1911 replies to this topic

[Imperius]

Bad Karma 308, on 14 June 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

Don't mean to put you off, but your question is far more appropriate over in the Hardware support forums as there is quite a bit of experience to help better answer your question.
http://mwomercs.com/...are-accessories A developer usually target their code to fall within the minimum and recommended hardware requirements: Listed here --> http://mwomercs.com/...m-requirements/

However, since you are here, computer design and engineering is my profession. So if you're willing to take some advise I'll throw out a few pointers regarding your questions.

You have a very good design going but let me give you some considerations for you to think about:

I never go about putting parts down for people until you know the most important factors:

1.) Budget -- The most critical of all factors
2.) Longevity - Whatever you build needs to plan out for future upgrade ability, or else you've just defined its approximate date of death.
3.) Needs & use- What else does this machine need to do for you. Is it just games or do you edit video, database, or just general use.
4.) Cannibalize - What components can you bring forward from your current system(s).

Your CPU choice. If you are going to move into the 2011 (I.e. "Enthusiast") realm then the 4930K will gain you entry but also allow you plenty of room for oveclocking provided you can keep it very cool i.e water cooling. . But....without overclocking, at this point, the socket 1150 based 4770K can outperform the 4930K, but you lose the extra 2 cores. Also something to reflect on is that the HASWELL-E 2011 series is due out in the 3-4 qtr of this year but will necessitate a new 2011 Z99 chipset and current 2011 MBRs will not be compatible (per Intel). So you may be literally building yourself into a deadened system by your current choice.

RAM: Yes, a socket 2011 with quad channel memory will give you far more memory bandwidth, but you should look for faster memory as 1600 is slow enough at this date and time that your extra bandwidth will be offset by the lower performance. There are some great deals out there on 1866,2133 and even 2400 right now that is about the same cost as 1600. Also with quad channel memory you want to have at least 4 sticks to aggregate the bandwidth to take advantage of this feature. Right now 4Gb is minimum, 8GB is about standard, and anything over 16 is pure gravy.

Motherboard: the Sabertooth line by ASUS is a great board, but it is the entry level board for their Republic of Gamers Line (ROG). As such it trims quite a few features and OC stability available with the higher ROG boards.

GPU: The 680 should serve you fine for now. One thing to remember is that Nvidia re-branded the GTX 680 as the current GTX 770, with a few tweaks. So to upgrade in the future you'd have to surpass the GTX 770 or you'd see no benefit.

Cases are subjective to each individual, so I don't go into to much here. Just make sure that if you do decide to OC, the case you choose has enough room and accessories to support it. But I do always say that with a case, go a bit more than you think you need.


Now for my own setup and experience.

---------------------------
Processor 2x Intel Xeon E5-2697W v2 Ivy Bridge-EP 3.1GHz 12-Core W/HT 48-cores @3.8GHZ

Co_Processor Intel Xeon Phi 5110P

Motherboard ASUS Z9PE-D8WS Dual LGA 2011

Memory 128GB DDR3 2133

Hard Drive OCZ Z-Drive R4 CM84 1.2TB PCI-E

NIC Intel PCI-E 10Gb Dual Port sfp

Video Card (depending on need) 3x GTX780 Ti / 24x Nvidia Tesla 1070X 1U GPGPU servers

Monitor 3x HP ZR30w 30"

Sound Card Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D Fatal1ty Champion

Keyboard Logitech G19

Mouse Cyborg R.A.T. 7

Operating System Windows 7 Enterprise
_____________

Now I also game on a second system that I switch in and out on which is similarly configured.
CPU 4960X
MB: Rampage IV Extreme
RAM: 64GB DDR3 2400
GPUs Currently 2x 780xTi with a new 780 6GB edition for running Physics X

I do have a trio of Titans, as well as some just arrived Titan Zs that I'm experimenting with, but haven't really gamed on them yet. there are also several 48U racks loaded with customized 1U Tesla 1070x that I use mostly for GPGPU but am attempting to push MWo through them.

Spoiler

And plenty more power to spare: (this is my old setup before I moved last year, My new room/office is unfinished still bare drywall at this point.) new pics as I get closer to finished.


(This is my current (finished) Basement server farm)

While I use my Xeon based system more often I do get slightly better FPS on my 4960X system. But the big system is far more condusive to my needs at the moment. But even with all this horse power I tend to stay just shy of 80-90FPS while standing still at drop. I average 55-70FPS for much of the game. But it does every once in a while venture into the teens and even single digits (for just a sec or two) when a lot of action is going on close up. I haven't mapped out the causes of the single digit slow downs but I; leaning toward that they may be more server side at this point, but with no real evidence to back up that claim just yet.

Now, I run a single 30" monitor at 2560 x 1600 and TXAA for MWo, At 1080P it never dips below 100fps. Regardless, the monitor has a 60Hz refresh. Also to take under consideration is that SLI & Crossfire are not implemented yet as you can read previous in this post where I has inquired with Karl on its hopeful timeline.

So if you go through the hardware and accessories forum, you'll see that a lot of people have very mixed results with the game as it sits right now. The performance has improved drastically with the last several patches, And I expect that we'll see even more with newer release. But for right now the old adage is that the more GHZ,CORES/RAM/GPU that you can throw at it will help. It is just what your wallet can sustain becomes the biggest factor.

Thanks for your reply and time. I am aware of the new processor coming out soon but don't know if it will be too new for current game engines. I do not plan on doing any overclocking and when I looked into ram I read that you wont get a benifit off faster speeds than the motherboard allows unless you overclock again I don't plan on overclocking.

[Corbenik]

Modo44, on 14 June 2014 - 03:28 AM, said:

We have heard of a laser hit detection problem that made them register 10% less damage. Can you tell us if that is 10% less on average, or for every shot fired? The reason I am asking is, I could only notice all or nothing laser hit detection (working fine or disappearing with 0 damage). Is it possible that the bug found is something different?

In the NGNG clan part 2 video from PTS Russ said that the fix for that bug

[Bad Karma 308]

Imperius, on 14 June 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

Thanks for your reply and time. I am aware of the new processor coming out soon but don't know if it will be too new for current game engines. I do not plan on doing any overclocking and when I looked into ram I read that you wont get a benifit off faster speeds than the motherboard allows unless you overclock again I don't plan on overclocking.

They aren't going to take any instruction sets out of the new processor, if anything then new CPU will run the game's code far more efficiently while at the same time utilizing less resources.

Since you aren't overclocking then your money will get you much further with much better performance by switching to a socket 1150 and a 4770. The K at the end of an INTEL CPU, like 4770K, means that has an unlocked multiplier which is needed for overclocking. So go with a regular one and save yourself some cash.

The RAM speed will make quite a bit of difference to the applications and OS. Even Karl earlier in this post mentioned that MWo favors higher RAM speeds. But he difference between an increment or two, like going from 1333 to 1600, isn't really noticeable to the naked eye. But if you jumped from say 1600 to 2133 or 3300 then yes you can really see the difference between them. Some of the new Z97 1150 board support much greater RAM speeds. (like this one ---> http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813132127 ) DDR3 3300(OC)3200(OC)/3100(OC)/3000(OC)/2933(OC)/2800(OC)/2666(OC)/2600(OC)/2500(OC)/2400(OC)/2200(OC)/2133(OC)/2000(OC)/1866(OC)/1800(OC)/1600/1333

Edited by Bad Karma 308, 14 June 2014 - 04:52 PM.

[Mawai]

Chimerahawk, on 12 June 2014 - 10:20 PM, said:

After testing them on the test server all day, the sound is only really jarring to the person who equipped it. I barely noticed them on other people, as they're not quite as noticable as the heavy metal sound.

So wait, you should get the toggle you want, but other people shouldn't get the just-as-reasonable one they'd like..? That's a bit hypocritical isn't it?

Forgot to mention that I'd like both options to be available.

Honestly, I don't really care whether another player can see their warhorn or not. It has no impact on any other player in the game.

However, fundamentally a player has a choice whether to equip or not equip a warhorn and then both see and hear its effects. On the other hand, another player has no choice about hearing a player's warhorn unless a check box is implemented allowing that player to turn off hearing the warhorn sound effects. The situations are fundamentally different but if they have the developer bandwidth to do both then by all means do so ...

[Karl Berg]

Imperius, on 14 June 2014 - 12:46 AM, said:

Ok, here is the build I am thinking about doing your feedback would be outstanding Karl.

Keep in mind I'm going to use my Nvidia GTX 680 Mac Edition which should work in it regardless since EFI boot is an extra added to the card.

CPU Intel Core i7-4930K Ivy Bridge-E 6-Core 3.4GHz
Heat Sink (This thing is just cool, hope it fits)
Motherboard ASUS Sabertooth X79 LGA 2011 Intel
GPU Nvidia GTX 680 Mac Edition
RAM CORSAIR Dominator Platinum 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
Power Supply CORSAIR HX Series HX750 750W
Total Cost $1,374.94
Case MWO feel to it

Those are some beastly specs! I would imagine this machine would play nearly any game just fine; although you would want to buy two sets of those 2 x 4GB sticks. The CPU is quad-channel DDR-3, so having all four channels filled will allow the system to interleave memory writes and achieve much higher throughput rates.

The hex core might be a bit overkill. I'm not sure if users have run any benchmarks between slightly lower clocked hex cores vs a quad core at slightly higher frequencies; so the 4820 might be worth careful consideration as well if you're going to go with a 22nm ivy bridge.

[Karl Berg]

Goose, on 13 June 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

Sir? I know I gave up on my i7-920 a little early, but it at 2.8GHz, it never seemed happy until I used a fps limit in the low 40s: How "decent" is "decently" for you?

I don't think I've seen anyone come out and say CryEngine is sensitive to ether bandwidth or latency in main memory: What have you seen?

I was under the impressions the particle system was a form of CPU bottleneck, like physics? There were a number of my tests where standing at the C4 bridge access on River City, facing 340°, would drop the GPU load 5~12%; I blamed this on the fire right in front of me, the one that dispersals if particles are set to Low.

I know the default thread placements in CryEngine will cheerfully use 6 cores, and it's clear a quad-core with enough Hz can absorb half it's cores "doubling up," but I'd really like to know in what pattern they do so. (Finding out why setting all 12 Named Threads to zero seems to work on smaller core-counts might also be informative: My theory on it is really just a WAG.)

Thank you for your time, Sir.

To be fair, I don't run the game at highest settings at home. For the most part, I don't really notice any issues with my 920, and I feel little need to upgrade right now . Desktop processors have seemed to be unfortunately stagnant for the last few years. Not much competition in this market recently. It's been much more fun for me to watch all the new developments in mobile CPU tech.

I would expect memory latency and transfer speeds to be increasingly important as you bump the game settings. At the very least due to the terrain system having much higher tessellation levels, which increases transfer load from CPU to main memory to GPU memory. Exceeding that memory transfer limit will result in hitching.

In terms of cores used, the game really only has the main thread, a render thread, and a physics thread for heavy lifting. We also have a network thread for managing communications with the data center, but the load on that thread is trivial. There are other helper threads for asset streaming and other worker tasks, but those should sit idle most of the chunk of time. Beyond that, the libraries the game uses will likely spawn their own threads. Depending on your GPU and drivers, there is likely a D3D driver thread as well as an example. We let the OS handle all scheduling, and try not to force specific affinities.

Goose, on 13 June 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

Then you lost me …

I actually gave my GDC speech on a 2012 MBP. I've found it to be a reasonably impressive piece of hardware!

edit: Aside from the lack of an optical drive. That's a bit annoying.

[Karl Berg]

Rebas Kradd, on 13 June 2014 - 08:51 PM, said:

Say more about this and its other effects on gameplay mechanics. What are those dozens of individual components? Does it affect hitreg? Why did you decide to go with this setup instead of single components? How else does this make MWO unique from other games, in terms of design challenges?

It shouldn't have any affect on HSR. Mechs are built in this manner so that mechlab customizations can be represented visually in the mechlab and in game. Obviously there are tradeoffs however. Spending those resources on the mechs means you have to be much more careful with the resources spent on environment and effects.

Li Song, on 14 June 2014 - 01:08 AM, said:

@Karl Berg
According to analysis performed here: http://mwomercs.com/...-a-brief-guide/
Internals (actuators, gyros, life support etc) do not take part in the resolution of critical rolls. I.e. a roll that hit an internal is a re-roll. This was reinforced by the fact that internals had 0 HP.

In the Clam PTS data files, internals now have a HP value. Does this mean that internals do take part in the crit roll resolution and can infact be destroyed? In other words, do internals act as a built-in crit buffer? (I'm not asking if destroying an actuator has any actual effect on your mech, which would be cool but doesn't really affect my mechlab).

Also in response to PTS clam:

• Missing description for Clan Standard Structure in TheRealLoc.xml.
  
• Accepting lobby invite while in lobby fails silently.

As far as I understood it, those internals were always at least crit soakers. I can confirm on Monday, but I don't think the behaviour of those internals has really changed with Clans. All gameplay has done is formalize how they were represented, so that they could have more gameplay relevant fixed equipment. Like the engines in clan mechs, or the flamer in the adder.

edit: Nice bug catches; I'll pass those on. Thanks!

[Cimarb]

Mawai, on 14 June 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

Honestly, I don't really care whether another player can see their warhorn or not. It has no impact on any other player in the game.

However, fundamentally a player has a choice whether to equip or not equip a warhorn and then both see and hear its effects. On the other hand, another player has no choice about hearing a player's warhorn unless a check box is implemented allowing that player to turn off hearing the warhorn sound effects. The situations are fundamentally different but if they have the developer bandwidth to do both then by all means do so ...

After playing the PTS for 10 hours straight, I can assure you that the warhorns are anything but obnoxious. I did notice them occasionally, and I think there may actually be an issue where distance doesn't affect the sound level, but with all of the other sounds in the game, it is barely noticable usually.

[Goose]

Karl Berg, on 14 June 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

The hex core might be a bit overkill. I'm not sure if users have run any benchmarks between slightly lower clocked hex cores vs a quad core at slightly higher frequencies; so the 4820 might be worth careful consideration as well if you're going to go with a 22nm ivy bridge.

… So: I was compelled to overclock up to ~4.1GHz or so, on the "new" i7-990X, as Nehalem doesn't have as much IPC as Sandy Bridge, and Teh One Problem Thread demands Hz like that. If you can meet these demands, then all the other theads seem to double-up into a quad core nicely enough.

But being a hexa comes in real handy with OBS for streaming, and dove-tails nicely with sorting out the default thread listing:


Or better:


Annnd the i7-920 looked like this:


So who is Teh One Problem Thread? I think it's ca_thread0Affinity, but there was a time when I thought it was sys_physics_CPU; Currently, Krinkov is positive it's physics.

Thanks for you replies, Sir …

[East Indy]

Hey, Karl. Have you considered whether the matchmaker's new "release valves" are vulnerable to trends or even susceptible to deliberate exploitation?

Example A, players run enough of a certain weight class per their historical preferences, the matchmaker yields and 3s are rarely in force. (I.e., 3s created to prevent too many assaults, but too many assaults prevent 3s.)

Example B, players spread the word to run a certain weight class at a certain time, so the matchmaker reads a false positive and accommodates them.

[Clint Steel]

Hello Karl, you said "Age" is part of matchmaking in the dev log, what did you mean by that?

[Deathlike]

Clint Steel, on 15 June 2014 - 04:55 PM, said:

Hello Karl, you said "Age" is part of matchmaking in the dev log, what did you mean by that?

"Age" used in his context generally means "the time you or your group spends in the MM".

[Shamous13]

Imperius, on 14 June 2014 - 12:46 AM, said:

Ok, here is the build I am thinking about doing your feedback would be outstanding Karl.

Keep in mind I'm going to use my Nvidia GTX 680 Mac Edition which should work in it regardless since EFI boot is an extra added to the card.

CPU Intel Core i7-4930K Ivy Bridge-E 6-Core 3.4GHz
Heat Sink (This thing is just cool, hope it fits)
Motherboard ASUS Sabertooth X79 LGA 2011 Intel
GPU Nvidia GTX 680 Mac Edition
RAM CORSAIR Dominator Platinum 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
Power Supply CORSAIR HX Series HX750 750W
Total Cost $1,374.94
Case MWO feel to it

I would change the cpu cooler to a closed loop water cooling like this or this I run a H80i and love it, it keeps the cpu extremely cool.

[evilC]

@Karl

Any chance you can get somebody to explain to the community how to find out the specs governing hard points on mech locations?
There is clearly a secondary mechanism to hardpoints (There can be more places in a location where weapons will fit than there are hardpoints), but nobody seems to know the rules or how to get at the information.

For example, as you can see on the BNC3-E, there are 3 energy hardpoints, but 4 places that energy weapons can be mounted. Some of them appear to be PPC specific.

Li Song has indicated that she has no idea how to access this information, I dunno about Smurfynet.

Edited by evilC, 16 June 2014 - 02:01 PM.

[Heffay]

evilC, on 16 June 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

@Karl

Any chance you can get somebody to explain to the community how to find out the specs governing hard points on mech locations?
There is clearly a secondary mechanism to hardpoints (There can be more places in a location where weapons will fit than there are hardpoints), but nobody seems to know the rules or how to get at the information.

For example, as you can see on the BNC3-E, there are 3 energy hardpoints, but 4 places that energy weapons can be mounted. Some of them appear to be PPC specific.

Li Song has indicated that she has no idea how to access this information, I dunno about Smurfynet.

It's placed by weapon ID number, which is created according to when the item was "created" (bought). The newer the item, the higher the number and the later it is placed on the mech.

[Cimarb]

Heffay, on 16 June 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

It's placed by weapon ID number, which is created according to when the item was "created" (bought). The newer the item, the higher the number and the later it is placed on the mech.

Not quite what he meant, though that is an important fact as well.

He means that certain "spots" only seem to be used for certain weapons.

Based on his example, if you equip three PPCs, the top one covers both of the "spots" up there and the third one then goes down in the "PPC only" location.

[evilC]

As Cimarb said.
Also note that the numbering in my pic is the slot order.
So if you equip 3 PPCs, they go into slot 1, then 2, then 3.
If you equip 3 LL, they go into slot 1, then 3, then 4

This is a totally different thing to the weapon "Age" issue. (Which also needs looking at - I have seen a PGI employee state that there are "no plans" to address this issue. This is totally unacceptable),

Edited by evilC, 16 June 2014 - 04:50 PM.

[Cimarb]

evilC, on 16 June 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

As Cimarb said.
Also note that the numbering in my pic is the slot order.
So if you equip 3 PPCs, they go into slot 1, then 2, then 3.
If you equip 3 LL, they go into slot 1, then 3, then 4

This is a totally different thing to the weapon "Age" issue. (Which also needs looking at - I have seen a PGI employee state that there are "no plans" to address this issue. This is totally unacceptable),

Karl said (many pages back) that he IS looking into the issue. That doesn't mean they necessarily have "plans" to do so, but he is aware of it.

Sorry I got the order mixed up. I really need to work on those reading skeels.

[9erRed]

Hello Mr. Berg,

Can or is anything being done within the Mechlab for the background?
- Adding some form or impression of movement with Tech's, Mechanics, loading equipment. Something to give the Mech's some scale and size relation. It appears to be the inside of a Dropship, so there should be quite a bustle of human sized elements moving about to get these war machine's ready for there next battle.

Is the current background just a flash presentation with added steam/ mist?
- Is there anything that could be done to slightly lower the viewers eye level to 'bring back' the sense of size of these Mech's?
- Possibly offer a few view heights? (floor, gantry, walkway)
- Should we see some difference in the Dropship if we are using Clan Mech's opposed to IS Mech's.
(different items on the walls, banners representing Clan lore, different colour schemes)

It just appears too sterile in the Mech lab, is everyone on coffee break? Or does this require quite a bit of design, code, animation work for 'just eye candy'.

- Note update: On 3 monitors there is a tear in the image on the left monitor and the background just stops about 1/2 way on that left monitor.

Thanks for any comments,
9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 25 June 2014 - 11:42 AM.

[Jody Von Jedi]

evilC, on 16 June 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

evilC,

What camo color is that Banshee ?

Jody