511 replies to this topic

[Noesis]

Nick Makiaveli, on 08 February 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

First off, it's not cannot, it's I haven't had the time nor inclination to dig it out.

Second, you are taking this way too damn personally. It's like getting pissed that they are only focusing on mech combat and leaving out the far more common conventional warfare.

The game (as pertains to CW) is focused around controlling planets. The merc units will be taking them. House units, based on available info, will fight to help take control. LW players will drop into random matches, again based on available info.

That's it. No judgement, no elitism etc. WTF has a plan to make sure that LW are a faction to be reckoned with, and that's a good thing. But the fact of the matter is there are players who care nothing for the lore, and really don't give a damn that these are mechs and not frames, or suits etc. They just want to drop and shoot stuff. LW is the perfect faction for them as they can just fight and never have to join a unit etc. No groups, no leaders, just fight. That's not me, but it's good they included the option so as to increase the player base.

Lastly, how is it possible that you are a Founder and don't know all this? Did you pony up the case without having a clue?

More projections and fabrications. How can I really be taking this personally, when the content we have been discussing is with respect to you being miss-guided about PGI's use of definitions?

You seem to miss undertsand that all I have complained about is your insinuations that PGI didn't give more awareness to the definition of LWs as a faction. In fact I have gone out of may way to make this distinction that irrespective of anyone's in game application and optional choice as to how players use this catergorisation that it is only your miss representation of how PGI originally supplied this category with the use of speculation to suggest it was just for game play styles.

Nor have I attempted to confirm or deny players right to choose how to play. In fact I have stated above how variable this can be in how much RP a player exercises if any and also that as a result PGI can also be accommodating to these interests without diluting the possibility of an immersive experience. A point I made sure to include before. None of what I was discussing actually confirms or denies the attitudes of players or how they interact with the game then. Only that the definition of a LW factions has more purpose that just an MWO game play category as per your statement.

I don't know why "you" now bring elitism into the equation about these distinctions. But these seemingly are your issues to contend with not mine.

And insults aside, I'm perfectly happy and content with my experience and knowledge of MWO. You only have to read back in this thread to see that the subject material concerning CW you mention I have already covered in context.

If anything if loyalty then has any real purpose in CW I would propose that even anyone associated as a LW in PUG matches will still likely accumulate loyalty distinctions and as a result of this faction requiring some choice in terms of personal direction because this metric exists in MWO. This to provide an understanding of associations and pursue rewards to players for their efforts and that even solo players will be able to choose sides even if more temporary an association than being involved with a house.

There may be random matches they can fit into based on the affiliations they choose on a temporary basis or even battle lines, but I don't see PUGs just randomly appearing all over the IS or not being able to have some determination of how they progress in the game. It is then economical incentives gathered from affiliations that then provide bonuses with organisations to show loyalty or allegiance. House factions and Mercs then exploring more rewards and opportunities with their further options in CW.

And I'm also intrigued then why medallions of different metals are being supplied from the Phoenix project with loyalty bonuses if there is no real benefit from exercising loyalty with anything but a random process. Since even with a positive skewed progression I can see some negative impact in loyalty from fighting alongside an enemy of theirs. Still awaiting details as to how this will impact neutral parties or whether there may be more bias for shifts if associated with houses, and presumably some dispensation to Merc corps as they operate in this way (it being business) and the idea that the houses can utilise them as needs of course. Loyalty would be meaningless then if there wasn't some way to "break it" or show disloyalty surely by definition?

Will await the details for CW to see how this all actually interplays, but happy to consider that PGI have more understanding with the use of lore and its meaning than just arbitrary game play mechanics.

[Nick Makiaveli]

InsectMech, on 08 February 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

I for one might spend a dime on this game if I see PGI separate PUG's and Pre mades. It will finally show a desire to have the game appeal to new or casual players and not just treat them like fodder for whales and gankers.

If they don't have enough players to have a separate queue, then they will realize how many new and casual players the have lost.

Same reason high school teams don't play vs pro teams.

How about I call you a pathetic, no talent loser who is just a whiny, little *****? I mean after all you just waltzed in here and called me a whale and a ganker. I mean I bought the Overlord package ($80), some MC, and I run in pre-mades.

Here's a thought. How about PGI knows exactly how many people have signed up and downloaded the game. They know exactly how many people have played less than 25 games and quit. They also negotiated an extension on the Mechwarrior franchise with Microsoft, so I seriously doubt they are losing money and facing a collapse.

Here's another thought. A lot of us went thru the exact same thing new people are going through now. We toughed it out and are still here. Sure there are some founders who were new when everyone was new, but so?

The more you play, the better you get. Unless you are the type who only has fun when they are winning, then you will have fun while playing. Course if you are under 30, then I bet you are exactly that type, and, well, i cn haz ur stuffz?

[Roadbeer]

Deathlike, on 08 February 2014 - 05:38 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure the platform would be: BACON FOR ALL!

Make it happen.

Nah dude, not government subsidized bacon.
You want your bacon, get off your entitled ass and earn your bacon.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Roadbeer, on 08 February 2014 - 06:18 PM, said:

Nah dude, not government subsidized bacon.
You want your bacon, get off your entitled ass and earn your bacon.

I believe the phrase is.......

[Navy Sixes]

Hey, great flame out fun-time thread. No sarcasm, either. Fun to watch y'all flip out. Anytime anyone says, "PUGs vs. Prems," It's a chance for everyone to fire off their troll-cannons.

[Sandpit]

Tycho von Gagern, on 08 February 2014 - 07:22 PM, said:

Hey, great flame out fun-time thread. No sarcasm, either. Fun to watch y'all flip out. Anytime anyone says, "PUGs vs. Prems," It's a chance for everyone to fire off their troll-cannons.

[Xtrekker]

whiskey tango foxtrot, on 08 February 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

@ Nick , I took what you said as a good thing , we will carve out our own spot and help those who want it......@ Roadbeer...maybe the Lone Wolfs will have their own planet some time...after all we are over 600 strong....

Maybe you should just call yourself a players' union.

[Joseph Mallan]

Noesis, on 08 February 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:

I have no specific evidence no, but considering that from an understanding in lore LWs existed I therefore have no evidence to suggest that PGI wouldn't consider them as a valid faction as a result or more the associated of not being a part of a large group. It is still a valid connection in terms of definable definitions based on the differing groups from canon.

As such it is your place to give credibility and justification toy your claim in the absence of evidence. I offering reasonable and logical doubt to your claims that you cannot substantiate.

I have a good grasp of the how the houses and factions will be associated and have a significant involvment in CW. I also know that not being a member of such groups may minimise opportunities or capabilities for the very reasons your statinf in the game play. So I have done my research.

My point is regarding what LW definitions are not artificial in nature and that they have a legitimate place in canon irrespective of how that place will orientate itself as a part of CW. Whereas you are stating that it never had a valid place by definition and that PGI made it up just to placate a game play style, of which you have no evidence to state this as fact.

Burden of proof is on you.

Only one lone Wolf I know of in Canon. The Bounty Hunter. And he even has a Lance he teams with at times. Lone Wolves, the Merc Command is also a Canon unit. So unless you get permission to have the name for your own, you may need to cahnge your name... I would vote to let you keep it as you do sound as though you follow the Canon charter pretty closely already.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 09 February 2014 - 08:30 AM.

[Noesis]

Bounty Hunter.

Lone Wolves.

Rich Noblemen maintaining a Security Mech warrior on the Payroll.

Pirate Captains with status Mechs

Solaris Combatants.

Some Periphery pilots.

You could consider the likes of the Colonial Marshalls, DEST and Death Commandos who essentially worked solo. Though these are affiliated with the houses.

Lone Wolves are mercenary Mech Warriors with no long-term contracts and are not affiliated with a particular mercenary unit. And yes I recognise that there were very few or effective members of note from this faction. But the point made is that this is a viable faction even if representation with it should be uncommon/rare.

In fact contrary to the current abundant PUG situation where people are playing solo with some significance at the moment as opposed to pre-made lances this shouldn't be the situation according to canon.

Battle Mechs and logistics associated with them are of course not cheap and require some organisation to use. So I have no illusions that ideally the predominance of MWO pilots should ideally be associated with the Houses, Clans or Merc Corps.

I'm hoping that incentives associated with being a Member of House/Clan/Merc Corp however in CW will encourage most people to join either a Merc Corp or at least become affiliated with some of the Houses or Clans to be recognised as a Military Pilot.

With the simplified economics, rewards and lack of repair and re-arm then there are few disincentives for a player to be a member of a large organisation. I even imagine that access to facilities (e.g. hangers) and drop ships will all still be mostly accessible despite mostly needing to be affiliated to some organisation to sensible use these things.

So as much as there isn't much of a purposeful reason relating to game play (other than unity, effectiveness and friendships etc), I do hope that more details regarding CW will try to encourage pilots to be more affiliated to organisations. If anything to give appropriate benefits as being helpful to the accumulation and maintenance of loyalty and good relations with whichever group of choice you prefer.

In fact I would like to encourage the idea of making enemies based on who you side with and also a need to perform regular duties in order to maintain certain levels of influence. I would be disappointed if loyalty was just about a linear incremental gain with no loss based on who you work for as that then wouldn't be a useful metric for this.

E.g If you are a Davion pilot doing missions against the Draconis Combine then any loyalty gains you achieve would incur some penalty to relations with Kurita.

Mercs would need to incur less of penalty due to their neutral affiliations, but could be alleviated with not achieving as much appreciable gains with loyalty to their employer at the same time. This could then be skewed so that loyalty gains here overall are positive despite negatives and favourable for Mercs due to the nature of their relations. This would also make more sense then for house pilots to gain more loyalty and negative impact to enemies due to their more strict service loyalties.

For LWs then not identifying themselves as Merc Corps but still neutral might just be a +/- similar to House Pilots but no where near effecting loyalty levels so significantly which would at least mean more of a need to show loyalty to an employer or organisation. And subsequently from a loyalty perspective and the following incentives and benefits then encourage pilots to become members of groups, even if just by definition.

So I'm hoping that PGI/IGP whilst being accomodating to play styles can still help to encourage pilots to join organisations even if they then still don't drop as pre-mades or need to join player run groups but can still be associated with Houses/Clans even if only from a point of realism to canon. Ideally I'd like to think that MWO pilots can be more sociable without inane drama or political agendas unrelated to the inner sphere to try and help people realise the advantage of playing the game as members of a larger player group. (Which can be fun and helpful).

At the very least providing details, incentives and opportunity for pilots to recognise the benefits to be more affiliated with the more specific Houses and Clans despite variable play styles.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Noesis, on 08 February 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

<words and such>

Seriously? That's what you took from it?

Here's the problem, you are espousing your OPINION of what the game SHOULD BE. Whereas I am giving, to the best of my recollection, what PGI has said it IS and WILL BE.

You brought elitism because you think I am relegating LW to the background as if they are second class citizens. I am saying that PGI is making this game centered around Mercs and House units. Which covers almost every single character in every book, novel, etc. Yes, I know all about the BH and his tricked out Marauder etc.

So what's the problem? If you are a casual player, then LW is the perfect faction. No fuss, no hassles etc. Just drop and play. That doesn't preclude people like whiskey tango foxtrot from creating a unit made up entirely of LW, some 600 strong from what I heard.

If you aren't a casual player, and don't want to join a Merc unit, or a House, then drop as a LW. Again, what's the problem?

We know that Merc units will get contracts from Houses as part of CW. It's conceivable that LW could get contracts, but I doubt it as it would dilute the Merc faction...


Ok now I am confused, as your latest post is now favoring Merc/House pilots.

It will be what it will be....have fun and see ya on the battlefield.

[Noesis]

Nick Makiaveli, on 09 February 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

More fabrications

Your confused since your projecting on me again. You seem to think that you know what I think and are in fact creating viewpoints that you think exist when they don't.

I wasn't really considering you elitist with relegating the LWs as how they are defined by PGI, I was merely pointing out your view to be incorrect. It is still then your issue if you feel you have been elitist in doing this as this was not my intent. I was only concerned with factual correctness. This since considering any players perspective they may themselves consider their own preferred choice in the game the most suitable to them or from a sense of difficulty or appeal from a "character" perspective.

The ideals I mention above are to try and associate the idea of canon being more realistic and also to give some semblance of meaning to the idea of the loyalty mechanism to game play and identifying in game associations and player choices.

I don't think it is so wrong to reward beneficial gains if belonging to larger organisations as this is how the politics will be best represented in the game. And as such you still then could choose to play the game in a solo game play style and still be a member of a House/Clan. So in this sense I'm advocating the idea of people being more involved with the universe by association whilst still accommodating various play styles in the process and this whilst considering the real orientations as they existed in BT. The freedom to choose is still there and does not detract from say a casual game player who wants to play solo and could still then do this whilst affiliated to a House or Clan.

So I will re-iterate again that my concern with your original points where that you stated that PGI made the LW definition purely for arbitrary game play mechanics and not that they existed in lore and could have been recognising and providing for this faction as a viable definition.

It has also been suggested that for player run organisations like Merc Corps there will be an incured MC and C-Bill charge from infrastructure to form them, this sensibly to avoid any spamming of Merc Corps and for people to consider these groups with some serious conviction. I also remember some time ago the notional if unpopular idea of people in Merc Corps to also be premium time users for the opportunity to garner the various specific game play elements associated with them. So there could be a very real difference and potential need to do things in terms of organisations and factional association in the game to perform the abilities of Mercs.

But if it helps you sleep at night I will state I did not consider you as being elitist, only factual incorrect about PGI's motivations and for valid reasons.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Noesis, on 09 February 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

Your confused since your projecting on me again. You seem to think that you know what I think and are in fact creating viewpoints that you think exist when they don't.

I wasn't really considering you elitist with relegating the LWs as how they are defined by PGI, I was merely pointing out your view to be incorrect. It is still then your issue if you feel you have been elitist in doing this as this was not my intent. I was only concerned with factual correctness. This since considering any players perspective they may themselves consider their own preferred choice in the game the most suitable to them or from a sense of difficulty or appeal from a "character" perspective.

The ideals I mention above are to try and associate the idea of canon being more realistic and also to give some semblance of meaning to the idea of the loyalty mechanism to game play and identifying in game associations and player choices.

I don't think it is so wrong to reward beneficial gains if belonging to larger organisations as this is how the politics will be best represented in the game. And as such you still then could choose to play the game in a solo game play style and still be a member of a House/Clan. So in this sense I'm advocating the idea of people being more involved with the universe by association whilst still accommodating various play styles in the process and this whilst considering the real orientations as they existed in BT. The freedom to choose is still there and does not detract from say a casual game player who wants to play solo and could still then do this whilst affiliated to a House or Clan.

So I will re-iterate again that my concern with your original points where that you stated that PGI made the LW definition purely for arbitrary game play mechanics and not that they existed in lore and could have been recognising and providing for this faction as a viable definition.

It has also been suggested that for player run organisations like Merc Corps there will be an incured MC and C-Bill charge from infrastructure to form them, this sensibly to avoid any spamming of Merc Corps and for people to consider these groups with some serious conviction. I also remember some time ago the notional if unpopular idea of people in Merc Corps to also be premium time users for the opportunity to garner the various specific game play elements associated with them. So there could be a very real difference and potential need to do things in terms of organisations and factional association in the game to perform the abilities of Mercs.

But if it helps you sleep at night I will state I did not consider you as being elitist, only factual incorrect about PGI's motivations and for valid reasons.

Holy mother of god.....what the **** kind of drugs are you on?

You know nothing about this subject, you refuse to learn anything about it, and then ignore your own posts so you can contradict what you said in order to talk trash about me, and I am the one making stuff up?

Ok, you win, I am wrong, I made the whole thing up, I even faked that CW video where they talked about Mercs.

[Sandpit]

Nick Makiaveli, on 09 February 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

Holy mother of god.....what the **** kind of drugs are you on?

You know nothing about this subject, you refuse to learn anything about it, and then ignore your own posts so you can contradict what you said in order to talk trash about me, and I am the one making stuff up?

Ok, you win, I am wrong, I made the whole thing up, I even faked that CW video where they talked about Mercs.

Well at least you're not single-handedly ruining the game Like Road is

[Noesis]

I think I'll wait till something more sensible and less childish is offered to the thread that is of value and interest.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Noesis, on 09 February 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

I think I'll wait till something more sensible and less childish is offered to the thread that is of value and interest.

Wow...we finally agree on something!!!

[Rhent]

If MWO was a successful game with a large player base, then this would make sense. You would also see rated matches set up as well. However as the game stands now, the queue times are getting significantly larger and the flub ups continue to happen from the Piranha team.

If you want Piranha to loose the IP and for it to go to another company down the line, then push for separating the queues. Otherwise, continue to enjoy the fine quality product that Piranha puts out.

[CB Pilot]

By all the expected hate filled trolling by the expected players/base you prove what is already well known on these and many other forums.

Keep poisoning the community for PGI I am sure they will thank you for the loss of customers.

[Roadbeer]

InsectMech, on 09 February 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

By all the expected hate filled trolling by the expected players/base you prove what is already well known on these and many other forums.

Has nothing to do with the conversation, ergo (Latin), that makes you the troll there Puddin.

InsectMech, on 09 February 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

Keep poisoning the community for PGI I am sure they will thank you for the loss of customers.

How am I poisoning the community other than mocking those who engage in the whole "PGI Lied, they eat puppies" and other bits of hyperbole?

I'm also curious about how I can simultaneously be responsible for the death of MWO, while being an ardent white knight PGI apologist?

I think you neckbeards all need to get together and make a poll about what my status really is. This is serious business.

Edited by Roadbeer, 09 February 2014 - 02:41 PM.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Rhent, on 09 February 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

If MWO was a successful game with a large player base, then this would make sense. You would also see rated matches set up as well. However as the game stands now, the queue times are getting significantly larger and the flub ups continue to happen from the Piranha team.

If you want Piranha to loose the IP and for it to go to another company down the line, then push for separating the queues. Otherwise, continue to enjoy the fine quality product that Piranha puts out.

Not sure what times you are playing at, but I rarely have trouble getting matches, even at Midnight weekdays (Central time zone in American FTR, forget off the top of my head what that is in Greenwich Mean Time).

Also, PGI just extended their contract with Microsoft, so MWO is theirs through 2017? I think it was.

[CB Pilot]

Road, as usual stalking and name calling but to correct you and to elaborate on my point I will respond.

The OP's topic is about separate queue's so new, solo, and casual players do no leave for lack of fun or fairness etc. This has been a very popular valid issue and complaint for a very long time, so even the "Evil Pre made" player base as you call your self can see it is something that deserves more than trolling and name calling.

As the "K town Baker" or in other words a person that Trolls a thread so much that they get censored, locked or sent away. You in fact do not promote a friendly or informative community, especially for the new or causal and solo customer base.

The anti new player community attitude you and others create along with game features from PGI that also make the game anti new player friendly have everything to do with this thread, ergo.......... I am not Trolling or name calling like you.

Please stop trolling or calling people names and maybe try to add positive or constructive responses to a large player base that has questions or valid opinions on the game.