25 replies to this topic

[chevy42083]

First off.... I love computers, but never have kept up with specs... never needed to. I get lost when comparing them, which is why i'm asking here.
This is the first graphics intense game I've played (think red alert/command and conquer). At "low" setting, my fps was playable in the upper teens to mid 20s.... might drop towards 10 in intense combat. As updates/patches have progressed, fps seems to suffer. I might look at small tweaks... except I think I'd enjoy the game MUCH better at a higher setting.
Side note: I do process/edit lots of HD video, so if it'd help speed up that... bonus.
I'm not looking to build/buy a whole new computer (money), but I'm not a kid... just an adult with a smallish budget.

Current
Cyberpower GUA380 build
Win 8.1 64bit
AMD FX-4100 Quad Core - 3.6GHz
2x4GB ram (can upgrade to 2x8GB)
NVidia GeForce GT 610
Power supply rated at 350 according to google-foo. I know cyberpower gets complaints on this, not sure what I model.

So... where should I start? What would get it running well on low settings? And what would get it running well higher than that?


<Disclaimer - I didn't buy this pc to game... it just enabled me to try MWO, so now I'm trying to make it work.>

Also, for reference....
21-23 FPS during the loading chat screen
11-17 once I watch my lance start to walk away from me
7-10 once I get into a fight with weapons/mechs around.
These #s are pretty much the same on all maps.

I've resorted to playing my LRM build... cause I just can't snipe/aim or brawl with these FPS.

[Egomane]

CPU is fine if you don't expect top-notch performance.

Your problem is definatly the GPU. The GT610 is as weak as they can get. My android tablet probably has more graphical power then that one. I'd also look at getting another power supply unit. The reviews I just googled for Cyberpower are disheartening.

Do you have a budget we can work with and a region/nation where you preferably want to buy?

[chevy42083]

United States
Budget.... ~$200? (not hard line budget, but ballpark) Like I said, I'm an adult, not a kid... but also don't want to spend a TON on something that's really only used as an occasional gamer. That's why I hadn't upgraded before... but now it's just frustrating to even try to play.

I guess a decent way to put it... best GPU that will actually be utilized by the CPU? No sense in going top-notch if the CPU can't handle it.

Yes, the reviews on the power supply are horrible... but they all center around it failing. Possibly why this PC was a factory return/refurbish/scratchdNdent at less than 1/2 price?

[Rhalgaln]

get an AMD GPU: I think an 6870 should be in budget.
Maybe you should get an new powersupply too if the 6870 doesn't work, but the 6870 uses far less power than newer GPUs and I had 40+ frames with that one.

if you can afford a new power supply (500W+) and an AMD R9 280 you will be fine with the rest of you current computer.
this will bring you to 60 frames almost all the time. (I have Vsync enabled so 60 frames is my max)

[Shamous13]

a amd 7870 is under $200 and a better choice then the 6870. I wouldn't waist my money on a 68 series chip set. also make sure what ever video card you get has 2gb of ram.

Edited by Shamous13, 22 January 2014 - 06:13 AM.

[Egomane]

Ok... so I looked at some components at newegg.

Here are some PSUs that should all be better then your current one and they all come with a mail in rebate.
CORSAIR CX series CX500 59.99 $ (39.99 after rebate)
RAIDMAX RX-535AP 44.99 $ (29.99 after rebate)
Thermaltake SMART Series SP-550PCBUS 49.99 $ (39.99 after rebate)
of those three, the Thermaltake would be my favorite for it's five year warranty.

That leaves us with ~150.- $ for a GPU
XFX Core Edition FX-785A-CNL4 Radeon HD 7850 2GB 169.99 $ (139.99 $ after rebate)
PowerColor AX7870 2GBD5-2DHV4E/OC Radeon HD 7870 GHz Edition 2GB 189.99 $ (159.99.- $ after rebate)

The 20.- $ more for the 7870 GHz are worth it, so I'd go with this one.

I'm pretty sure that others will be able to find even better deals, as that was my first time trying to find good offers on newegg or the US market in general. But at least it should be good as a guideline.

[Grey Death Storm]

chevy42083, on 22 January 2014 - 04:59 AM, said:

First off.... I love computers, but never have kept up with specs... never needed to. I get lost when comparing them, which is why i'm asking here.
This is the first graphics intense game I've played (think red alert/command and conquer). At "low" setting, my fps was playable in the upper teens to mid 20s.... might drop towards 10 in intense combat. As updates/patches have progressed, fps seems to suffer. I might look at small tweaks... except I think I'd enjoy the game MUCH better at a higher setting.
Side note: I do process/edit lots of HD video, so if it'd help speed up that... bonus.
I'm not looking to build/buy a whole new computer (money), but I'm not a kid... just an adult with a smallish budget.

Current
Cyberpower GUA380 build
Win 8.1 64bit
AMD FX-4100 Quad Core - 3.6GHz
2x4GB ram (can upgrade to 2x8GB)
NVidia GeForce GT 610
Power supply rated at 350 according to google-foo. I know cyberpower gets complaints on this, not sure what I model.

So... where should I start? What would get it running well on low settings? And what would get it running well higher than that?


<Disclaimer - I didn't buy this pc to game... it just enabled me to try MWO, so now I'm trying to make it work.>

Also, for reference....
21-23 FPS during the loading chat screen
11-17 once I watch my lance start to walk away from me
7-10 once I get into a fight with weapons/mechs around.
These #s are pretty much the same on all maps.

I've resorted to playing my LRM build... cause I just can't snipe/aim or brawl with these FPS.

Hi Chevy

to answer your question in a fashion you need to ask yourself what are you going to be using the system for and how much are you willing to spend, you already mentioned you like gaming and you do a lot video editing already I can tell you you will want to use Intel CPU.

Range in money

Low end PC £300-£700, Mid Range PC £800-£1000 and High end £1000 - £1600 bring me back to your personal needs you would be Mid range to High end as gaming and video editing are resource hungry.


When comes technical Jarring when building PCs from scratch main considerations are all below represent a potential bottle neck in performance

• Motherboard - Speed MAR - Memory address registry, MDR - Memory Data Register - speed sends data too and from RAM and CPU
  
• CPU - How many cores (Quad Core 4 x CPU) in Processor plus how fast level 1 and 2 memory cache running at
  
• RAM - memory frequency is it 1333MHZ, 1600MHZ and 1866MHZ Higher is faster
  
• HARD DISK - what speed the disk is spinning at 5400 rpm, 7200rpm or 10000 rpm higher is faster
  
• Graphics Card - GPU clock how fast it runs - best going for high end Graphics card.
  
• PSU - you need have good power supply as need be able run computer enough power or you will get system stability issues
  
• Network is it wi-fi or Ethernet - connected Router (wired Ethernet is better as it solid connection and offers fast bandwidth speeds

all the above can affect performance cause bottle necks.




If you plan build from scratch if you buy expensive CPU do not by cheep Motherboard, Hard drive, RAM, Graphics Card
or you can buy a good PC

simple solution would be belowhowever i build computers and prefer buy all my components this for advanced users

Check out Alienware Aurora starting price £1099
http://www.dell.com/...rora-r4/**.aspx - (copy paste link into top left search bar in your internet browser) as clicking on link come up dell error

PS if you decided to buy the Alienware DO NOT pick Windows 8 make sure you go for Windows 7

I hope this helps you out

Edited by Death Storm, 22 January 2014 - 06:48 AM.

[Shamous13]

He doesn't need an intil cpu to get good fps. this game only uses 4 cores so the cpu he has will work. he could upgrade to a fx8350 if he cant get past the cpu bottleneck, but first he has to fix his gpu bottleneck. after that then he cold do a slight oc on the cpu

[DocBach]

Shamous13, on 22 January 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

He doesn't need an intil cpu to get good fps. this game only uses 4 cores so the cpu he has will work. he could upgrade to a fx8350 if he cant get past the cpu bottleneck, but first he has to fix his gpu bottleneck. after that then he cold do a slight oc on the cpu

If the motherboard is as high end as the rest of the stuff cyberpower uses he might be restricted to lower TDP CPU's; a lot of the lower end AM3+ boards can't handle the 8 core FX CPUs.

Still, an FX6300 can be got around $120, sometimes as low as $94 (how much I got mine on a Tigerdirect sale), and would be a good upgrade later down the line after the GPU/PSU. Egomane's recommendation of a 78 series AMD board with a 500w PSU would be what I would go with unless there are deals on GTX660s that are less expensive.

edit: http://pcpartpicker....ard-02gp42662kr

newegg has a promo right now for the GTX660 - $160 after a mail in rebate which puts it at 7850 level costs and it comes with the new Assassins Creed game.

Edited by DocBach, 22 January 2014 - 07:03 AM.

[Catamount]

Ego, I'm afraid you missed the most obvious brand of the power supplies : http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817182199

Now if the OP really likes mail-in rebates, that Raidmax PSU might be alright, and it's modular, but honestly, raidmax PSUs are a game of Russian Roulette, so anything cheap from them (like a $45 modular 535W PSU) is probably going to explode :/


Good GPU recommendations all around though. Frankly, between the 660 and the 7870, I'd take the 7870 for a general gaming machine, because at the end of the day, I'd rather have Mantle access than any other feature, especially since AMD is going to offer the benefits of Gsync in a free software pack it looks like, which nullifies the one real feature of Nvidia, at least long-term.

So I think Ego's 7870 is probably the way to go, especially since it's $149 after MiR if the OP buys it now and gets the promo code.

Edited by Catamount, 22 January 2014 - 07:30 AM.

[Lord Letto]

I Use a Used EVGA 560TI 2GB (02g-p3-1568-KR) that I Picked up for $120 Localy on Kijiji (Canadian CL In a matter of speaking), with my FX-4100 that I was able to Overclock to 4.4 GHz with a CoolerMaster Hyper 212Plus CPU Cooler (Air Cooled) and a Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Revision 1.1 Motherboard, I Get:
Max/60-70 FPS during the Ready and Ending chat screen
Average 30-40 Range while moving around
20-30 range with a few small spikes into the teens sometimes
It is basically like that on all Graphic settings (I Play on Very High) with a 1280x1024 Resolution (Max for my old HP Pavilion mx70 Monitor)in Full Windowed mode (Between Windowed and full screen). Next Upgrade would be a 6 or 8 Core FX after I get another OS, I Currently use Windows 8.1 Preview that restarts every 2 hours cause it's expired now.

Edited by Lord Letto, 22 January 2014 - 07:44 AM.

[Grey Death Storm]

Shamous13, on 22 January 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

He doesn't need an intil cpu to get good fps. this game only uses 4 cores so the cpu he has will work. he could upgrade to a fx8350 if he cant get past the cpu bottleneck, but first he has to fix his gpu bottleneck. after that then he cold do a slight oc on the cpu

He also points out he does a lot video editing and Intel CPUs are better for this type of work.

Also you are missing core elements that can cause System Bottle necks see below

• Motherboard - Speed MAR - Memory address registry, MDR - Memory Data Register - speed sends data too and from RAM and CPU
  
• CPU - How many cores (Quad Core 4 x CPU) in Processor plus how fast level 1 and 2 memory cache running at
  
• RAM - memory frequency is it 1333MHZ, 1600MHZ and 1866MHZ Higher is faster
  
• HARD DISK - what speed the disk is spinning at 5400 rpm, 7200rpm or 10000 rpm higher is faster
  
• Graphics Card - GPU clock how fast it runs - best going for high end Graphics card.
  
• PSU - you need have good power supply as need be able run computer enough power or you will get system stability issues
  
• Network is it wi-fi or Ethernet - connected Router (wired Ethernet is better as it solid connection and offers fast bandwidth speeds

Edited by Death Storm, 22 January 2014 - 07:58 AM.

[Egomane]

Catamount, on 22 January 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

Ego, I'm afraid you missed the most obvious brand of the power supplies : http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817182199

Now if the OP really likes mail-in rebates, that Raidmax PSU might be alright, and it's modular, but honestly, raidmax PSUs are a game of Russian Roulette, so anything cheap from them (like a $45 modular 535W PSU) is probably going to explode :/

Well, to be honest...
I'm not familiar with either brand, so I just looked at the stats, price and average review rating. But I remember that you told me before that those Rosewill Greens are good. So replace my Raidmax recomendation with the Rosewill and we have three PSUs at 39.99 $. I'd probably still go with the Thermaltake though.

[Shamous13]

chevy42083, on 22 January 2014 - 04:59 AM, said:

Side note: I do process/edit lots of HD video, so if it'd help speed up that... bonus.
I'm not looking to build/buy a whole new computer (money), but I'm not a kid... just an adult with a smallish budget.

he also doesn't want to build a new computer. I do a lot of up-converting of my old dvd's to hd1080p with my fx8350 and the software does utilize all 8 cores. again this comes down to the intil vs amd discussion. imho AMD's are better at cretin applications where as intil are better for gaming at this point in time.

[Grey Death Storm]

Shamous13, on 22 January 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

he also doesn't want to build a new computer. I do a lot of up-converting of my old dvd's to hd1080p with my fx8350 and the software does utilize all 8 cores. again this comes down to the intil vs amd discussion. imho AMD's are better at cretin applications where as intil are better for gaming at this point in time.

AMD 8 x core cpus lets start with 8150 was not efficiently designed CPU because windows OS kernel only mainly deals with 4 cores CPU and not 8 Core, The AMD pile driver was born AMD FX 8350 which was a vast improvement over 8150 CPU. However still boils down to the fact windows kernel algorithm was mainly designed to deal with 4 core CPUS and not 8 x Core.

This is why if you read any review on the AMD FX 8150 CPU benchmark you will know that AMD FX 8150 CPU did not use all its potential performance power making it fail to compete with the Intel i7 CPUs

AMD released in mid 2013 9590 and 9370 sales have failed AMD Flag ship CPU still struggle to keep up with Intel CPU.

AMD CPU are excellent for gaming PCs However struggle with complex calculations and video editing and Auto Cad based Graphics programs

Intel are Good with games and are able deal with complex calculations complex calculations and video editing and Auto Cad based Graphics programs and pritty much wipe the floor AMD

Dont get me wrong I was AMD fan for a while but I realized that Intel had the advantage because Intel Motherboard have PCI 3 expansion slots which provides Graphics card that where designed for PCI 3 Expansion slots the full band width speeds for performance.

AMD motherboard are not capable dealing with PCI3 capable Graphics card which gives a potential Bottle neck on Graphics Cards.

Edited by Death Storm, 22 January 2014 - 09:46 AM.

[Shamous13]

Death Storm, on 22 January 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

Dont get me wrong I was AMD fan for a while but I realized that Intel had the advantage because Intel Motherboard have PCI 3 expansion slots which provides Graphics card that where designed for PCI 3 Expansion slots the full band width speeds for performance.

AMD motherboard are not capable dealing with PCI3 capable Graphics card which gives a potential Bottle neck on Graphics Cards.

interesting, I didn't know this, I guess I have some reading to do.

Edit: do you have a link to an article?

Edited by Shamous13, 22 January 2014 - 10:26 AM.

[Smokeyjedi]

Egomane, on 22 January 2014 - 06:15 AM, said:

Ok... so I looked at some components at newegg.

Here are some PSUs that should all be better then your current one and they all come with a mail in rebate.
CORSAIR CX series CX500 59.99 $ (39.99 after rebate)
RAIDMAX RX-535AP 44.99 $ (29.99 after rebate)
Thermaltake SMART Series SP-550PCBUS 49.99 $ (39.99 after rebate)
of those three, the Thermaltake would be my favorite for it's five year warranty.

That leaves us with ~150.- $ for a GPU
XFX Core Edition FX-785A-CNL4 Radeon HD 7850 2GB 169.99 $ (139.99 $ after rebate)
PowerColor AX7870 2GBD5-2DHV4E/OC Radeon HD 7870 GHz Edition 2GB 189.99 $ (159.99.- $ after rebate)

The 20.- $ more for the 7870 GHz are worth it, so I'd go with this one.

I'm pretty sure that others will be able to find even better deals, as that was my first time trying to find good offers on newegg or the US market in general. But at least it should be good as a guideline.

What he said, damn hes good, Nothing to dispute about this at all.........

[Smokeyjedi]

Some people need to realize he wasn't asking how to build or upgrade his machine to absolute critical performance, just a simple effective purchase or two....to make it playable, why the intel vs AMD discussion, he uses a 4100, thats perfectly fine for his first CPU GPU combo! .....50$ PSU,500-600W 150$GPU up to 7870? and depending on his MOBO a mild to moderate CPU OC(4.5ghz) with new air cooler(30-40$) would set him miles ahead of where he is now, probably going over the 200$ mark by 20$ or less for cost of thermal paste...........for more than double the raw FPS in MWO he had to begin with.......and than we discuss mantle after that.......hed be tickled pink.

[Grey Death Storm]

Shamous13, on 22 January 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

interesting, I didn't know this, I guess I have some reading to do.

Edit: do you have a link to an article?

Hi Shamous13

I don't have an actual link to this info, however when i was building my new computer I was doing some investigation on why AMD motherboards only supported PCI2 slot, i would try typing in "why AMD3 + Motherboards don't support PCI 3 expansion slots.

also when i searched online AMD motherboards i could not find one AMD3 + sockets motherboard that supports PCI 3.

[Grey Death Storm]

Smokeyjedi, on 22 January 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

Some people need to realize he wasn't asking how to build or upgrade his machine to absolute critical performance, just a simple effective purchase or two....to make it playable, why the intel vs AMD discussion, he uses a 4100, thats perfectly fine for his first CPU GPU combo! .....50$ PSU,500-600W 150$GPU up to 7870? and depending on his MOBO a mild to moderate CPU OC(4.5ghz) with new air cooler(30-40$) would set him miles ahead of where he is now, probably going over the 200$ mark by 20$ or less for cost of thermal paste...........for more than double the raw FPS in MWO he had to begin with.......and than we discuss mantle after that.......hed be tickled pink.

Ideally if he is just upgrading all he really need to upgrade is his Graphics Card and his PSU he also may want to investigate his broadband bandwidth speeds i.e. is he Wi Fi or is he Ethernet and how many mb per sec data transfer as Mechwarrior is an online game.

However in the long run how old is his computer ? if its an old motherboard may be advisable to upgrade it