123 replies to this topic

[MustrumRidcully]

Simple question.

In the days of the Quad PPC Stalker and Jagerbombs, it seems clearly that high mounted arms was better than fully articulated arcs. But how are things now, or in general?

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 29 September 2013 - 09:51 AM.

[El Bandito]

If it is a mech without JJs, I always prefer high-mounted arms on any direct fire mechs.

[MadPanda]

Well obviously higher arms are better. What is it gonna help you swing them sideways if they hang low? Track some circling light mech? Nah, high arms work for everything.

[RandomLurker]

Completely role dependent. If you're a sniper, hitting from behind cover is supreme. If you're a brawler, a light mech, or a light hunter, then the accuracy from unlocked arm weapons is supreme.

[PEEFsmash]

The answer is high-mounted arms almost 100% of the time. Having articulated arms is actually a hinderance on many mechs.

[The Boz]

My main mech is an Atlas, and the lower arm articulation is rarely very useful. I can sometimes shoot above or below what my hilariously limited yaw angle would otherwise allow, but it is still useless at fighting small mechs that leghump me. Even while zoomed out, I can't look down enough to aim at them with unlocked arms.
And the the low and wide position of the arms makes it hard to fight in any sort of non-flat environment.

[Cest7]

If you're brawling I prefer lower arm actuators with a wide arch.

Long rang fire support benefits more from higher arms.

[Icewraith]

If the clans ever get here, fear the firemoth with articulated high-mount arms and a clan ppc.

[MustrumRidcully]

PEEFsmash, on 29 September 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

The answer is high-mounted arms almost 100% of the time. Having articulated arms is actually a hinderance on many mechs.

Does your verdict come from the fact that the actuators actually cost crit space as hindrance, or is it really only the high points, so even if we'd give you an extra crit slot in each arm, it wouldn't matter?

Do you also consider it this way when thinking about mechs with low torso twist ranges? Jenner, Catapult and Jagermech are pretty awesome in that regard, but the Stalkers are pretty bad at this.

(I would not be surprised if you said: Yes, even with a Stalker like torso twist radius and without actuators costing crit space I think a high arm position is superior. But I don't just want to assume.)

[aakek]

I have used both and honestly you are going to get a lot of different answers because of the differences in weight classes, roles played, and individual mechs.

Cataphract's articulated arms are horrible overall due to their low slung nature. Non articulated like the Jager are great being high mounted as you don't have to expose as much of your mech to fire. Centurions arms are wonderful with variants with arm weapons giving you an extreme arc of fire with practice allowing you greater flexibility in fighting all mechs.

I prefer mediums and there arms are more important than in the heavy/assault classes.

[MustrumRidcully]

aakek, on 29 September 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

I have used both and honestly you are going to get a lot of different answers because of the differences in weight classes, roles played, and individual mechs.

Not what I am seeing. So far very few seem to care for the articulated arms.
It is, of course, still early.
But the top vote is currently high mounted arm, followed by "role-dependent". From the data I would at best conclude that currently only roles that benefit from high mounted arms are seen as effective. Alternatively, while people tend to think there might be some value to low slong arms, they just don't play a role where they are needed, while in truth, such roles simply don't exist.

[The Boz]

You'd think that a low slung arm lets you hit small mechs more easily, but the limited view angle, funky convergence on nearby objects, and inability to see the line of fire nix that idea.

[Megalosauroid]

The only time actuated arms are really useful is when you have slow torso twist, so as long as the meta of mounting the biggest engine you can so you can get fast speed/turning/torso twist persists high mounted arms will always be more desirable.

[arghmace]

One overlooked advantage of low mounted articulated arms is blocking incoming fire with them. Especially if you throw them upwards towards your cockpit while torso twisting. This is also one of the reasons not to use arm lock or you lose the ability to swing your arms real fast for protection.

Edited by arghmace, 29 September 2013 - 12:11 PM.

[Takony]

High mounted arms and/or high mounted torso weapon slots are100% better than articulated arms.

Even after the 3-2PPC/Gauss/AC40 meta, this still holds true, because hill humping/minimum exposure+flanking is still theway, and for that, hight mounted weapons are better in every situation.

Articulated arms are only good for ... aside from ******* laser beams over enemy mechs ... for maybe Ctrl+mouse aim torso shielding, Centurion style, but whatever.

Stalker, Ctf 3D, Jager, ty.

[Mudhutwarrior]

I would go with high mounted but chose depends on your role. If your a top notch player I would assume its articulation over anything. I cant see the dot and the line with my eyesight so I stay arms locked and high mounted. Ran the Cataphract and its pretty much a death sentence for me when my buddy rocks it hard.

I do have fun when I get to kill a regular premade though knowing a blind man worked him over when I had to guess where the recticle was. My really bad KD doesnt matter then.

[stjobe]

One of the only (if not THE only) advantages the Commando has over the other lights is that it has fully articulated arms. It makes keeping your weapons on target while maneuvering at 130-150kph a lot easier.

Plus you can keep your weapons on target in a wider arc, which is also a good thing.

Edited by stjobe, 29 September 2013 - 12:31 PM.

[Sable Dove]

Articulation is very important for heavier mechs.

Or it's supposed to be. Mech efficiencies kinda make articulation rather unimportant. Take a stock atlas, for instance. It turns slow, and can't torso twist very far. The articulation of the arms is extremely helpful for shooting faster or smaller mechs.

However, once you get to Elite, these disadvantages all but disappear. Suddenly the Atlas is turning faster, twisting further, and now the articulation is far less important, as you're more maneuverable than a stock heavy, if not a stock medium.

Mech efficiencies make it impossible to balance the roles, as they're almost all mobility-related, which helps heavier mechs a disproportionately large amount. For example, increasing the torso twist speed of my Cicada isn't particularly helpful, as it already turns faster than the camera, but on an assault mech, that twist speed increase is a huge boon.

[Vassago Rain]

My atlas arms are completely useless, and have been since the game's inception.

[stjobe]

Yeah, the pilot efficiencies really need a reworking. Not only do we have two that do absolutely nothing, but many of them are borderline OP; heat efficiencies, speed tweak, twist rates; all these are supposed to be balancing factors for 'mechs, and the efficiencies negate those balancing factors very effectively.