164 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Trauglodyte, on 27 January 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

Great! You're running a SplatHawk, a SplatGriffin, or a Splataro. It isn't rocket science, ya know.

I miss the days of the SplatCat.

[Trauglodyte]

Deathlike, on 27 January 2014 - 02:24 PM, said:

I miss the days of the SplatCat.

I don't. I remember one day in Caustic Valley, I was cruising around in one of the 8 series Awesomes. I was the slowest of the group running suicide alley (3 line - why does anyone go that way?) and I used free look to check my rear vector. In swoop two SplatCats like a couple of ME-109s/FW-190s chasing down a damaged Allied bomber. They put one salvoe each on me and I dropped like a rock. The only joy I took out of that was that I soon tailored my missile Awesome to do the same and would sometimes be able to put a full salvoe on some Light mech nipping at my heels. Ah, watching Mandos die in a hail of missiles was glorious.

Of course, these days, we've got Steak pulsing Mediums that think that they're "good" cause they can ripple fire to keep your cockpit shaking non-stop. Its like an AC2 boater that thinks they're "good".

Edited by Trauglodyte, 27 January 2014 - 02:36 PM.

[Necromantion]

Skyfaller, on 24 January 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

I ask this because most heavy mechs can be equipped with as much or better weaponry than a medium and still go just as fast (80-90kph'ish) while having much better armor and the flexibility of much better/heavier armaments.

Perhaps it is time to make heavy and assault mechs slower per engine size? (I mean seriously, an assault running at nearly 80kph?)


I would put:

lights at ~150kph max.
Mediums at ~100 kph max.
Heavies at ~60kph max.
Assaults @ ~40 kph max.

Understandably, increase the armor values per ton of each mech type appropriately to compensate.

I honestly feel that for a heavy or assault to achieve 80-90kph they sacrifice a significant amount of firepower and still have sub-par mobility when it comes to turning, acceleration, etc compared to a medium. And most of those configurations have only a marginal damage bonus over a medium. The only advantage really is the extra armor, which doesnt honestly do much if youre not able to unleash enough damage to make someone think twice about facing you toe to toe.

When i see assaults with really light dmg builds to fit large engines i usually giggle to myself cause if they show a moderate dmg loadout that means XL

[MischiefSC]

Tonnage should favor the defender.

You can only carry so much weight in your dropships, you want more weight you need to buy more dropships. The defender can carry, support and afford whatever he can stick on the planet.

One thing to, in its way, replace repair and rearm - fielding and maintenance costs for actual orgs. The higher the tonnage and higher the cost of the mechs they field the higher the cost to them in maintenance expenses.

This keeps R&R largely irrelevant to pugs and lone wolves and on 'regular' matches but a significant factor for orgs.

[Asmudius Heng]

R and R should not be based on cbills though. There is a limitless supply of cbills and it rewards people who play a lot more than those who do not.

Logistics needs to be simulated somehow but it should not be from the grinding bucket or the system will break as we saw with the original R&R

[LowSubmarino]

Right now mediums have no advantage over heavies or assaults apart from mobility. Not in terms of firepower, durability or even financially as heavies or assaults can be bought rather quickly even for totally new players.

Especially in Skirmish mode where the team is the objective speed isnt a big factor anymore at least not big enough to outweigh sheer firepower and armor combined in a 12 man assault team.

I have seen 2 premade er lls lances once on tourmaline. They killed mechs so fast it wasn't even funny anymore. All in assaults, stalkers, some awesome and highlanders with a few ppcs. Rest lasers. And me and some other puggers.

There are some teams out there that just want to win games which is perfectly understandable. They take the biggest meanest mechs with loads of bfgs.

With victory in skirmish as a main objective there is no value in taking less armed and armored mechs.

I like playing the shadowhawk (only good medium in my opinion). But if anybody would tell me "man we have a skirmish match and we need to rock" then forget the shadowhawk hehe. Thats just the truth of it.

Then we bring the artillery...

You would probably see a lot more mediums if 1. heavies weren't about as fast as mediums, 2. if they reintroduce maintenacance costs which should be rediculously high for the scariest assaults and or heavies out there, 3. speed is reintroduced as one of the most important strengths in future game modes (e.g. protect a certain 'marked' mech or some other soft target that has to be hunted or covered or that in itself needs to be speedy.

Apart from that mediums are fun to run around with and you can do good in pug games for sure. I frequently get 600 - 800 with them and see others do the same. But if you encounter a good premade team that doesnt split, doesnt do weird brainless doom trains into the desert of oblivion even though the 'tail' gets slaughtered right behind them clearly visible on radar, a team that does indeed know where you are, that knows the terrain well and cannot be flanked just like puggers are all the time....

Then good night mediums haha. Thats what i have seen and what I know. Anybody disputing that is wrong.

[Murzao]

lmao @ Traug

What's your definition of 'skill'....a SSRM or LRM boater? An Ac2 boater is the very definition of skill....placing multiple shots in rapidfire where you want meanwhile not facetanking enough to get plowed in return.
Having the luxury of 10 minutes to aim while your target is fighting someone else sure as hell isn't 'skill' like most people think it is in PPCwarrioronline.

The only people that died to splattcats were baddies that stood still or were so slow to be that. I had fun killing splattcats with my ASRM6s from 250ms or other stuff from longer range. And uh that's only 1/3rd of my builds so. I always have a long range weapon of some sort for medium shoot n scoot.

Edited by Murzao, 27 January 2014 - 04:05 PM.

[Krujiente]

Artgathan, on 25 January 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

To all the people suggesting that Mediums can outmaneuver Assault mechs: you are wrong. Read the link in the second post for the math, but essentially no medium can run fast enough to be the turning speed of any assault mech.

If you're running circles around an atlas in an medium you're doing it wrong. Outmaneuver doesn't just mean I can circle faster then you can turn, any assault that's worth his salt can hold still, walk his back to some cover and halt that nonsense. You can however hammer a few times with your guns at the correct range to ensure your survival and damage output, and then take off through cover before he can level the playing field, either finding a different target or guessing where he'll chug (usually straight where you went) and get into a position where you get the first alpha. Even in a stand up fight I can beat twice my weight with proper use of torso twisting and a healthy dose of boomstick, an enormous amount of lasers, or SRMs (not streaks) Not always enough damage to kill, but enough to blow off a critical side torso.

[Sug]

Deathlike, on 27 January 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

It's not that bad. I would almost universally say that the SH is the best starting medium mech (although, the 5M carrying the XL version is pricey)... but, I'm too biased for the SH to give a proper recommendation.

Might have just been the engine. I was only running a 300xl since that was the biggest one I had laying around. 97.6 kph some how felt slower than my 77kph phract.

I swear my hunchback going 98kph feels like a light mech compared to the shawk.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Necromantion, on 27 January 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

I honestly feel that for a heavy or assault to achieve 80-90kph they sacrifice a significant amount of firepower and still have sub-par mobility when it comes to turning, acceleration, etc compared to a medium. And most of those configurations have only a marginal damage bonus over a medium. The only advantage really is the extra armor, which doesnt honestly do much if youre not able to unleash enough damage to make someone think twice about facing you toe to toe.

When i see assaults with really light dmg builds to fit large engines i usually giggle to myself cause if they show a moderate dmg loadout that means XL

There are some Victor's that run really fast, pack a nasty punch and can jump.

[Deathlike]

Sug, on 27 January 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

Might have just been the engine. I was only running a 300xl since that was the biggest one I had laying around. 97.6 kph some how felt slower than my 77kph phract.

I swear my hunchback going 98kph feels like a light mech compared to the shawk.

Well, I think I ran 3 different ones (2 at most)... the speediest one going to the Streakhawk (2D2)

[YueFei]

meteorol, on 27 January 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

While this is true, it only helps if you engage enemies at really long ranges. Once you are in a range that makes it impossible to "outtwist" a flying ppcs, torsotwisting will help jack diddly squat against good pilots.
If you can shoot them, they can shoot you. If they can't shoot you, they will move into a position in which you can't shoot them.
A good pilot will make sure he can hit a shot if he exposes himself in a 1on1 situation. If you allow someone to chew your armor down at 800m distance while shooting ppc after ppc into his arms, you are not a good pilot in first place. There is more than enough cover on almost every map. If you realize you are in disadvantage on huge ranges, don't pick up the fight.

Don't get me wrong, as i said torso torso twisting is a viable tactic. But it is not the "holy grail" some guys claim it to be.

There is plenty of cover on most maps, but there are very few places where there are *no* sight lines to you from 700+ meters away, meaning there are some places on the map that an enemy can pop up from and shoot you.

And the slower mech does not get to choose whether he fights or not. The faster opponent does. The slower mech cannot run away. He can reposition better, but he cannot run away and he cannot easily catch someone who runs faster than he does, at least not until you run into the out-of-bounds issue.

It is just that Assault and Heavy mech pilots who are dead-eye marksmen are usually good enough to blast apart the lighter mechs. I can dance in front of bad pilots with near impunity in my Jenner, but die in about 5 seconds against some of the better pilots. But I realize this is a function of range. At 300 meters to use my Medium Lasers, PPC and AC fire reaches me in a little over 200 milliseconds. It happens too fast to dodge.

Like I said, at 700 meters, you are far enough away that you can start twisting when the PPC leaves the barrel, and have enough time to block it with an arm or side torso. What is more is that since PPCs are much more common than ERPPCs, at 700+ meters he is also taking less damage even if he gets hit. A 2xPPC hit at 700 meters does 14 damage instead of 20. His 2xAC2s will deal full damage. Although, it will spread alot if the enemy twists and turns while waiting for PPCs and ACs to reload.

I also made a mistake with the math on Centurion damage-soaking ability. The arm stump can mitigate damage to the CT to 25%. So actually the Centurion CT can potentially absorb 320+ damage just from that. Add the 130 damage the side torso can take and the 48 hitpoints on the arm, and that is 500+ damage he can take before he goes down, if he is perfect with his blocking.

[YueFei]

Murzao, on 27 January 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

And YueFei, RiverCity is my favorite map lots of building cover to shoot n scoot. I especially love the tall lower city buildings by the node they make for many a 1v1 which I can kill people in peace before they get backup:) I love small maps.

Well, tall cover certainly helps cover you from LRMs and jump snipers, so I can see why you'd love those buildings. But how do you deal with an enemy's hard push? If they arm-tank your fire while pushing you towards the out-of-bounds?

Or maybe the question should be: how would your team deal with that? If the enemies spread out to cover more area and try to trap you, I guess your team can use your speed advantage to group up and hit one isolated group of enemies hard and take them out? And if they death ball, your team can skirt around them before they pin you to the edge of the map and continue hammering them from long range?

[Joseph Mallan]

Simple. The Point f Mediums is it is a fairly affordable machine that can fill gaps in forces.

[dario03]

I think he meant what is the point of them in this game Though I guess some mediums might be cheaper to get into for a newbie, but that depends on what your comparing to and only matters early on and the trial mechs aren't even that bad now.

[Joseph Mallan]

dario03, on 28 January 2014 - 07:09 AM, said:

I think he meant what is the point of them in this game Though I guess some mediums might be cheaper to get into for a newbie, but that depends on what your comparing to and only matters early on and the trial mechs aren't even that bad now.

The answer still remains. It is a fairly inexpensive Mech capable of filling various roles. It will not be a Better toe to toe brawler than its bigger brethren nor will it match its lighter ones. It is the middle of the road average Vehicle. What made it dominate was that it was easier to keep (affordable) two mediums than to keep one Assault. THAT was the bonus of Mediums.

[dario03]

Yeah, but that bonus doesn't really carry over to this game. Sure you can get one cheaper than other mechs so you can get it sooner but since R&R is (thankfully) gone that doesn't really matter after playing for a bit.

[Joseph Mallan]

dario03, on 28 January 2014 - 07:32 AM, said:

Yeah, but that bonus doesn't really carry over to this game. Sure you can get one cheaper than other mechs so you can get it sooner but since R&R is (thankfully) gone that doesn't really matter after playing for a bit.

R&R got me to buy a Centurion cause I didn't have so high a repair bill. Gt pretty good in it too. With out R&R there is no negative to owning An Atlas, Battlemaster and a Jenner.

[UPnADAM]

I'll take my bj1x over any assault in the game.

[Charons Little Helper]

Sug, on 27 January 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

Might have just been the engine. I was only running a 300xl since that was the biggest one I had laying around. 97.6 kph some how felt slower than my 77kph phract.

I swear my hunchback going 98kph feels like a light mech compared to the shawk.

That's because it has such better torso twist.