28 replies to this topic

[Deathsani]

There is very little incentive to capture bases, so little in fact that I will avoid capping for the sake of extended combat. Could we fix this please?

Make capping more rewarding and additionally make combat related to capping more lucrative.

Thoughts?

[Aurrous]

Are we talking about assualt or Conquast.. ??

Assault base capping before a shot is fired, needs to be changed.. and adding a reward for not having to fire a shot should never happen.. So whats the balance there..

And conquest.. Can we speed up the capturing just a little more.. I can grow a beard faster than my mech can capp a point.. It's a little too slow.. 4 mechs standing there for 5 minutes, while the girl from ipanema plays..



Watching, the meter bar slowly rise.. like an elevator changing floors.. never getting anywhere..
Ohh he watches sladly.. Oh what he would give... FOR IT TO END!!

[Sug]

Capping doesn't make sense.

[Deathsani]

Care to elaborate Sug?

I disagree with the penalty for not firing a shot, your objective is to capture not seek and destroy. If you manage to cap out from under the enemy (which is the point of take and hold missions) then you should be rewarded.

Additionally many take-the-objective type mechs don't care weapons with the range to contribute while capping.

[Sug]

Deathsani, on 21 January 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

Care to elaborate Sug?

If I go stand in your house for 2 min does it become my house?

[Deathsani]

Fair point. I would prefer them to have you destroy/protect the extractor or guard an extractor retriever while it evacuates the unit, but that would be a good bit more work than just giving people an in game reason to cap.

[WarHippy]

Sug, on 21 January 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

If I go stand in your house for 2 min does it become my house?

Depends are you armed with a giant stompy robot in a universe that allows for things to be taken by force? If so, then yeah it became your house unless I forcibly remove you from it.

[Deathsani]

Regardless of the reasoning does this idea make sense or not?

I think people need more encouragement to cap in Assault and Conquest, I suggest more rewards, questions/comments/concerns?

[Sug]

WarHippy, on 21 January 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

Depends are you armed with a giant stompy robot in a universe that allows for things to be taken by force? If so, then yeah it became your house unless I forcibly remove you from it.

But you could just go stand in my house. Then we'd each have a house. gg.

[WarHippy]

Sug, on 21 January 2014 - 07:36 PM, said:

But you could just go stand in my house. Then we'd each have a house. gg.

Except I want both houses not just yours or mine. Screw sharing I want to loot and plunder my way across the galaxy.

[Spawnsalot]

WarHippy, on 21 January 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

Depends are you armed with a giant stompy robot in a universe that allows for things to be taken by force? If so, then yeah it became your house unless I forcibly remove you from it.

But you are also armed with a similarly giant stompy robot, what's stopping you from kicking him out before he ruins your butt-groove on the sofa?

On topic:
The reward for capping was larger in the past - it was so good in fact, that people usually ignored each other and raced entire teams to the other base. Leave a small defence force? Nope. Steam-rolled by the entire team and then capped out before the rest of your team can return. Bring less fast lights than the other team? They get more bodies on cap earlier, you lose.
It was terribly dull.

If one team camped their own base they had a good chance of winning by mashing the incoming enemy as they rolled in one at a time, but then that's victory by combat.
I did have the odd match where both teams camped their bases and nobody moved. Had a nice chat though.
That was also terribly dull.

My hope is that once the new game modes like Attack/Defend are released there will be more emphasis on worthwhile objectives that make sense with rewards that encourage smarter play. Objectives should be fun to fight for, not an inconvenience.

Until then I'll be in Skirmish where I don't have to be pulled away from a fun fight because someone stepped on the Exit Match button.

[Kain]

I think the rewards needs to be tweaked, to get a better balance between "Kill 'm all" and "Capwarrior"
In assault, complete capping is mostly used to turn a bad game into a win, because it is more profitabe to destroy some mechs.

Also the difference in XP / C-bills between the teams has nothing to do with winning or losing, it is just about the destruction of mechs/components

You can lose the game but can still earn a load of cbills, so when your base is getting capped, people will just shrug and continue to slug it out, because that is where the c-bills are being made.

But maybe when CW is implemented, Winning a match will get more important, and will also be rewarded as such.

Edited by Kain, 22 January 2014 - 08:18 AM.

[WarHippy]

Spawnsalot, on 22 January 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

But you are also armed with a similarly giant stompy robot, what's stopping you from kicking him out before he ruins your butt-groove on the sofa?

I think you missed the part where I said "unless I forcibly remove you from it".

Spawnsalot, on 22 January 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

On topic:
The reward for capping was larger in the past - it was so good in fact, that people usually ignored each other and raced entire teams to the other base. Leave a small defence force? Nope. Steam-rolled by the entire team and then capped out before the rest of your team can return. Bring less fast lights than the other team? They get more bodies on cap earlier, you lose.
It was terribly dull.

If one team camped their own base they had a good chance of winning by mashing the incoming enemy as they rolled in one at a time, but then that's victory by combat.
I did have the odd match where both teams camped their bases and nobody moved. Had a nice chat though.
That was also terribly dull.

This happened because all they did was make capping worth more instead making them interesting objectives. As an example if they made winning by cap worth more like it was, but also make it so you get almost nothing if you lose to a cap you would increase the incentive for both sides to attack and defend. You have an incentive to attack to earn more money, and an incentive to cap in order to poke the other team in the eye by hurting their income. Of course you will want to defend as well since you don't want to be on the side that gets next to nothing either. Killing the entire enemy team should still be an option, but the reward should be a fair amount lower than what could be had from capping. Numbers would need to be tweaked of course, but I think it would make for much more entertaining games.

Spawnsalot, on 22 January 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

My hope is that once the new game modes like Attack/Defend are released there will be more emphasis on worthwhile objectives that make sense with rewards that encourage smarter play. Objectives should be fun to fight for, not an inconvenience.

I agree with this except for the part where you imply that current objectives are an inconvenience. They might not be as interesting as they could be, but they are hardly an inconvenience.

Spawnsalot, on 22 January 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

Until then I'll be in Skirmish where I don't have to be pulled away from a fun fight because someone stepped on the Exit Match button.

I have yet to drop in a single skirmish match because mindless deathmatch doesn't really appeal to me in a game like this, but of course that is just my opinion much like it was the opinion of some that their enjoyment was more important than the enjoyment of those who wanted to play using the objectives.

[Spawnsalot]

WarHippy, on 22 January 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

I think you missed the part where I said "unless I forcibly remove you from it".

I was just taking a cheap shot at Assault

I made a suggestion in another thread a while back that I think encourages objective play and makes it more worthwhile, what do you think?
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3032081

[WarHippy]

Spawnsalot, on 22 January 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

I was just taking a cheap shot at Assault

I made a suggestion in another thread a while back that I think encourages objective play and makes it more worthwhile, what do you think?
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3032081

I think something like that could work as well, and it certainly helps at giving people at least more options than just a blob fight in the middle of the map. Numbers would probably have to be played around with to get the balance just right so that the objectives are the primary focus, but over all I think it is a good idea.

[Drunken Bunny]

I have to agree with OP 100% (specifically WRT Conquest matches)

Even running my lights there's just no real personal incentive to capture control points.
All of the real scoring metrics are combat-centric so even if my team wins thanks to my hypothetical ninja-capping skills, I'm not going to see any real C-bill or XP payout. Heck, even if I unrealistically captured and held every control point I still wouldn't see the same profit as even a mediocre pilot who lands a few good hits in combat.

Obviously we don't want it paying out better than actual combat, but perhaps scaled XP/CBills over time inside the magic fences rather than a tiny one-shot for capping or assisting? Multipliers for number of control points?

Something needs to change because 8 Conquest matches out of 10 I've played just end up as 'join the furball and maybe go cap if you're too damaged to fight'

Edited by o0xFuzzYx0o, 22 January 2014 - 09:54 AM.

[Ambuscade]

Perhaps with the inclusion of the new base and turrets, capping will become more like:

Step 1) Recon enemy base and evaluate turret defenses. Are my lance mates and I equipped for a capping action?

Step 2) If under armed, call off cap and rethink strategy. Otherwise if capable, proceed to engage turrets.

Step 3) Evaluate enemy counter-attack. If weak, proceed to engage the enemy and continue cap. If outnumbered, withdraw.

That's my pipe dream anyway.

Ambuscade

[TygerLily]

Sug, on 21 January 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

If I go stand in your house for 2 min does it become my house?

LOL, what? More like, I occupy this building for 15 minutes until reinforcements arrive or I kill all the enemy...

[Sug]

WarHippy, on 22 January 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

Except I want both houses not just yours or mine. Screw sharing I want to loot and plunder my way across the galaxy.

Well then you better make sure no one is left alive to stand in your house.

[WarHippy]

Sug, on 22 January 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

Well then you better make sure no one is left alive to stand in your house.

I intend to by actually defending it rather than leaving it to the wolves while I go play laser tag with the guys from the other side.

Edited by WarHippy, 22 January 2014 - 11:59 AM.