reasons i dont play in a group in these day is because i dont like stomping its just borring a GG should last for 8-14 minute unable to tell whos going to win till the last man. I like to discourage any action what may decrease the number of these games

sorry about my rant.but i strongly belive there are other ways to fix This problem without forceing others in to a bad experience.

Edited by Flying Judgement, 17 January 2014 - 10:27 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

You got some good suggestions in there Flying. I really like the pulling from your on line friends first! Having In game VOiP would make this even better for when we are PUGging!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 January 2014 - 10:21 AM.

[TygerLily]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 January 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

You got some good suggestions in there Flying. I really like the pulling from your on line friends first! Having In game VOiP would make this even better for when we are PUGging!

That is a good idea. Although, in essence won't that mean people will have a more successful sync drop...and therefore, essentially all they are doing is grouping in more than 4 but with better luck. So why not just group up?

Integrated VOIP has been a long suggested thing...I think it would do wonders for this game.

[WarHippy]

I primarily drop alone, and I am all for people being able to drop in groups of 2-12. I like the challenge, and I want for people to be able to play with their friends. My one caveat is that this comes with weight limits and I don't like weight limits because when I do drop with one or two others we all tend to drop heavy, and the heavier mechs are what we enjoy piloting. Weight limits force people to decide between playing with friends and playing the mechs that they enjoy and as such I don't like it. My one compromise would be if weight limits only applied to groups of five or more, and even then I'm not sold on the idea.

[Joseph Mallan]

TygerLily, on 17 January 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

That is a good idea. Although, in essence won't that mean people will have a more successful sync drop...and therefore, essentially all they are doing is grouping in more than 4 but with better luck. So why not just group up?

Integrated VOIP has been a long suggested thing...I think it would do wonders for this game.

You say this like I would be upset by it? I am here to play as part of a 12 man team. As a PUG I am stuck as a individual in a group of 11 other individuals. I want 12 on 12 action that has a mix of PUG an full teams. Keep me on m toes so I don't become accustom to always facing "my equals".