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List Of Gameplay Concerns


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#61 Necromantion

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:52 AM

View PostMudhutwarrior, on 21 January 2014 - 08:34 AM, said:

More noise than anything here. After 9000 matches I can say with certainty that majority of bad matches or stomps come from one team having comms and familiarity than any other factor.

So those who run comms invent every other excuse to cover from the biggest inadequacy in the game.

Give us lobbies and voip for everyone before you consider any other changes. Give pugs the tools to counter and most of these perceived imbalances would go away.



I totally agree, the facilitation of quick and easy communication in any multiplayer game that requires teamwork is the biggest factor to being successful, whether its on MWO or Battlefield or whatever. My post didnt mean to make light of that as i did highlight on it. I was just listing things that affect gameplay balance in my eyes and some other related issues, not necessarily in order of importance.

This is another reason why I dont play multiplayer games without being on comms, heck its just more fun that way anyways.

#62 Edwyndham

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:53 AM

I had always figured air/arty strikes would necessitate use of the command console. Seems like something that needs to be seriously reconsidered at this point.

#63 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:56 AM

View Postzwanglos, on 21 January 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

I had always figured air/arty strikes would necessitate use of the command console. Seems like something that needs to be seriously reconsidered at this point.

I agree. That Command Console from my D-DC should do more than fill a slot in my inventory! :rolleyes:

#64 SirLANsalot

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:04 AM

Arty/Airstrikes are WHERE THEY SHOULD BE. They are finally being used, because they do more then hit like a wet noodle. Damage is still kinda low (would like to still see more bang for the buck) but at least there usable and make people scared to be near a hit (this is a GOOD thing). When people like you are whining and complaining about them, that means PGI did the right thing with them, and need to do more of it.

If people are coordinating there strikes against you....then MOVE! Arty strikes cannot hit moving targets, RARLY will they hit a light at all unless its stupid enough to stand still long enough for it to hit.

#65 Necromantion

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:04 AM

View PostDocBach, on 21 January 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:


Require the use of a Command Console or TAG to guide artillery in, add counter battery module which you can deploy to destroy enemy artillery and deny the use of further artillery in the game

This I think may be a decent idea, though requiring extra tonnage to use these things may cause a lot of qq unless there was a specific module slot for consumables which could also just increase the amount we see these things from heavier mechs too. Not sure how that would work, the tag idea isnt a bad thing, i wonder how they would code that in.



View PostSephlock, on 21 January 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

1: would just lead to acrimony amongst players (I WAS ABOUT TO DROP ONE, WTF?! WHY DID YOU DROP AN ARTY STRIKE IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE?!" "**** NOOB!" *friendly fire ensues*

2: Then arty strikes would become a money sink, the prospect of which makes me very very sad inside :rolleyes:.

3: How about reduced damage but drastically increased knock (imagine being hit with pre-nerf chain fired lrms)?

4: That would turn arty into something of a paper tiger, wouldn't it? As it is, it's not that hard to avoid a lot of the time (although I love it when people move back from the smoke thinking it is an Arty strike and eat my Airstrike :ph34r:).


1) People will always find things to do things like that about, whether its "you stole my kill" or the like. Considering this can already happen since it has a cooldown anyways your argument is pretty loose here, this is also why i suggested it not rewarding much if any C-bills. That way its purely tactical rather than "QQ you didnt let me use my 0-480 potential dmg consumable"

2) Too bad, you want advantages in a game you pay for it, endo steel to load more weight, dhs to up your potential dps, etc etc. Youre already paying into a money sink to have the upper hand. Invalid pont, just why YOU dont want it, not because of game balance.

3) Not sure if youre making a suggestion or making an assumption of what i was saying, im not sure if youve ever been hit directly by an arty hit but if you take a direct hit by arty/air as i have a few times in my slower assaults there is NO screen-shake that is worse in the game, your whole cockpit view moves by nearly a whole viewpoint. Think hollywood movie earthquake.

4) No it would't since you could still place it in ways they couldnt see it, especially as lights and would still work as intended to move enemy units from the area since the damage is still incoming.

Edited by Necromantion, 21 January 2014 - 09:46 AM.


#66 Necromantion

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:16 AM

View PostSirLANsalot, on 21 January 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

Arty/Airstrikes are WHERE THEY SHOULD BE. They are finally being used, because they do more then hit like a wet noodle. Damage is still kinda low (would like to still see more bang for the buck) but at least there usable and make people scared to be near a hit (this is a GOOD thing). When people like you are whining and complaining about them, that means PGI did the right thing with them, and need to do more of it.

If people are coordinating there strikes against you....then MOVE! Arty strikes cannot hit moving targets, RARLY will they hit a light at all unless its stupid enough to stand still long enough for it to hit.



Im not sure where youve been but better players have been using them since their inception. If youve played any 12 mans since their inception they have been used a lot since then. And when i say a lot like, A LOT A LOT. They have been widly adopted by the average weekend warrior now because of the fact they are too useful especially when spammed. Take a 4 man and each of you load up an arty/air and use them on cooldown when you can, tell me how things go.



40k for a consumable that can do from 0-480 damage on use that takes up no critical slots and no weight. Lets look at a ton of AC20 ammo, 10k does a potential 0-140 damage and takes up 1 ton and one slot, so for 3 tons to be around the same damage as an airstrike it requires 3 slots and 3 tons and costs 30k and youre complaining youre not getting enough bang for your buck? That is laughable, i guess looking at something in context of the surroundings isnt your strong point.



Air/arty
Cost 40,000 cbills
Damage 40
Rounds 6 or 10
Can hit up to 12 Enemies in a single shot
Critical slots 0
Weight 0
Module slot 1

Potential max damage
40x12=480
(Larger mech hitboxes can be hit by multiple rounds so damage can be higher technically)


1 Ton of AC20 ammo
Cost 10,003 cbills (Not including the 600k for the weapon itself)
Damage 20
Rounds 7
Can hit 1 enemy with a single shot
Critical slots 1
Weight 1
Module slot 0

Potential Max Damage
20x7=140
(Damage can be higher if internals explode due to ammo or gauss rifle)

So even with 3 tons of AC20 you could only do 420 damage maximum assuming youre a good shot and are within its max damage range. Now of course theres no rearm and reload anymore but still, for the money the turnover is more than substantial. Heck if you hit 6 mechs, assuming some have larger hitboxes, with an arty youre going to do more damage than you would to them ever with 3 tons of ac20 ammo.



PGI did the right thing to them huh? So every single time PGI does something they did the right thing? Because you know full well someone whines about every single change. And im here suggesting balances, not solely mentioning the current issues viewed by players and not bringing some suggestion forward to keep these things useful without ruining them but bringing them in line to balance them.

Their* and by the way if you read the 5 other times ive address the whole "well then move" suggestion by other people who are too dense to read and understand my original post ill do it again, heck ill put it in bold. Some heavies and most assaults are too slow to move out of an arty from sub 40% throttle even when they see it right as its cast. Not everyone plays a spider K running around giggling manically until the poor hit registration and hitbox lets them down. People play heavies and assaults too.

I cant believe i keep having to explain the same basic things like "hey assaults accelerate and typically move a lot slower than a light or medium"

Edited by Necromantion, 21 January 2014 - 09:32 AM.


#67 Tombstoner

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:36 AM

View PostNecromantion, on 19 January 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

Issues with the game itself:
1) Spammable arty/air stikes

i'm ok with it

2) ELO

its not working well due to low population.

3) SRM/Ballistic hit registration

it kinda works. could it be better of course, but its in a place where the game can live till resources can free up.

4) Some mechs hitboxes

armor coefficients based on hit location frequency due to art work should have been in place from day one. this normalizes art work effects on survivability. IE. no awesome or dragon ct's

5)The metagame

bundled weapons with no penalty.... add in JJ.... this was called way before PGI got a hold of the IP. yet we still got developed into this corner.

The players:
1) Leeroys

gona happen no mater what......

2) Whats a map?

some just dont care

3) What is the "R" key for?

again some just dont care.

4) Mutes... I can communicate with my teammates?

if i wanted to communicate id join a server.
i dont cause you cant guarantee what get spoken.

Solutions to a lot of the player problems:

more detailed tutorials.

In a nutshell:
MWO is really still an alpha.



The first 3 issues you listed wouldn't make my top ten list.
issues with players.... war is not fair.... see art/air strikes. Engagements are not often = and in fact you want
complete walkovers not fare fights..... people need to lower expectations. i view it a challenge. thats over in a few seconds and worth seeing if can get some fun out of it.

for what you get for the price you pay its not a bad game.

That said seeing PGI extend there hand for whats offered is a joke.They went after UI2.0 way too soon IMO. A skeletal frame work for everything stated in the founders PRS was all that was needed. Now they have to deliver UI2.0 and CW with the clans to follow right after.... then what happens for the game....

PGI tried to chew off a much larger chunk that a larger dev team would have issues delivering. Everything is gated by UI2.0. get all your big pieces in place, even if they don't work @ 100%, Then rebuild the back end for the new front. save clans for later unless thats your income. but then what do you do once you run out of mechs to copy.

Edited by Tombstoner, 21 January 2014 - 09:38 AM.


#68 Necromantion

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:45 AM

View PostTombstoner, on 21 January 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:



The first 3 issues you listed wouldn't make my top ten list.
issues with players.... war is not fair.... see art/air strikes. Engagements are not often = and in fact you want
complete walkovers not fare fights..... people need to lower expectations. i view it a challenge. thats over in a few seconds and worth seeing if can get some fun out of it.

for what you get for the price you pay its not a bad game.

That said seeing PGI extend there hand for whats offered is a joke.They went after UI2.0 way too soon IMO. A skeletal frame work for everything stated in the founders PRS was all that was needed. Now they have to deliver UI2.0 and CW with the clans to follow right after.... then what happens for the game....

PGI tried to chew off a much larger chunk that a larger dev team would have issues delivering. Everything is gated by UI2.0. get all your big pieces in place, even if they don't work @ 100%, Then rebuild the back end for the new front. save clans for later unless thats your income. but then what do you do once you run out of mechs to copy.


Ok so attempting to dodge arty with an assault and then surviving after all your armor is sheared off after 2-4 of them or so is a challenge (depending on the class youre running, youre right it is a challenge. But wait when someone does the same thing to them with an AC40 jager people whine and complain all day.

I never said that the game was awful im saying that these things should be brought into balance.

Im not going to speculate on what PGI is going to do so ill just ignore the whole part about the future and move onto a few more things you said.

To dispel a misconception that a lot of people have, I spoke with helmer the other day in person on TS and he said that the community is actually larger and more active than it has ever been. So no ELO isnt screwed up because of low population, its how it chooses criteria to match upon that is.

Hit registration has been screwed up for half a year, yet priorities like adding new content where these things are still broken and cant be used to their fullest still are being implemented. Bit of a screwed up prioritization no?

The cataphract and awesome's previous hitboxes were drawn right off the ergonomics of the models too. Holy jeeze, please stop making me repeat myself.

And yes this game does still feel like its still significantly in a beta development phase.

#69 Navy Sixes

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:47 AM

View PostNecromantion, on 19 January 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

I cannot tell you how many times I've seen friendlies drop this on one or two mechs.

You might have seen me. I'm running a Blackjack. If there's something way bigger than me tearing me apart (read as "just about everything on the field") I'm going to call in an arty strike. I'd love to get 4-8 mechs within the strike's radius, but even if it's just one Atlas (which is 2.10x my tonnage) it's a valid target. I've been on the recieving side of arty-spam. Fast movers rarely have a problem with it. When I get smashed by arty it's because I'm not playing my mech correctly.

I agree with SRM hit reg. Some are saying it's better now, some are saying it only effects salvos of 10 or more. I haven't tried them lately, so I can't say. Thing is, no one's using missiles anymore. I don't see how ballistic/energy balance is possible with the third element of the trifecta, missiles, being in such a sorry state.

Finally, the most glaring problem with players is absent from your post --unless I missed it. If so, apologies-- Too many assaults. Every class comes with weaknesses and advantages. Those slow heavies and assaults get to carry all the guns, but they are slow, big, and they draw fire (including arty strikes). Many of the "problems" laid at PGI's feet are, in truth, people who run assaults exclusively and want PGI to program away their build's shortcomings.

Anyway, great post. Thanks for sharing.

#70 Tombstoner

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:51 AM

The frequency and depth of your responses is for me a little suspect....do you work for PGI, perhaps have a friend who does?

#71 Iskareot

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:54 AM

View PostDirkdaring, on 19 January 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:



- Arty/Air strikes are slightly annoying but not that bad.
- Hit registration is fine. I've had no problems at all lately with it, even on spiders. Check your ping.
- The game will stick new players in with you if it can't find anything around your rank to save time. Just how long do you want it to search for a match? 5 minutes? 10?
- Metagame. Totally disagree, I see far less poptarts these days than a month ago. I had some of the best brawls in the last couple weeks than I've ever had. Last night we had 2 that was plan awesome, one was on the new map where both teams converged underneath at theta and just went at it.
- Kind of agree with you tutorials but I doubt they would be used in this day and age in gaming.




See this whole comment just makes me wonder what game you are playing? I see this and wonder.....

#72 Iskareot

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:57 AM

View PostNecromantion, on 21 January 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:


Ok so attempting to dodge arty with an assault and then surviving after all your armor is sheared off after 2-4 of them or so is a challenge (depending on the class youre running, youre right it is a challenge. But wait when someone does the same thing to them with an AC40 jager people whine and complain all day.

I never said that the game was awful im saying that these things should be brought into balance.

Im not going to speculate on what PGI is going to do so ill just ignore the whole part about the future and move onto a few more things you said.

To dispel a misconception that a lot of people have, I spoke with helmer the other day in person on TS and he said that the community is actually larger and more active than it has ever been. So no ELO isnt screwed up because of low population, its how it chooses criteria to match upon that is.

Hit registration has been screwed up for half a year, yet priorities like adding new content where these things are still broken and cant be used to their fullest still are being implemented. Bit of a screwed up prioritization no?

The cataphract and awesome's previous hitboxes were drawn right off the ergonomics of the models too. Holy jeeze, please stop making me repeat myself.

And yes this game does still feel like its still significantly in a beta development phase.




Not sure about that (Full population stuff)... that could be somewhat of a perspective comment too. I agree the game still feels like beta though that is for sure.

I mean really the hitbox alone on a Spider tells you this... how a commando cannot last nearly as long... with the same hits can tell anyone this. Hell, in most of my matches the last man standing is a dodging spider you can hit dead cent with a pig of about 10 and using a super rig to do it with and still not hit him.

#73 Kilrein

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:59 AM

View PostAbivard, on 19 January 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

Rather biased view of things, Had hoped otherwise.


Since you provided absolutely NO detail as to why you think Necro's post ws biased, I just have to shake my head.

Personally, I think it sums up quite a lot of issues that I see with regards to how the game is being played. This may or may not be a factor of the extremely steep learning curve but I see all that happening.

#74 Necromantion

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 10:00 AM

View PostTycho von Gagern, on 21 January 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

You might have seen me. I'm running a Blackjack. If there's something way bigger than me tearing me apart (read as "just about everything on the field") I'm going to call in an arty strike. I'd love to get 4-8 mechs within the strike's radius, but even if it's just one Atlas (which is 2.10x my tonnage) it's a valid target. I've been on the recieving side of arty-spam. Fast movers rarely have a problem with it. When I get smashed by arty it's because I'm not playing my mech correctly.

I agree with SRM hit reg. Some are saying it's better now, some are saying it only effects salvos of 10 or more. I haven't tried them lately, so I can't say. Thing is, no one's using missiles anymore. I don't see how ballistic/energy balance is possible with the third element of the trifecta, missiles, being in such a sorry state.

Finally, the most glaring problem with players is absent from your post --unless I missed it. If so, apologies-- Too many assaults. Every class comes with weaknesses and advantages. Those slow heavies and assaults get to carry all the guns, but they are slow, big, and they draw fire (including arty strikes). Many of the "problems" laid at PGI's feet are, in truth, people who run assaults exclusively and want PGI to program away their build's shortcomings.

Anyway, great post. Thanks for sharing.


Your position on arty is valid since that is indeed tactical use. Makes sense to me though most mediums i pilot have a significantly higher mobility than the blackjack.

I still have a few builds with srm that i chain fire for some damage and more so to disrupt short range but streaks seem more useful for that since they are handy with lights.

Frankly I dont really feel threatened by assaults unless my team is really light with a good portion of it being mediums and non jenner lights.

#75 LastPaladin

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 10:48 AM

A lot of these problems, especially the frustrating behaviors of teammates, could be easily solved with in-game voice chat. Until the devs get around to implementing that, I don't think any amount of incentives or tutorials will help much.

#76 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 10:55 AM

I don't know Last, Scrubs will be scrubs. VOiP will just give em a voice to be heard by! :rolleyes:

#77 wanderer

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 11:03 AM

I disagree.

With premades and VOIP, my KDR was over 3, winrate over 66%.

Without them in PUG play, that KDR is .5 and my winrate well UNDER 50%.

I see people dying to things that simply can't be done typing- like getting shot to death and not being able to say on voice "Joe, lance on your six turn turn turn!" before you join me in the scrapheap. Or live-updating targets to focus on without having to take my hands off the controls- one button to voice is MUCH easier than turning off half my controls to type a message.

#78 Mudhutwarrior

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 11:16 AM

View Postwanderer, on 21 January 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

I disagree.

With premades and VOIP, my KDR was over 3, winrate over 66%.

Without them in PUG play, that KDR is .5 and my winrate well UNDER 50%.

I see people dying to things that simply can't be done typing- like getting shot to death and not being able to say on voice "Joe, lance on your six turn turn turn!" before you join me in the scrapheap. Or live-updating targets to focus on without having to take my hands off the controls- one button to voice is MUCH easier than turning off half my controls to type a message.


Thank you. I have tried to explain the obvious that quick intell and comms win in any real combat but it is ignored here and after a year of hearing every excuse fighting voip being implemented I am drawn to only one conclusion. Whatever the entity in power its number one goal is to remain in power. That is the only reason ingame voip is so often challenged.

#79 Mystere

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 11:42 AM

View PostSephlock, on 21 January 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

... (although I love it when people move back from the smoke thinking it is an Arty strike and eat my Airstrike :rolleyes:).


Ha! Ha! Ha!

You drop an artillery strike on a murder ball. After being pummeled into moving, many then form a line not knowing they just set themselves up for a perfect air strike.

Those rare situations are some of the most hilarious ... especially after the really colorful language that they generate.

:ph34r: :D :D

#80 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 11:44 AM

View Postwanderer, on 21 January 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

I disagree.

With premades and VOIP, my KDR was over 3, winrate over 66%.

Without them in PUG play, that KDR is .5 and my winrate well UNDER 50%.

I see people dying to things that simply can't be done typing- like getting shot to death and not being able to say on voice "Joe, lance on your six turn turn turn!" before you join me in the scrapheap. Or live-updating targets to focus on without having to take my hands off the controls- one button to voice is MUCH easier than turning off half my controls to type a message.

View PostMudhutwarrior, on 21 January 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:


Thank you. I have tried to explain the obvious that quick intell and comms win in any real combat but it is ignored here and after a year of hearing every excuse fighting voip being implemented I am drawn to only one conclusion. Whatever the entity in power its number one goal is to remain in power. That is the only reason ingame voip is so often challenged.

But again I face that as well every time I PUG. And I do that more than I drop with the Law. I could go get on TS3 and look to group up, but like you I choose not to, the difference is I am not blaming anyone for why we are losing. The better team wins every match. if that isn't my team so be it.





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