511 replies to this topic

[Xtrekker]

Budor, on 26 January 2014 - 03:24 AM, said:

The player base is to small there is NO other valid argument supporting mixed queues.

Except, say, oh, Elo? What do you think Elo is doing?

Separate the queues, widen Elo. What's the difference? I'd love to see these premade champions post their stats then explain how that justifies their pugstomp position.

[Budor]

Xtrekker, on 26 January 2014 - 04:05 AM, said:

Except, say, oh, Elo? What do you think Elo is doing?

Separate the queues, widen Elo. What's the difference? I'd love to see these premade champions post their stats then explain how that justifies their pugstomp position.

How is Elo a valid point in keeping premades in the pug queue? I think you misunderstood my post...

Edited by Budor, 26 January 2014 - 04:10 AM.

[Turist0AT]

There is not enough players for them to split us up thats why.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Turist0AT, on 26 January 2014 - 04:14 AM, said:

There is not enough players for them to split us up thats why.

No one actually know that past PGI. When and if I see real numbers not speculation I will accept that. It is my belief you are correct but that doesn't make it fact. PGI needs to come across with the information and their ideas of a solution to this issue that's been burning from the start.

[Ryoken]

I would pick the premade queue anyday.

But feel free to demand beeing able to click an option to get into a non-premade queue.

I bet it will be this non-premade queue that will dwindle as soon as people realize playing with not-teamplayers and socially challanged only is no fun at all.

[Turist0AT]

Mudhutwarrior, on 26 January 2014 - 04:56 AM, said:

No one actually know that past PGI. When and if I see real numbers not speculation I will accept that. It is my belief you are correct but that doesn't make it fact. PGI needs to come across with the information and their ideas of a solution to this issue that's been burning from the start.

PGI dont tell us anything. The questions you ask can only be speculated in. No one can answer your questions with facts.

Edit, oh sorry i was refering to OP questions. But yeah, we dont know anything.

Edited by Turist0AT, 26 January 2014 - 05:24 AM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Ryoken, on 26 January 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

I would pick the premade queue anyday.

But feel free to demand beeing able to click an option to get into a non-premade queue.

I bet it will be this non-premade queue that will dwindle as soon as people realize playing with not-teamplayers and socially challanged only is no fun at all.

No one is demanding. Either it makes good business sense or it doesn't. Only PGI would know that and debating it is just a trivial pursuit without hard numbers. My only gripe is give pugs and premades the same tools in game. And I am asking for it not demanding.

Why is it one side of the argument has to inflate and stratify the argument by use of language? Because their argument is weak.

"evil premades"
"Demanding"
"whiners"

Etc.

[Ryoken]

Mudhutwarrior, on 26 January 2014 - 05:46 AM, said:

My only gripe is give pugs and premades the same tools in game. And I am asking for it not demanding.

In what way do they have different options? There are tons of free TS3 servers out there. Just pick one!

[Mycrus]

just give them the pug only queue already... to kill this BS thread(ssssssssssssssssss) since closed beta...

[Ryoken]

Mycrus, on 26 January 2014 - 06:03 AM, said:

just give them the pug only queue already... to kill this BS thread(ssssssssssssssssss) since closed beta...

Just made the suggestion - but still some people cry...
http://mwomercs.com/...unt-users-only/

[Mycrus]

It's like assault and skirmish.... cap or no cap...

[Mudhutwarrior]

Ryoken, on 26 January 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

In what way do they have different options? There are tons of free TS3 servers out there. Just pick one!

You leave out it casuals noobs and those who just want to drop and fight. In game voice has been around since 1999 yet we dont have it and its created this friction that been hear since the start. Try solving a problem rather than beating everyone into the same box. People posting about split ques and in game voip are not trying to kill the game or wipe out the player base. they are trying to increase it and make the gameplay better for (wait for it) Everyone.

[990Dreams]

As a person who plays both, I think separating PUGs and Premades is a good idea, but only to a point. When your 'skill level' has reached a certain point then perhaps it is time you face a few premades.

[Mudhutwarrior]

DavidHurricane, on 26 January 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

As a person who plays both, I think separating PUGs and Premades is a good idea, but only to a point. When your 'skill level' has reached a certain point then perhaps it is time you face a few premades.

Agreed. You would need a large base to make it work. That's why PGI should address this at some point. We just don't know and the subject is creating more anger and division here. I lay it at their feet.

[Ryoken]

Mudhutwarrior, on 26 January 2014 - 06:23 AM, said:

Ryoken, on 26 January 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

In what way do they have different options? There are tons of free TS3 servers out there. Just pick one!

You leave out it casuals noobs and those who just want to drop and fight. In game voice has been around since 1999 yet we dont have it and its created this friction that been hear since the start. Try solving a problem rather than beating everyone into the same box. People posting about split ques and in game voip are not trying to kill the game or wipe out the player base. they are trying to increase it and make the gameplay better for (wait for it) Everyone.

Let me repeat, there are free TS3 servers! They are open to Everyone!

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I'm currently sitting through the 4th failed attempt to find a 12 man game with it set to "Any".

I don't need PGI to tell me this game's population is tiny.

Edit: And we just disbanded to do 4 man's so we can play.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Iskareot, on 25 January 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

So what would happen if pugs actually could fight their equal other solo players and premades had to fight their own equal premades?

What would be so bad about that balance of play?

Obvious pros are equal or at least MORE balance then we have now based on logic....

But would the matches go longer? Would the pugs be mad that we were more or less organized?

Would the premades be mad they could not farm the pugs? OR that they would have balance forced on them?

Why is this still not in the game? NOBODY should lose any options.. make that clear.. both sides should be able to keep their fun. But shouldn't new people and current players have a choice of the way to drop to help balance the matches?

What is so wrong about this? Not enough people? (IF this Is the case we have bigger issues).

I like how you assume all pre-mades are farmers and like to murder PUGs. "premades had to fight their own equal premades?" and "Would the premades be mad they could not farm the pugs? OR that they would have balance forced on them?"

Here's a concept. Pre-mades use the highest Elo in the team for the whole team. That means when I drop with a truly good player, the game counts me the same as them. Thus we get more newbies on our team, or the other team gets more good players to balance things out.

The true problem is people not realizing that once one side gets a numerical advantage, it's pretty much over, unless the other side makes major mistakes.

This isn't an easy game. If you only have fun when you win, this game may not be for you. I have fun in any well fought game, and I often congratulate the people who gank me if they do it well. My Battlemaster got murdered the other day by a wolfpack that did well. I fell behind the main force due to sniping (took fire, and returned it) and they did it masterfully. A Spider distracted me, while the rest of the lance lined up to Alpha me in the back. I didn't cuss them for being a Evil Try-Hard Pre-made, I congratulated them on a job well done and sat back to watch the rest of the show.

Furthermore, the game has plenty of people, but if you start chopping the queues up, then they will be stretched thin. If you cut it in half, then the MM will take longer to make matches, and would likely wind up with worse matches since it would have less people to work with.

Move newbies off by themselves, and imagine them waiting 5 minutes for the MM to fail. Rinse, repeat and how many would decide the game is dead and move on?

[Khobai]

Quote

Here's a concept. Pre-mades use the highest Elo in the team for the whole team.

But if those same people always drop with eachother, their ELO is going to be similar anyway. So how does that help?

Theres really only three options to balance premades vs pugs:

1) split queues. max group size for pug queue is 2. groups bigger than 2 go into premade queue. split queues have the obvious disadvantage of dividing the player base.

2) limit premade tonnage to ~220 tons for 4 players. I personally am against this option since its basically the tonnage police telling you what mechs you can and cant play.

3) add respawn gamemodes so pug vs premade doesnt matter anymore. respawns are kindve a no brainer thing. there are reasons just about every other game has respawns. somehow I think this is the least likely option to be explored though.

Edited by Khobai, 26 January 2014 - 08:22 AM.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Mudhutwarrior, on 26 January 2014 - 06:23 AM, said:

You leave out it casuals noobs and those who just want to drop and fight. In game voice has been around since 1999 yet we dont have it and its created this friction that been hear since the start. Try solving a problem rather than beating everyone into the same box. People posting about split ques and in game voip are not trying to kill the game or wipe out the player base. they are trying to increase it and make the gameplay better for (wait for it) Everyone.

First let me just say I am going to squash my inner Grammar National Socialist and move on.

We have in-game VOIP. It's called TS, Mumble etc. You are referring to built-in VOIP. Why bother when there are so many free, fully functional choices out there?

"beating everyone into the same box"? Umm, that's what you want to do, ie force people to use the same product. We advocate choice.

Splitting queues could just as easily lead to empty queues and people facing long waits or failure to find matches. So it's not like split queues are without downsides.

If you think built-in VOIP is so wonderful, why don't you use TS? Encourage the use of the Comstar server etc?

I say it's because you suck at MWO and want something to blame, though how you get from VOIP and queues to you dying in the first minutes of the game from running out into the open (seen it myself and heard it from others) being the fault of the pre-mades is beyond me.

[Khobai]

Quote

Splitting queues could just as easily lead to empty queues and people facing long waits or failure to find matches.

unlikely that splitting one queue into two would cause problems like that.