109 replies to this topic

[NextGame]

Quote

this is my problem with you

For realsies?! I'll have you know that without my input, 10's of people would not have been entertained on a slow moving Thursday afternoon. You owe me big time for injecting some life into this thread!

Edited by NextGame, 23 January 2014 - 08:50 AM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

NextGame, on 23 January 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

For realsies?! I'll have you know that without my input, 10's of people would not have been entertained on a slow moving Thursday afternoon. You owe me big time for bringing this thread to life!

you got a point

[Sidekick]

Edit: WHOA, holy spelling, Batman! I really shouldn´t post with the flu in my head! Please ignore missing words/letters.

Bloodwolf...

I really have to ask you to stop "defending" PGI. I see you like MWO and I see you have an issue with those who attack the devs for the recent (recent in the context of "end of Closed Beta") issues.

But your way of argumentation is quite counter-productive. or to put it differently:

(Begin of fever dream, read on own risk)

Spoiler

There is no meaner way to attack PGI than the way you (try to) defend them.
If we would follow your argumentation, and NG is doing it (for fun), the staff of PGI would have problems filling in an xls file. If the things are like you describe, like those "woah wtf moments in UI programming" the staff would really ride the short bus to work.


Let me tell you something.

Ressource allocation is one thing, and I think it is the most important issue.
But that issue has been discussed to death, so let´s NOT talk about it.


Let´s talk about those "wtf" moments PGI had in the past. There were some, and they were quite glorious.

There was the (famous) 4fps bug. In some matches, players fps was dropping due an unknown reason. Later, they found out that when an atlas died, the hitbox was still in the game and started inflating, conflicting with all other collision meshes, causing all involved players to loose framerate.
It was a hell of a bug. and the method it was discouvered was awesome. Some players started to drop in 8´s without certain chassis. So they filtered out one chassis by the time till they found the responsible model.

There was the quite entertaining "calleidoscope HUD" Bug, there was the damage extension via missle blast issue, there are still several hitbox-denial issues, there was the "knockdown desynchrinisation bug" that was essentially solved by removing knockdowns.....

there are lots and lots of issues the coding team of PGI is trying to tackle. but in the same time they try to progress the game. But while doing that, they try to implement and cultivate monetizing items/mechs that are important vor MWO´s economic viability.

And that´s the point. For quite a long time, UI1.0/1.5 was economically viable. So while UI2.0 was talked about, it wasn´t reqiured from an sellers standpoint. So the design department was drawing demos and the management was reffering the whats and whys of the next to the marketing who sold us on it... but it wasn´t required to actually introduce UI2.0 (and CW and lobbie) because the management saw those as unimportant in an production line sense.

And the issue was and is: If you don´t get money to to it, don´t do it! If you don´t pay your car salesman for a new set of tires and ask him to polish the rims, he will take of the rims, remove the tires, polish the metal and put on the old tires again. Why? Why not? You didn´t give him any money for new tires.

And that has happend for the last year. We were ignorant customers (look at my tags) and the seller was just following our lead.

Don´t try to pull out arguments and excuses that were never made in that way. Because right now, most of the people involved know what went wrong and most responsible parties are quite ashamed by it.

Edited by Sidekick, 23 January 2014 - 01:39 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Christ dude, you make no sense, and you didn't read what i said, i can tell. I dont sit and defend all day, as a matter of fact i Realize and acknowledge Next games points, even if i dont agree with some of them but for heavens sakes man, you just spit out nonsense. I know, i know, the past, the past its fun. Your angry because you bought a package for what you thought you knew what you wanted and now want to get you money back. I get it. You completely mistook me, to put it real plainly, you know, just go back and read it. Next game may have been in the same boat as you but jeez he makes you look like a second grader.

Sidekick, on 23 January 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

Edit: WHOA, holy spelling, Batman! I really shouldn´t post with the flu in my head! Please ignore missing words/letters.

Bloodwolf...

I really have to ask you to stop "defending" PGI. I see you like MWO and I see you have an issue with those who attack the devs for the recent (recent in the context of "end of Closed Beta") issues.

But your way of argumentation is quite counter-productive. or to put it differently:

There is no meaner way to attack PGI than the way you (try to) defend them.
If we would follow your argumentation, and NG is doing it (for fun), the staff of PGI would have problems filling in an xls file. If the things are like you describe, like those "woah wtf moments in UI programming" the staff would really ride the short bus to work.


Let me tell you something.

Ressource allocation is one thing, and I think it is the most important issue.
But that issue has been discussed to death, so let´s NOT talk about it.


Let´s talk about those "wtf" moments PGI had in the past. There were some, and they were quite glorious.

There was the (famous) 4fps bug. In some matches, players fps was dropping due an unknown reason. Later, they found out that when an atlas died, the hitbox was still in the game and started inflating, conflicting with all other collision meshes, causing all involved players to loose framerate.
It was a hell of a bug. and the method it was discouvered was awesome. Some players started to drop in 8´s without certain chassis. So they filtered out one chassis by the time till they found the responsible model.

There was the quite entertaining "calleidoscope HUD" Bug, there was the damage extension via missle blast issue, there are still several hitbox-denial issues, there was the "knockdown desynchrinisation bug" that was essentially solved by removing knockdowns.....

there are lots and lots of issues the coding team of PGI is trying to tackle. but in the same time they try to progress the game. But while doing that, they try to implement and cultivate monetizing items/mechs that are important vor MWO´s economic viability.

And that´s the point. For quite a long time, UI1.0/1.5 was economically viable. So while UI2.0 was talked about, it wasn´t reqiured from an sellers standpoint. So the design department was drawing demos and the management was reffering the whats and whys of the next to the marketing who sold us on it... but it wasn´t required to actually introduce UI2.0 (and CW and lobbie) because the management saw those as unimportant in an production line sense.

And the issue was and is: If you don´t get money to to it, don´t do it! If you don´t pay your car salesman for a new set of tires and ask him to polish the rims, he will take of the rims, remove the tires, polish the metal and put on the old tires again. Why? Why not? You didn´t give him any money for new tires.

And that has happend for the last year. We were ignorant customers (look at my tags) and the seller was just following our lead.

Don´t try to pull out arguments and excuses that were never made in that way. Because right now, most of the people involved know what went wrong and most responsible parties are quite ashamed by it.

what point were you trying to make? it kinda looks like your agreeing with me from what i stated in some of my first post but i dunno.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 23 January 2014 - 10:11 AM.

[Flying Judgement]

i just wounder why did they spend and conntinue spend money from MWO to other projects. And lying to us with a straight face.
its wery likely they been hireing for other little game projects

but u know what read some stuf others looked in to.
http://www.reddit.co...hy/who_are_pgi/

u know they spend a lage portion fo the founders money in to mech warrior tactic

they try to change now, and i hope they do MWO is a big fish. With a lot of cash in it!! They realy should invest more in this game if they would acheve just half the job MW: LL Team did. They will start to gain some trust again. and a LOT more money than the phoneix and founders project together.
But i dont think its gonna happen before.

[Flying Judgement]

my point is it shouldnt take this long if they invest all the money from this game in to this game. and they would make a lot more money to as less whale would have swim away

[Sandpit]

what was the point of this thread again? I got lost....

UI2.0 isn't the "savior" it's the patch that allows everythign else to be implemented

[BLOOD WOLF]

"I dont think people understand the work needed to make something like that happen. with old technology and dont get me wrong, the cry 3 engine is powerful in own right but the current interface of 1.0 has too many limitations"-Blood Wolf"

that's what i was getting at. the inability of whatever they built this game on currently to do what they wanted it to do. Mind you i'm not talking about the engine.

Sandpit, on 23 January 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

what was the point of this thread again? I got lost....

UI2.0 isn't the "savior" it's the patch that allows everythign else to be implemented

Jesus, you always hit the mark?

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 23 January 2014 - 10:46 AM.

[cSand]

SEE WHAT HAPPENS?

SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU LET TEENAGERS ON THE INTERNET???

MY GOD DOES NOBODY SEE WHAT HAPPENS??

I want to you guys to pay close attention to Carl's amazing closing insight in the last few seconds of this video:

Edited by cSand, 23 January 2014 - 10:58 AM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

truth is, we whine but were gonna play the game regardless. we love our mechwarrior

[Sidekick]

BLOOD WOLF, on 23 January 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:

Christ dude, you make no sense, and you didn't read what i said, i can tell. I dont sit and defend all day, as a matter of fact i Realize and acknowledge Next games points, even if i dont agree with some of them but for heavens sakes man, you just spit out nonsense. I know, i know, the past, the past its fun. Your angry because you bought a package for what you thought you knew what you wanted and now want to get you money back. I get it. You completely mistook me, to put it real plainly, you know, just go back and read it. Next game may have been in the same boat as you but jeez he makes you look like a second grader.


what point were you trying to make? it kinda looks like your agreeing with me from what i stated in some of my first post but i dunno.

Like I sayd: I shouldn´t post while on flu medication. I´ll put my text into a spoiler tag and try to solve it as soon™ as my head is clear again.

Shortlist:
- your defense for the PGI progress issues reads like a hidden offense because you suggest that a mundane task has tripwires so bad for the devs that it stuns them for a year.
- I am not angry mit PGI, because I see that their decisions are economically viable and right in the sense of stable cashflow
- I belive that the UI is not a big issue and that there are not as many problems with UI2.0 as the press releases/statements made some users belive. I firmly have the impression that there was no work invested into UI2.0 because it was not required/scheduled
- I was trying to explain some of the "real" wtf moments the devs had and what bizarre traps the devs stubled into. Got lost in a fever dream, as it seems.
- If people make fun of your standpoint it is clear to me why.

Edited by Sidekick, 23 January 2014 - 01:47 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Dude, what i was getting at was 2 things

1. the progress not made in game was because of the limitations of 1.0

2. you can play the blame game and yes they have made some faulty decision but they are trying, what they did is what they did and you or I cant change that so they are working at it now and take that for what its worth

3. the cost of this game, yes they made 5 million on kick starter but for what they want in this game it's gonna cost them more than what they are even gonna come close to getting. this is why a lot of game companies fail, they expend to much and gain to little.

you nitpicked my words, took small sentences that didn't stand on their own and tried to make arguments against them. it is PGI fault that the content isn't here, they way they decided to do things was a stupid move. They should have developed the UI before doing anything else but they didn't. what were they supposed to do, halt the game for a whole year?. you cant see past your own nose into anything someone does, you devalue the work of others. A person such as you shouldn't comment on anybody. you said it yourself, the UI is not a big issue, well if you believe that then you need you head checked. Its the reason why none of the key features are here. I dont know why they didn't make the UI beforehand, but if your gonna sit their and say that its easy work, you have a hole in your head. like i said in the first place, programming isn't easy, on any level.

[Sidekick]

BLOOD WOLF, on 24 January 2014 - 05:12 AM, said:

Dude, what i was getting at was 2 things

1. the progress not made in game was because of the limitations of 1.0

Well. And this is what I was trying to get at (until I faded out).

This cannot be true. If your point would be correct...
UI1.0 woult prevent progress on:
the collision model
hit registration
game modes (we CAN select different game modes)
Pilot tree development
balancing issues
matchmaking
modules
role warfare
information warfare
-> everything IN game


UI1.0 actually stands in the way of implementing
CW/faction war
lobbies
dropship mode
community interaction
-> everything outside of the game

You see? Some issues are interlocking with the UI, others are not.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Sidekick, on 24 January 2014 - 09:53 AM, said:

Well. And this is what I was trying to get at (until I faded out).

This cannot be true. If your point would be correct...
UI1.0 woult prevent progress on:
the collision model
hit registration
game modes (we CAN select different game modes)
Pilot tree development
balancing issues
matchmaking
modules
role warfare
information warfare
-> everything IN game


UI1.0 actually stands in the way of implementing
CW/faction war
lobbies
dropship mode
community interaction
-> everything outside of the game

You see? Some issues are interlocking with the UI, others are not.

never mind, gonna get my words twisted in many ways. to put it simply, UI 2.0 is what they needed to give us what we wanted, they didn't have it. Fine to be mad at a promise but that just it, if its not done its not done and theirs nothing you can do about it. From a devs standpoint, you cant move on until you solve the problem at hand.

This cannot be true. If your point would be correct...
UI1.0 woult prevent progress on:
the collision model
hit registration
game modes (we CAN select different game modes)
Pilot tree development
balancing issues
matchmaking
modules
role warfare
information warfare
-> everything IN game}--------wtf you know dang well what UI 1.0 cant achieve and i didn't mention any of that other stuff , putting words in someones mouth is the worst thing you can when trying to make a point. at the same time any one of those could be constant issues that prevent other things from getting done, mind you i never mention the level of skill these guys. I made my point very clear, and you twisted that, you ignored it. even after i acknowledged some of your points. which the whole i dont agree with. most are mad i get that but that doesn't mean you have to be unreasonable(take the word unreasonable for what it is and dont make assumptions)

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 24 January 2014 - 03:57 PM.

[Sug]

Sandpit, on 23 January 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

what was the point of this thread again? I got lost....

We're talking about Mechwarrior Tactics.

[Abivard]

we are talking about whether PGI can walk and chew gum at the same time, or if it is simply to difficult for them to do both so we should not be surprised that we are a still waiting to see if they can blow a bubble.

[Sidekick]

okay when you say this:

BLOOD WOLF, on 24 January 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

never mind, gonna get my words twisted in many ways. to put it simply, UI 2.0 is what they needed to give us what we wanted, they didn't have it. Fine to be mad at a promise but that just it, if its not done its not done and theirs nothing you can do about it. From a devs standpoint, you cant move on until you solve the problem at hand.

/stuff/

I made my point very clear,

Oh yes, you did your 2 or three points were:

BLOOD WOLF, on 24 January 2014 - 05:12 AM, said:

Dude, what i was getting at was 2 things

1. the progress not made in game was because of the limitations of 1.0

2. you can play the blame game and yes they have made some faulty decision but they are trying, what they did is what they did and you or I cant change that so they are working at it now and take that for what its worth

3. the cost of this game, yes they made 5 million on kick starter but for what they want in this game it's gonna cost them more than what they are even gonna come close to getting. this is why a lot of game companies fail, they expend to much and gain to little.

You stated that UI 1.0 prevented stuff from happening, and later you stated that UI cannot prevent stuff from happening

You stated that they need to give us UI2.0 to give us the features the most players desire, while it is really debateable what features "us" the players demand. I listed a few of the really requested features.

The less this medication is stunning my brain the more it hurts to read your points. It´s like you are virtually debating with yourself. I had a moment of paranoia yesterday when I belived that I was so drugged out with antibiotics that I wrote your stuff.

Jeez.

[BLOOD WOLF]

"You stated that UI 1.0 prevented stuff from happening, and later you stated that UI cannot prevent stuff from happening

You stated that they need to give us UI2.0 to give us the features the most players desire, while it is really debateable what features "us" the players demand. I listed a few of the really requested features."-sidekick"

are u serious? you just lied their buddy. you quoted me and still made up ********.

"You stated that UI 1.0 prevented stuff from happening, and later you stated that UI cannot prevent stuff from happening"-sidekick

I never stated that, why you gotta lie man, you disillusional. you gotta make up stuff? who quotes somebody and they makes something up? i stated that the UI 1.0 had limitations that just wouldn't allow them to do the stuff they wanted and maybe they did promise but they just didn't have what they needed for some of the functions that people want. maaaaan why you gotta lie?? Its in plain text man, plain text, take the words for what they are.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 24 January 2014 - 04:06 PM.

[Dudeman3k]

BLOOD WOLF, on 23 January 2014 - 02:25 AM, said:

I think its time to start a little discussion. Most of you guys are mad that things like CW isn't here. and it took so long for UI 2.0 to get here and you know what i'm not surprised. I dont think people understand the work needed to make something like that happen. with old technology and dont get me wrong, the cry 3 engine is powerful in own right but the current interface of 1.0 has too many limitations. Many who play the game aren't programmers, nor do they really understand the challenges when changing or moding a current config to make it do new things. I myself know a little in things such as coding and rigging although my brother made games in calculators and could mod things in street fighter and oblivion, he always had a nack for techy stuff. My father was a high level programmer and a good one, so i would always watch him do his work, i was too little to know what he was doing but i knew it would take months/weeks or days depending. my point is, PGI, they are trying, what they are doing isn't easy, how many of you right this minute can picture what their tasks are. For those of you who do know whats its like then you should now its a big task. I know modders who in 6 years still haven't fully completed their games and are still working on it despite the fact that people on their forums have said the same things some of you are saying about PGI. I know the game isnt perfect, but its what we got, who else decided to reboot the franchise? i like LL but its just cant be anything more than what it is. MWO has the chance to be what we have been wanted for all these years. ask russ, ask paul, ask bryan ask the team, let them tell you how hard their jobs are. let them tell you how easy it is. as from monetary stand point, i have put about 100 in the game, no i didn't have a chance to get founders. Yes they made millions off of the kick starter and yes they charge a good deal for clan mechs but this is to keep the machine going. "and it's still not enough on its own to fund everything the studio wants to do" I heard the gripes about the income but how many of you know the output? do you know the cost of keeping this running>? and when all is said and done this game will attract people, the cost will go up. that 5 million is gonna run dry, " The $100 million-plus figure in the article referred to the development and upkeep of World of Warcraft, its massively-multiplayer online game." look at that, and this game isn't even as big. http://kotaku.com/55...illion-to-make. It saddens me deeply to see people act as if nothing can be fixed, as if one cant make it better. Fix one problem and another arises so the grateful become the ungrateful. ugh, good thing my classes start the 27th, English class here i come

lololol hahahaha.... oh man..... how about this... A MW title 10 years ago is STILL BETTER than this piece of "work"... if you can call it that... As a BT fan and MW player, I can honestly tell you, this "project" took 10 steps backwards and is repeating ALL of the mistakes the past MW titles had, vs, correcting them (as you would hope they learned from the past)...

it's mind boggling! Like attacking Russia just before winter.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Dudeman3k, on 24 January 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

lololol hahahaha.... oh man..... how about this... A MW title 10 years ago is STILL BETTER than this piece of "work"... if you can call it that... As a BT fan and MW player, I can honestly tell you, this "project" took 10 steps backwards and is repeating ALL of the mistakes the past MW titles had, vs, correcting them (as you would hope they learned from the past)...

it's mind boggling! Like attacking Russia just before winter.

10 steps back? i could agree with you but you failed to explain why?