53 replies to this topic

[Flying Judgement]

may be steam on the glass and the hud dissapearing would be the best option it would be harder to hack a least i hope but definetly better FPS wise
i have the feeling the horrible framerates what every one gets is when u nearly overheated in the heat of battle and the steam covering ur view if they increas this it may get worse or they may just fixing it

[C E Dwyer]

627, on 18 January 2014 - 01:06 AM, said:

This was suggested since closed beta, a "soft" punishment for high heat before the shutdown - like obscuring view, slower movement or pilot effects (blurry vision for example). There were drawbacks in TT for high heat before you shutdown, even harsh one like possible ammo explosions (which I wouldn't be a fan of).

If they finally get a system like that to work, everybody would care much more about heat. Now it's just fire as long as you don't overheat and count the seconds until you can alpha again...

Now all the heat impediments from the TT game including ammo explosion's instead of heat scale I would like, remove one of them and I'd rather it stayed with Heat scale

[MustrumRidcully]

Davers, on 18 January 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

Heat penalties will be far more punishing to lights and mediums then they will be for heavy and assault mechs. Mechs that rely on speed or maneuverability will be crippled while mechs that rely on firepower will only be inconvienced.

Depends a lot on the penalties.

Remember that a mech with 10 engine DHS has a heat threshold of 50. A mech with 20 DHS would have only one of 64, only 14 points more. A light mech will produce less heat and thus it will take longer to reach that threshold than the heavier. But of course, it depends on how they determine whether a heat penalty level has been arrived. Percentage Wise? Absolute Heat? Absolute Heat - Heat Sinks Threshold bonus?

And the table top penalties for speed for example are absolute values - e.g. -1 hex of speed. For a mech that moves 8 hexes, that isn't much, for a mech that moves 3 it's a lot.
So a Jenner with 150 kp/h might be lowered to 100 kp/h when he's very hot, but an Atlas that can run 60 kp/h would be lowered to 10 kp/h when very hot - slow as molasses.
Of course, if they make the speed penalties percentage based (e.g. you lose 20/40/60 % speed), then it would hurt light mechs a lot and not affect heavies much.
I would like to think they are smarter than that, but ... We can at least try to warn the, right?


IIRC, this was my thread on the different ways one could implement a heat penalty system: http://mwomercs.com/...em-suggestions/

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 19 January 2014 - 05:37 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Sybreed, on 18 January 2014 - 05:48 PM, said:

don't they need to rework their heat design though?

My expectations are so low, that I take everything I can and hope that we will slowly erode all those bad decisions away. One step at a time!

[Sephlock]

Only if the Awesome gets mech specific efficiencies that negate these penalties, and make it able to fire six ppcs (chain fired) in rapid succession. And alpha strike with all of them and JUST BARELY avoid overheating, even on mordor.

[Davers]

MustrumRidcully, on 19 January 2014 - 05:34 AM, said:

Depends a lot on the penalties.

Remember that a mech with 10 engine DHS has a heat threshold of 50. A mech with 20 DHS would have only one of 64, only 14 points more. A light mech will produce less heat and thus it will take longer to reach that threshold than the heavier. But of course, it depends on how they determine whether a heat penalty level has been arrived. Percentage Wise? Absolute Heat? Absolute Heat - Heat Sinks Threshold bonus?

And the table top penalties for speed for example are absolute values - e.g. -1 hex of speed. For a mech that moves 8 hexes, that isn't much, for a mech that moves 3 it's a lot.
So a Jenner with 150 kp/h might be lowered to 100 kp/h when he's very hot, but an Atlas that can run 60 kp/h would be lowered to 10 kp/h when very hot - slow as molasses.
Of course, if they make the speed penalties percentage based (e.g. you lose 20/40/60 % speed), then it would hurt light mechs a lot and not affect heavies much.
I would like to think they are smarter than that, but ... We can at least try to warn the, right?


IIRC, this was my thread on the different ways one could implement a heat penalty system: http://mwomercs.com/...em-suggestions/

Of all the mechs that have been complained about, none of them rely on speed. So why would reducing speed bother them? Before Ghost Heat it was normal for them to overheat, shutdown, and take internal damage- and that didn't bother them. "Oh noes! My Highlander lost 10KPH! (30m per 10 seconds) Good thing that doesn't effect my JJs so I can stand behind this building and still poptart!"

Name one mech that is considered OP that relies on speed and would be effected by these penalties. Unless you consider some light mechs OP you can't.

[Coolant]

dymlos2003, on 18 January 2014 - 01:03 AM, said:

If there was steam or visual obscuring when there is high heat, people would cry like there was no tomorrow. Just like the glass implementation there were actual people whining about it.

yes, just like they whined and complained and threatened to sue the jumpjet screen shake which wasn't even remotely close to being bombarded with missiles, Arty/Air Strikes, or an AC20 hit...or for that matter any other jerky 1st person shooter....they whine and complain cause their precious little strategy doesn't work anymore and they'll do anything to get it back....

Edited by Coolant, 19 January 2014 - 10:00 AM.

[Coolant]

EvilCow, on 18 January 2014 - 01:33 AM, said:

MW4 Mercs had all the things I mentioned.

Yes it did...and ty EvilCow for the work u did on Mercs...especially Monitor and Evilbot

Edited by Coolant, 19 January 2014 - 09:59 AM.

[NRP]

I would like to see some other approach to balancing the game other than harsher and harsher heat penalties, because all that does is further penalize energy builds. We already have a meta dominated by ballistics, which are largely heat neutral. Any additional heat-related balancing isn't going to move the game play in a positive direction in my opinion.

I do however think a "relatively low heat capacity, relatively high heat dissipation" model would effectively limit high alpha strikes but would allow the player to maintain good DPS with energy weapons through chain firing. Right now, energy builds just cannot match the DPS of ballistics. Maybe it's time to increase the recycle time on ballistic weapons?

I don't know what should be done, but I feel like energy builds have been getting progressively screwed with each balancing attempt.

[Sybreed]

I still think it wouldn't work the way heat is working:

I fire 2 PPCs at the same time: PSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH steam in my cockpit? No thx. Heat needs to be reworked!

[Chemie]

there are already penalties. when your heat is high, you have to fire less. anything more just buffs AC which are low heat weapons with pin point damage

[Mindwyrm]

NRP, on 19 January 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

I would like to see some other approach to balancing the game other than harsher and harsher heat penalties, because all that does is further penalize energy builds. We already have a meta dominated by ballistics, which are largely heat neutral. Any additional heat-related balancing isn't going to move the game play in a positive direction in my opinion.

I don't know what should be done, but I feel like energy builds have been getting progressively screwed with each balancing attempt.

You make a good point about heat punishing energy weapons. All things considered, that is the nature of energy weapons though. Less weight more heat. That's the trade off they make with ballistics.

Chemie, on 19 January 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

there are already penalties. when your heat is high, you have to fire less. anything more just buffs AC which are low heat weapons with pin point damage

Yes there are penalties in place for heat. I just think they suck. I'm not looking to add MORE penalties though. I'd like for PGI to take Russ Bullock's suggestion and REPLACE ghost heat with it.

[Rebas Kradd]

Mindwyrm, on 19 January 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

You make a good point about heat punishing energy weapons. All things considered, that is the nature of energy weapons though. Less weight more heat. That's the trade off they make with ballistics.

Keep in mind that while we have no variants with 6+ ballistics hardpoints, we do have several mechs in the game with up to 9 energy hardpoints. Of all the weapon classes, energy weapons are actually probably the ones that can most afford to be nerfed.

Soft penalties like fogging windows won't prevent the return of 6PPC boaters. Such players have already learned how to position themselves far from the battle and any possible repercussion. Not being able to see won't deter them, because they can simply step back into cover once they release a salvo and wait for their windows to clear without fear of being molested. Forcing them to shutdown and causing internal damage is a much stronger measure.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 19 January 2014 - 11:59 AM.

[Will9761]

I want to see how this heat impairment works out. But I do agree that ghost heat needs to die badly.