44 replies to this topic

[RickySpanish]

I'm interested to see people's opinions of taking company command in a match. I've found increasingly that my team mates will wonder into obvious kill zones unless warned,and that a friendly message in chat is not effective enough. For example, Tourmaline Death Valley in D7 for teams starting on the south eastern side, or Alpine Peaks H8/H9 mountain for teams approaching from the south.

What's your take on company command? Necessary lemming meet cliff edge repellent, or useless after thought that's only slightly more purposeful than the Command Console?

[Threat Doc]

Honestly?

Well, because there are too many individuals in the game, almost none of them being military minded, or even desirous of any manner of organization toward the win, right now taking command is an after-thought, pretty damn useless if you ask me. I am loathe to take Lance Command, because unless you're in a pre-made, no one wants to act like they're part of the team, period.

By the way, this is NOT the fault of PGI; they have provided the tools, such as they are, but they are not being used because there are too many glory hounds, hot dogs, and screw-offs in the game to make it even seem like it's in a universe of military stompy robot warfare. It's a farce, and it's made that way by the community.

Hehe, should I tell you how I really feel?

[Toadkillerdog]

I exclusively drop with my unit now, and I have seen very few games where someone actually commanding helps. In fact, it's usually a single guy that thinks he knows what's going on, and tries to tell everyone to stand in a killzone. Oh, and they always rearrange the lances, even when we protest, to the point that one of my teammates always takes command just to stop this. He doesn't actually do anything, but not being a detriment is more useful than any commander I've seen yet. That does sound about right for officers....

[6xero9]

Me to team: "Since you took command, what's the plan?"
Commander: "uhhh.... stick together"
Me to Lance: "follow me, we're going to flank right"
Me to Team: "taking my lance to flank"
Commander: "No! that won't work!" *followed by inane babbling*

after that we end up behind the whole of the enemy forces as they engage the 8 friendly mechs, due to getting flanked the lights run for the hills, the assaults get taken down, the heavies and mediums attempt a retreat while getting picked off, followed by several minutes of hunting down lights whereas I powered down due to chasing down lights in an atlas to be a nuisance...

[kesuga7]

moving people around lances that are in premades makes it annoying to try and take commando

[6xero9]

On a related note, how effective is a cohesive unit? as I usually run into the ones that just want to charge the entire team into the enemy, or no communication.

[Chrithu]

I don't take command. The commander tools available and the text chat aren't exactly effective tools and I find myself being a better help to the team if I spend my time leading by example and killing enemy mechs rather than spending it in the map and textchat.

I am saying this since beta: This game needs a non third party integrated voice chat. It works great in CS:GO, worked great in BF 2 back in the day and works awesomely in ARMA 2/3.

Also the commander tools need a big upgrade. Simple radio commands issued per keyboard like in CS: Things like: Follow me, Hold Position and similar simple things. Issuing command on the Map must become faster. Maybe by giving the minimap more room in the cockpit and letting us issue commands directly there without losing the sight of what's going on directly around our mech.

Before that taking command is just worthless.

[NextGame]

I actually think that there should be a separate commander mode similar to spectator where they issue instructions via the map interface like at present, but can place deployables like say, turrets, & that van that has been replacing the oil rigs on some maps lately, and have control over what are currently consumable modules in the form of x number of uav's, air strikes and art strikes.

Obviously there would need to be a little more than that, but a worthwhile overreaching commnder role is missing from the game.

[Wintersdark]

Disclaimer: I'm ignoring the game tools entirely - when I talk about taking command, I mean just that. Not clicking a button, but stepping up and talking, having a plan and guiding people to it.

I pug almost exclusively. I never take command, because... Well, I'm not a leader. I detest leading. However, it's been my experience over more than 3000 solo pug drops that when someone steps up and takes a leadership position(*), we either win, or the game is very close, without fail.

That asterix above, however, is important.

Taking a leadership position is not easy for everyone. If you just shout at people, or deride them, you won't get good results. You need to guide people to a common goal, and do it in such a way as to encourage people to follow your directions. As such, they need to be brief, clear, simple and polite. Complex tactics are not a good idea in a random PUG, there's too much uncertainty. However, announcing focus-fire targets, or a map grid to attack/defend (and update it! Don't just spout off a line of text at the start of the battle and then shut up) is a sure way to lead to victory even if you don't fire a shot.

Of course, you do need to have non-terrible ideas, but in all honesty it's been my experience that a team with a plan - even a bad plan - will crush a team of people all doing different random stuff almost every single time.

[Thanatos676]

In a 4 man with my unit? I command my lance made up of unit members and that is it, let the PUGs do what they wish as i have no desire to herd cats. In 12 mans? I let my Major run things as he has a good mind for such stuff.

NOTE: i don't play solo. Ever. I will always have another unit member with me, even if its just 1 person.

[DonGardenio]

After one too many games of telling people to bumrush Theta on Terra Therma and have people clog up the bridges and die one by one, I have lost faith in both my ability to command and humanity in general.

Honestly though, not like anybody listens a whole lot. And trying to collectively listen to an absolute nobody, who then disconnects immediately after he dies is just ehhh. Not gonna stick around and see the results of your actions? This tends to be the general face of people who try to take command that I've seen around.

Or people who give an order, end up being the only one following it and doesn't read the atmosphere/take a hint and just dies by himself and swears at the whole team.

==

In general, I find its just better to communicate locations of enemies, where you need help etc. Try to get a breather to type out a quick line. And let the team coordinate itself. Hopefully there's a 4-man drop on your team who can use that information well.

I mostly pug, but I try to strike up some communication. With some idle banter pre match, just to go all hey I SAY STUFF. Then mention that I have LRMs if I do. Then just slap out coordinates when I spot people, warn people of ECM presence and stuff.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

I take command.

I don't agree with the comments here in entirety.

I dislike when people take command because they're afraid others will rearrange the team. It's not that they take command it's just that they take it and then don't do anything with it. How often does this happen and if people are strong pilots it's not going to affect the game.

I have many games where people will play together and the majority of the team works together. The times when that is least likely to happen is when there is a drop of a lance and for whatever reason they just want to do their own things (Steiners are the worst in this regards (and as players you can depend on)).


Frustration sets in when trial mech pilots just don't know the game and don't know how to keep from rushing in and dying way too early ("Stick with a buddy and don't take the first hit") is the fastest and quickest advice that can be given.

As mentioned the ingame command tool sucks (the blue chat colour is GOD AWFUL AND I HAVE TO IMAGINE IT IS SUCH A MINOR THING TO FIX!!! (sorry, this issue has been since the closed beta and they made it worse. Change the blue chat colour please PGI!!!)). THe star helps for getting people to at least focus fire (I use "AAAAAA" or "BBBBBB" to signal mechs to be taken down. Others use those binded keys.

So yeah, I do it. I respect others when they do it (win or lose) though I do dislike when people are really vague or just general in their commands (overall). "Dont die" is not taking leadership. "Stick together" is not taking leadership.

It's when someone gives a rallying point to group up at... When they tell people to set up a defense outside of Theta on that hot map. Or when people set up a small group to guard the 3 line on caustic while others sit on the right side of the map (on this side of the ridge) and remind people to not go over hills (as opposed to around hills) because going over gives a clear sight across the skyline and allows multiple mechs to hit one target.

I encourage people to take command and really do so. If you set a marker, though, remember to take it off the map after people have rallied because the size of those things are atrocious and really muck up the mini map.

When I command my piloting is average. But I'd rather push to win than individual glory. I also do this be in a group or pug and I do pug quite a bit as it's just faster and I realize I build myself up as a better pilot than someone who needs to have someone with them.

Edited by Daisu Saikoro, 25 January 2014 - 07:24 AM.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

One last thing I notice is if I am commanding and really using the chat function to my ability it will sometimes

Toadkillerdog, on 24 January 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

I exclusively drop with my unit now, and I have seen very few games where someone actually commanding helps. In fact, it's usually a single guy that thinks he knows what's going on, and tries to tell everyone to stand in a killzone. Oh, and they always rearrange the lances, even when we protest, to the point that one of my teammates always takes command just to stop this. He doesn't actually do anything, but not being a detriment is more useful than any commander I've seen yet. That does sound about right for officers....

Toadkillerdog, on 24 January 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

I exclusively drop with my unit now, and I have seen very few games where someone actually commanding helps. In fact, it's usually a single guy that thinks he knows what's going on, and tries to tell everyone to stand in a killzone. Oh, and they always rearrange the lances, even when we protest, to the point that one of my teammates always takes command just to stop this. He doesn't actually do anything, but not being a detriment is more useful than any commander I've seen yet. That does sound about right for officers....

I more than less disagree with the above statement (and the one about taking a lance to flank).

Edited by Daisu Saikoro, 25 January 2014 - 07:37 AM.

[Carrioncrows]

No.

2 Reasons.

1. The commmand menus is FAR too cumbersome and lacking of key critical data. Can't assign priority on targets, can't designate 2ndary targets or even assign a lance to hunt for different targets.

2. No garentee that people will listen even if I took command.

Easy to just drop a suggestion in chat, "hold big mountain" ect ect. and then those that want to follow it, good on them. Those that don't no big deal.

[Wintersdark]

Carrioncrows, on 25 January 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

2. No garentee that people will listen even if I took command.

Easy to just drop a suggestion in chat, "hold big mountain" ect ect. and then those that want to follow it, good on them. Those that don't no big deal.

This is an important point to bring up and expand on. I'm not directing this at you personally, 'Crows, just using "You" as a reference to players in general.

In a PUG, if you're taking command (again, I mean the actual act of taking command of the group, not clicking the "Take Command" button - that's irrelevant) you need to understand that some people may not listen to you, and if they don't, you need to adapt (or not, as the situation demands) - they won't.

You can't yell at them, or get all pissy - it's pointless, and just makes it less likely everyone else will listen to you going forward.



Also, premades are a consideration. Generally, you can tell who's in a premade, and in that case you're better off asking them if they've got a plan, and working around that - they're almost certainly not going to be interested in taking direction from other random folks.

You never need to rearrange lances. Ever. Just don't. You risk alienating premades, and the strategic options available to you as a PUG commander are just too limited to really lean on lance-level command.

Remember, the goal is to do your best to win the battle, not to establish that you're the most awesome strategist the world has ever known. We're not looking for tactical brilliance, just a mild amount of corralling to get everyone moving in more or less the same direction. You want more elaborate tactics, get into premades and 12 mans.

In a perfect world, someone in a 4-man is best off taking command, because he can be sure his lance at least will act reliably. This allows more flexibility in tactics, as you can direct the other 8 and perform more advanced maneuvers yourselves (particularly if you're on voice comms).

[Nicholas Carlyle]

It depends on the day. But normally in matches I'll start off with some friendly advise "Stay together, don't run off and die by yourself, focus fire".

Then it depends how i'm feeling.

Like one game on Caustic, it was conquest, and instead of the team splitting up I had them blob around the outside, going from cap to cap and avoiding Theta entirely.

The team actually listened and we stayed together. We'd inevitably run into their team, but it was always in groups of 4 or less, so we'd stomp them since we had all 12 mechs together.

On top of that we ended up with more caps.

Someone at the end said i was the best leader they'd ever encountered in PUG's, and I just said "You can only lead people who are willing to listen".

It doesn't always end that well, but it's amazing what a team can do when they stick together.

[Soulscour]

Sometimes I take command in larger maps like Alpine, Tourmaline, and terra therma, usually in order to get lances going in the right direction at the beginning of a match. Often times if you do not, a lance will go off by themselves and be destroyed or out of action, leaving the rest of the team at a big disadvantage. If you set way points, sometimes people listen and sometimes they don't. It doesn't hurt to try. I think taking company command, and not setting waypoints or communicating is dumb.

[Mad Porthos]

Typical response to taking command in PUGs, "UR NOT MY FATHER, I DONT GOTTTA DO WAT U SAY!!!!".

In all seriousness though, about the only effective things you can do in pugz can be done with out the tools given, possibly more effectively. Starting out on a skirmish or assault on alpine for example, I often recommend getting up on i10, h10, so we can have the high ground. Done right, a straight up the middle charge from no mans land is easily encircled, a left cliffside flank can be fired down upon and artillery struck, and those who slip around to the rear to come up the same path of h10, i10 find it very hard once some one is defending that high ground. The weakest point, the right flank which still has a cliff, does have the vulnerability of being open to fire from that ridge over looking that high base, but people usually still have sufficient cover on this high ground if they dealt appropriately with other "pushes".

If you take command and place a move or defend waypoint on h10, i10, e en without doing anything disruptive to groups, the very action of assuming command seems to tick off one other lance who assumes you intend to break them up, so usually claim such command preemptively. Typically after the rude words or assurances of no splitsies, and wasted time, this other team then either sits out or larks off elsewhere to snipe, or scavenge kills, or even cap (assault). Most frustrating when they call you noobz, but are lumbing to cap in the teams only assaults around the edge of the board, finally turning to try a cleanup after the eight others who chose to group and defend manage to kill 6 out of 12 enemy and they figure since they are elitez pwners in assaults, they can mop up the other 6 damaged enemy.

Such a game ends with the 6 enemy capping us out as the 4 assaults gave up trying to cap, lumbered back around to base and are only just getting to extreme weapo s range as the last bit of ticks go away on the cap. As you can see, pointless. Just suggest you idea in pugs and hope the majority see the wisdom, and the rest follow like sheep. All command does is trigger, "You're not the boss of me!" In fact, its a great irony that some commanders want to organise "scout" or "light" lances at all since they are often self organizing, self selecting by their characteristic of mobility. Decent lights who all move at a similar click tend to recognize strength in numbers, resulting in defacto light lances, regardless of official designation, such as bravo, charlie and the premade grouping that the matchmaker usually honors. Again, all moving people from lances does in these cases is hack people off. I wish it weren't so, but it is.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

i dont take command and usually think who the F are you?if you do.if you take command dont move players from lances without asking 1st,this will keep you from being teamkilled by premades hunting together till you split the lances. (its against the rules ,but can happen)and i think only {Surat} rearrange lances when drop points are so far away from each other now.

[St4LkeRxF]

Command orders have more chance to backfire than to do any good, it is far better to use chat and give some simple instructions/suggestions as people seem to react better to that.

No guarantees that will work every time, but when it does you will have great match and fun.