162 replies to this topic

[Denolven]

Victor Morson, on 05 February 2014 - 01:46 AM, said:

Again you attack (with obvious hatred) something you don't fully understand.

And you keep provoking him, which is just as bad.
Stop it, both. This is a forum for constructive discussion, not a mudslinging competition. I don't want to report you over something like this, but I'm going to if you continue like that.

[aniviron]

The hunchbacks all make great brawlers, especially if you're new to it. The HBK-4G and 4H both pack a nasty punch up close even with a standard engine, are relatively cheap to buy and outfit, and have a fantastic torso twist range that I found invaluable when I was learning to fight up close. My pick of the bunch is the 4H; but the 4SP does quite well for itself when missile hit registration isn't as bad as it is now. The 4P is a lot of fun (or was, until ghost heat came along) but it skirmishes much better than it brawls, though on Frozen City and Alpine you can brawl with it.

If you're looking for a medium brawler but the HBK isn't your cup of tea, the Cent is more durable than the HBK, but it trades firepower and a pretty significant amount of torso twist to do so. The Shadowhawk is pretty much better in every way except for torso twisting, with jumpjets, more armor, more hardpoints, better hardpoints, and no giant hunch to shoot off, but I don't run Shawks, so I can't give you much advice there.

If you're looking for something heavier, try the Victor- I run the VTR-9S as my preferred brawler. You're fast, mobile, heavily armored, and can pack a hell of a punch. You did mention you weren't looking for an XL engine, and normally I'd agree that it's a bad idea in a brawler. I do find that in the Victor however, that the XL makes very little difference to my survivability thanks to the large arms and relatively small side torsi. The difference for standard 310 vs 380XL (same weight) is 62kph vs 76 kph (84 with speed tweak!), and I feel that the increase in speed saves my life a lot more often than having the XL gets me killed when I was still otherwise able to fight. Being able to go 75-85kph in an assault not only helps you get into the Atlas' blind spot and stay there, it also means you're more or less immune to light harassment. When you combine that with jumpjets, you've both guns that can punch through just about anything paired with the ability to get close enough to use them.

Edited by aniviron, 05 February 2014 - 02:04 AM.

[Victor Morson]

Denolven, on 05 February 2014 - 01:53 AM, said:

And you keep provoking him, which is just as bad.
Stop it, both. This is a forum for constructive discussion, not a mudslinging competition. I don't want to report you over something like this, but I'm going to if you continue like that.

Effectively if someone posts something that's blatantly false, I will correct it for accuracy, as this is a thread for newbies to read. I harbor no personal ill will towards Shar Wolf and am finding his reaction really out of line to all of this.

We could just agree to disagree but he openly attacks everything I'm writing at this point, because he doesn't like it, while claiming this magic shield against being replied to about it.

I'm going to continue to speak my mind, and also point out when and why someone is wrong if they are, again, for newbies reading the thread. They can decide from reading these debates who is right, and frankly, I am pretty sure the last few pages will cement any new player's opinion into the right camp.

[Victor Morson]

aniviron, on 05 February 2014 - 01:56 AM, said:

9S as my preferred brawler. You're fast, mobile, heavily armored, and can pack a hell of a punch. You did mention you weren't looking for an XL engine, and normally I'd agree that it's a bad idea in a brawler. I do find that in the Victor however, that the XL makes very little difference to my survivability thanks to the large arms and relatively small side torsi. The difference for standard 310 vs 380XL (same weight) is 62kph vs 76 kph (84 with speed tweak!), and I feel that the increase in speed saves my life a lot more often than having the XL gets me killed when I was still otherwise able to fight. Being able to go 75-85kph in an assault not only helps you get into the Atlas' blind spot and stay there, it also means you're more or less immune to light harassment. When you combine that with jumpjets, you've both guns that can punch through just about anything paired with the ability to get close enough to use them.

First thing: You need to do something about those legs man! That's not a bad 9S setup at all gun wise, but you have the leg armor both dropped down almost a full third, while stuffing them full of ammo. This is a constant mistake made here and is a massively bad idea. If an experienced player spots that your legs aren't at 100%, they will blast them, and then that AC/20/SRM ammo stands a real chance of taking you out completely.

Likewise, Victors run Standard engines VERY, VERY well and almost every Victor we use runs standard. Excluding the Dragon Slayer they have split weapon mounts - and even the Dragon Slayer wants the "dead side" for a damage sponge. You can easily fit a good STD 300 design onto one.

That said, you can get away with an XL Victor. But not with that leg armor; it's asking for trouble.

Honestly your best bet is to dump those lasers and the arm, and rework it:
Victor SRM Brawler

[Denolven]

Victor Morson, on 05 February 2014 - 01:58 AM, said:

I harbor no personal ill will towards Shar Wolf

You might want to re-read you last few posts. To me they look just as offensive as the ones he posted. Just like the saying goes: "It takes two to tango."

Quote

I'm going to continue to speak my mind

Please do. Just keep in mind the above and try to avoid it or take it to a private playfield (PMs).

Edited by Denolven, 05 February 2014 - 02:19 AM.

[1453 R]

315STD...in a Victor...

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

How does that even work? How is that even worth playing over Metalanders for Leaguers who don't give a [REDACTED] about anything but winning? You've taken a Victor and robbed it of its single most crucial advantage over any other assault that isn't one of two Awesomes! @_@

Anyways.

Ahem:

PEOPLE. KNOCK IT THE [REDACTED] OFF.

This is the Guides and Strategies forum. Every single one of you who's saying "I'd be just fine if only those jerks would say that the Shadow Hawk is better 95% of the time instead of 100%!" is completely missing the point of this entire forum. A thread like this, which is not devoted to a single, specific build and how/why it works, DOES NOT CARE about fringe cases. It does not care about the one pilot in a thousand who is awesome in a Hunchback but is somehow completely unable to transfer those skills into the otherwise far superior Shadow Hawk. It does not care about this one configuration you've got for a 4H that works really awesome for you and totally blows your boring Meta Hawks out of the water. It does not care about your personal strategies, quirks, or favorite 'Mechs, because those are all for you to find out.

Let me lay this out, plain and simple, so people can try and stop getting horrifically butthurt over something they have no need to get horrifically butthurt about:

THERE IS NO PRACTICAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 95% AND 100% WHEN ONE IS SPEAKING, AS THIS THREAD DOES, TO THE GENERAL POPULATION OF MWO AND NOT TO A SPECIFIC PLAYER

Really. There isn't. And if you're taking as deep offense at the notion that Victor is talking in absolutes rather than possibilities for the sake of easy conversation, then substitute the 95% yourself. Because I guarantee you he's not talking to you, nor is he specifically raining on your parade.

Case in point!

Victor, my oft-falsely-maligned jerkbag sorta-frenemy: you remember how, in the LRM Commandments thread, I usually used my TBT-5N as a comparison to other folks' assault 'Mechs to try and illustrate the point that a medium Lurmisher can pull down just as much damage as they do while taking up only half the tonnage? Remember how you never once gave me guff about my choice of 'Mech, even though the TBT-5N is, in general use, decidedly suboptimal even within the TBT chassis whose only real advantage is a wider twist range (and better energy hardpoint distribution over the 3C I otherwise would have been stuck with, but still!)?

Here's the thing, folks: I never recommended that new players snag a TBT-5N as the best choice, hands down flat out, for a medium Lurmishing 'Mech.

None of us care what you pilot. You want to brawl with a Hunchback, be my guest. Do it up, and I wish you great joy of it. If you can consistently pull 500-damage games with the things, fantastic! Keep up the good work, sir! The only thing we're asking is that you STOP trying to get new players into 'Mechs that you KNOW are less versatile and flexible than something like a Hunchback for the sole reason of you having an axe to grind!

PLAY WHAT YOU WANT TO PLAY. I do - I'm just fortunate in that what I've pretty much always wanted to play was a Shadow Hawk. Put XL engines in Victors - please put XL engines in Victors, that 315STD design honestly makes me slightly ill >_<. Hell, put XL engines in Thunderbolts! I did, and it totally worked for me!

But unless you're writing a specific guide for a specific build with the specific message of "Hey, give this a shot, it worked a lot better than I figured it would," QUIT TRYING TO CLAIM FRINGE CASES DISPROVE THE NORM AND GET NEW PLAYERS WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WANT TO PILOT YET INTO HUNCHBACKS INSTEAD OF SHADOW HAWKS.

You're doing them a disservice, and you know it. No matter how much more you, personally, may like Hunchbacks over Shadow Hawks, from the perspective of a brand-new player who's going to be crap in both, you know what the better choice is.

YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS. SO STOP IT.

Edited by 1453 R, 05 February 2014 - 05:31 AM.

[Victor Morson]

1453 R, on 05 February 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

315STD...in a Victor...

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

To be fair, I don't actually endorse the AC20+3 SRM6 build right now with SRMs like they are, so most of my Victors run at least a 325 STD, but 315 isn't horrid.

1453 R, on 05 February 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

How does that even work? How is that even worth playing over Metalanders for Leaguers who don't give a [REDACTED] about anything but winning? You've taken a Victor and robbed it of its single most crucial advantage over any other assault that isn't one of two Awesomes! @_@

It blends incredibly well with the Highlander. Outside of just chassis restrictions, the Victor's biggest edge is that it's 10 tons lighter while carrying precisely the same amount of firepower as it's bigger brother.

Again, you can get away with some XL Victor builds - in particular in pugs - but most serious players basically treat it as either a heavy Cataphract, or a light Highlander. STD works great for those builds, in particular more ranged builds (2x PPC 2x (U)AC/5).

1453 R, on 05 February 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

Anyways.

Ahem:

PEOPLE. KNOCK IT THE [REDACTED] OFF.

This is the Guides and Strategies forum. Every single one of you who's saying "I'd be just fine if only those jerks would say that the Shadow Hawk is better 95% of the time instead of 100%!" is completely missing the point of this entire forum. A thread like this, which is not devoted to a single, specific build and how/why it works, DOES NOT CARE about fringe cases. It does not care about the one pilot in a thousand who is awesome in a Hunchback but is somehow completely unable to transfer those skills into the otherwise far superior Shadow Hawk. It does not care about this one configuration you've got for a 4H that works really awesome for you and totally blows your boring Meta Hawks out of the water. It does not care about your personal strategies, quirks, or favorite 'Mechs, because those are all for you to find out.

Let me lay this out, plain and simple, so people can try and stop getting horrifically butthurt over something they have no need to get horrifically butthurt about:

THERE IS NO PRACTICAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 95% AND 100% WHEN ONE IS SPEAKING, AS THIS THREAD DOES, TO THE GENERAL POPULATION OF MWO AND NOT TO A SPECIFIC PLAYER

Really. There isn't. And if you're taking as deep offense at the notion that Victor is talking in absolutes rather than possibilities for the sake of easy conversation, then substitute the 95% yourself. Because I guarantee you he's not talking to you, nor is he specifically raining on your parade.

Case in point!

Victor, my oft-falsely-maligned jerkbag sorta-frenemy: you remember how, in the LRM Commandments thread, I usually used my TBT-5N as a comparison to other folks' assault 'Mechs to try and illustrate the point that a medium Lurmisher can pull down just as much damage as they do while taking up only half the tonnage? Remember how you never once gave me guff about my choice of 'Mech, even though the TBT-5N is, in general use, decidedly suboptimal even within the TBT chassis whose only real advantage is a wider twist range (and better energy hardpoint distribution over the 3C I otherwise would have been stuck with, but still!)?

Here's the thing, folks: I never recommended that new players snag a TBT-5N as the best choice, hands down flat out, for a medium Lurmishing 'Mech.

None of us care what you pilot. You want to brawl with a Hunchback, be my guest. Do it up, and I wish you great joy of it. If you can consistently pull 500-damage games with the things, fantastic! Keep up the good work, sir! The only thing we're asking is that you STOP trying to get new players into 'Mechs that you KNOW are less versatile and flexible than something like a Hunchback for the sole reason of you having an axe to grind!

PLAY WHAT YOU WANT TO PLAY. I do - I'm just fortunate in that what I've pretty much always wanted to play was a Shadow Hawk. Put XL engines in Victors - please put XL engines in Victors, that 315STD design honestly makes me slightly ill >_<. Hell, put XL engines in Thunderbolts! I did, and it totally worked for me!

But unless you're writing a specific guide for a specific build with the specific message of "Hey, give this a shot, it worked a lot better than I figured it would," QUIT TRYING TO CLAIM FRINGE CASES DISPROVE THE NORM AND GET NEW PLAYERS WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WANT TO PILOT YET INTO HUNCHBACKS INSTEAD OF SHADOW HAWKS.

You're doing them a disservice, and you know it. No matter how much more you, personally, may like Hunchbacks over Shadow Hawks, from the perspective of a brand-new player who's going to be crap in both, you know what the better choice is.

YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS. SO STOP IT.

All very well said man.

I hope I cleared up why I endorse STD engine Victors a little bit too. In particular for the 9S/9B, because on a meta setup, if you lost your left torso/right torso, you still have either 2x PPC or 2x UAC/5 left. It works best on those kinds of builds, since they can hang in the back. I would endorse the STD engine on that SRM+AC/20 build as it's only 15 kph slower than mediums meant for brawling and should be able to act as a solid "heavy reinforcement." It's not a league build or anything but it would do fine in most games.

The Dragon Slayer ironically is the most popular serious build though, again using that dead-torso as a pure damage shield. Very solid hero.

All that said if anyone feels like running XL on a Victor - in particular in pug games - it's a 'mech that can handle really large XLs and get great performance out of them, so it's entirely viable on that score. It's not something like the Cent 9A where you always want to run STD or anything.

Edited by Victor Morson, 05 February 2014 - 11:23 AM.

[aniviron]

Victor Morson, on 05 February 2014 - 02:05 AM, said:

First thing: You need to do something about those legs man! That's not a bad 9S setup at all gun wise, but you have the leg armor both dropped down almost a full third, while stuffing them full of ammo. This is a constant mistake made here and is a massively bad idea. If an experienced player spots that your legs aren't at 100%, they will blast them, and then that AC/20/SRM ammo stands a real chance of taking you out completely.

Likewise, Victors run Standard engines VERY, VERY well and almost every Victor we use runs standard. Excluding the Dragon Slayer they have split weapon mounts - and even the Dragon Slayer wants the "dead side" for a damage sponge. You can easily fit a good STD 300 design onto one.

That said, you can get away with an XL Victor. But not with that leg armor; it's asking for trouble.

Honestly your best bet is to dump those lasers and the arm, and rework it:
Victor SRM Brawler

I do think that outside of pug play, that's a much better build- the XL and skimping on ammo are certainly both asking for trouble, I will admit. This is the new player help forum though, and so I tailor my builds with that in mind.

The build you link is very very solid, and is probably pretty close to optimal, but only in a situation where SRMs register damage consistently. The nice thing about the lasers is that it gives you a little hitting power against lights who can easily soak up 100+ srms without taking much damage even while shutdown. In a 12-man, your build is pretty clearly the winner, but I think there's something to be said for mine in a pug (well, okay, 2ac5 + 2ppc is clearly the 12-man build, but you know what I mean).

[Alaskan Nobody]

Grats on proving my point about harrasment Vic - and proving my point about not being smart enough to realize you are being trolled.

I apologize to the rest of you (seriously)

Frankly any of the mediums except the Cicada can brawl up to a point - and literally any of the heavies (even the Catapult if you go SSRM or SRM focused)

So my ultimate recommendation would be to pick whatever the hell you think looks like it would be FUN to pilot - and then put your effort into learning more how the core of the game functions rather than the current Meta.
(IE learning to torso twist and manage heat / poptarting properly if your mech has JJ rather than sitting in the same place type of thing)

Shar out - like Victors brain.

[Victor Morson]

aniviron, on 05 February 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

I do think that outside of pug play, that's a much better build- the XL and skimping on ammo are certainly both asking for trouble, I will admit. This is the new player help forum though, and so I tailor my builds with that in mind.

I think the leg armor thing is a big deal even in pug play. The way ELO is I routinely get dropped against both Merc Star people AND people who are in trials for the first time. So it's always a danger to skimp on leg armor, in particular when you stuff them full of ammo. He could definitely get away with taking the build I posted and slapping an XL in it instead, though, and maintain 100% leg armor - maybe even slap those meds back in.

[Victor Morson]

Shar Wolf, on 05 February 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

Grats on proving my point about harrasment Vic - and proving my point about not being smart enough to realize you are being trolled.

"I will never reply to you again."
"IGNORE LIST!"
"IGNORE LIST!"
"HAVE A NICE LIFE I'M NEVER WRITING AGAIN"
"IGNORE LIST!!!"

And you're still replying to me while claiming I'm somehow harassing you. heh

Why don't you do one thing you say and I don't know, put me on an ignore list? Like, for real? Then you can blissfully ignore everything I say without feeling the need to reply to it every single time. This is just really silly and I dare say is not helping your general credibility here.

Shar Wolf, on 05 February 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

I apologize to the rest of you (seriously)

Frankly any of the mediums except the Cicada can brawl up to a point - and literally any of the heavies (even the Catapult if you go SSRM or SRM focused)

The Cicada can brawl, heh. But some are better than others. Big time.

Shar Wolf, on 05 February 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

So my ultimate recommendation would be to pick whatever the hell you think looks like it would be FUN to pilot - and then put your effort into learning more how the core of the game functions rather than the current Meta.

And I think most pilots would have the most fun starting in something really good, and thus, continue to suggest really good 'mechs to new pilots. See how that works?

Shar Wolf, on 05 February 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

(IE learning to torso twist and manage heat / poptarting properly if your mech has JJ rather than sitting in the same place type of thing)

Your view of the meta is still over a year old.

Shar Wolf, on 05 February 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

Shar out - like Victors brain.

Until the next reply, when you can tell me how hard you are ignoring me again!

[Alaskan Nobody]

Victor: you do realize there are terms for people who keep calling another person (and quoting people in the forums puts up a flag saying "Hey Listen!") who has repeatedly told them the do not want to hear from them?

Thanks for adding yet another tally to the case against you with the mods: you have passed a dozen this month alone!

[Victor Morson]

Shar Wolf, on 05 February 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

Victor: you do realize there are terms for people who keep calling another person (and quoting people in the forums puts up a flag saying "Hey Listen!") who has repeatedly told them the do not want to hear from them?

Thanks for adding yet another tally to the case against you with the mods: you have passed a dozen this month alone!

That is not what is happening here.

This is you walking into a public discussion and stating your opinions as facts, and telling anyone who then speaks to the forum and picks apart points you've made as "harassing you."

You aren't understanding that replying to you isn't replying to you. You are taking part in a public conversation and so am I. When you make incorrect statements in a public forum I am allowed to counter them in a public forum. That is how they work.

I'm not following you to other threads, I'm not hounding you personally, I'm not PM'ing you at all, I'm not going outside of the website, I am not insulting you personally and I am not threatening you. I am not harassing you.

[Alaskan Nobody]

You have quoted me more than 20 times (As in I have received notification more than 20 times) in this topic ALONE this month.


Teacher: "Now class: what how do you refer to someone who keeps calling you 20 or more times in 5 days to mock and insult you?"

Class: "We are not allowed to use that kind of language here teacher!"

Teacher: "That is right children, because the terminology for such individuals is not suited for polite company"

Thanks for yet again strengthening my case Vic ol' buddy.

[1453 R]

Shar.

Enough.

Just let it go, please. You're as capable of ignoring forum alerts as the rest of us. You're not even trying to contribute to the discussion anymore, you're just pitching a fit because Victor won't make nice with you. Stop it. You're not on top in this one, you're not convincing anybody. Just actually do what you've been claiming to do for five pages know and ignore him. You don't need technological help to do it, even! Just...stop posting in response to anything he says. Like how you'd ignore someone in real life by not speaking to them or acknowledging their presence without having to write their name in a little "Ignore'd" notebook?

And Victor...do us all a favor and stop quoting Shar? I'm pretty certain we've established in absolutely everyone's mind what you two's opinions of each other are. What tattered shambles are left of this thread would really appreciate a breather.

[Alaskan Nobody]

1453 R, on 05 February 2014 - 08:19 PM, said:

You're just trolling him because Victor won't make nice with anyone who disagrees with him.

Fixed that for you.

This discussion ended pages ago - the OP has not even logged in since mid-January.

[Victor Morson]

That's entirely not true. I am totally cool with a number of players out here that chose not to run top-tier stuff, or run builds I think might be bad. I offer advice to those folks to help the kinds of builds they like to run even - in another thread I was helping someone buff the leg armor on an AC20+SRM Victor, for example.

The only difference is you keep talking to newbies in threads and telling them invalid things, and thus, I reply. Though I agree, this has gotten very silly and I'd really like it to just stop at this point pages ago.

If you post in a thread saying things I disagree with - perhaps not this thread - I will continue to reply, but again, it's to contribute to the forum discussion and not necessarily so much talking to you specifically. That said, I'd be more than happy if you chose to actually ignore me Shar, as again, I've got absolutely 0% ill will towards you as a person for your tactical views. In fact the only thing that has made me feel negatively about you as a person is the way you are handling this discussion.

Shar Wolf, on 05 February 2014 - 07:52 PM, said:

You have quoted me more than 20 times (As in I have received notification more than 20 times) in this topic ALONE this month.

I don't even turn on my thread notifications. I just stop by here on my 2nd monitor a bunch. Perhaps you should turn yours off too if it bothers you?

Also you've quoted me as much, if not more, over the history of these forums and probably even in this thread.

Let's just agree to return to a civil debate, please?

Edited by Victor Morson, 05 February 2014 - 09:22 PM.

[Decoy3]

Shar Wolf, on 05 February 2014 - 08:42 PM, said:

Fixed that for you.

This discussion ended pages ago - the OP has not even logged in since mid-January.

Other people might find this thread relevant to their interests. No need to intentionally clutter it by trolling.

[Kaishaku]

Personally in my experience the best brawlers are mediums. With brawlers you want something that is quick so if you get in a bad spot you can duck and run or twist the torso quickly to spread damage. You will need good piloting skills because being up close and personal means your gonna cop a lot of attention.

Centurions

Pros: Fast, agile and cheap. Doesn't need a XL to be effective. One of the best zombie mechs out there.

Cons: Lack of JJ and lack of tonnage

My pick: CN9-A standard engine, AC10, Med Lasersx2 and SSRMx3. Good heat management and all round weapon loadout. Good for medium to close range and deadly vs lights.

Hunchback

Fast and agile like the centurions these guys also spot a high ballistics slot and have lots of weapon hard points for high alpha hit and runs and lots of customisation.

Pros: Fast agile and cheap. Lots of weapon hard points and lots of variants you can pick from. Also doesn't matter if you go XL or not because if you lose your side torso your more or less dead anyway. I don't run XL in my hunchies anymore but that's a personal decision.

Cons: Lack of JJ. With the exception of 4SP alot of your arsenal is located in the hunch. Lose that and your more or less a stick.

My pick: Honestly they are all good, build one that suits your style. Personally I run a 4SP and 4J, but Im also more than handy with the Grid Iron.

Shadowhawk

Probably best for last and currant flavour of the month. Fast mobile and can jump - not to mention has a bit more tonnage to squeeze some more firepower in.

Pros: Highly mobile with the JJ and a big XL engine. Has a high mounted (up to 3) ballistics slot - very cool.

Cons: None really these bad boys are awesome.

My pick: Probably the most powerful variant atm is the 2D2 because you can have 4 SSRMs. I run mine with 2 LL and 4 SSRMS stalkers and atlas's have a miserable time trying to hit me as I dance around them. Also its the bane of all lights that arent protected by ECM. Honourable mention goes to the 2H with its 3 high up ballistic spots.

Edited by Kaishaku, 06 February 2014 - 04:54 AM.

[Buckminster]

I've been a fan of the Wolverines for brawling. They have more jump jets and a bit more twist than the Shadow Hawks, which is really nice when you're up close and personal.

My -6R has been something like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0108f80daeadc81
I know it's goofy, I haven't spent the money to put DHS on it yet so it can stand some improvement. Honestly, this was me just messing around because I thought a flamer in the head would look funny, and while playing with weapon loadouts I realized that I just haven't used SRMs much in awhile. It turned out to be far more effective than I would have expected.

My -7K is something like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cd89917899cc33e
It is a little vulnerable with both large lasers in the one arm, but it also packs a lot of punch.