48 replies to this topic

[Valkaryie]

Fix the broken mechs please spiders are unhittable even when standing still full alpha 54 damage when standing still ac20 2 mediums and srm6x2 turned spider yellow that same alpha would just about core an atlas. Mediums and above have great hit detection but lights seem to be a problem with the hit boxes. A spider doesn't brawl with a victor, but they do cause the mech is broken. You shouldn't have to equipe streaks to counter 1 mech cause of it being broken. Fix the game or if you can not fix the mechs that are broken take them out of service until fixed. Players that play broken mechs know they are using broken mechs. PGI please figure out how to fix problems with hit boxes and speed. When a mech can stand still and take alphas it tells you something. Side note players take use these broken mechs know they are broken and use them.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

uh fix. OK...

[Kenyon Burguess]

atlas hitboxes and spider hitboxes are vastly different in size. I doubt 1/4 of your weapons hit the location you zoomed in on and spread out to the entire mech. theres no way to balance the lights unless they are the size of the heavies and assaults.

[Ximius]

Geist Null, on 25 January 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

atlas hitboxes and spider hitboxes are vastly different in size. I doubt 1/4 of your weapons hit the location you zoomed in on and spread out to the entire mech. theres no way to balance the lights unless they are the size of the heavies and assaults.

That might be part of the issue. I know in other games, when they model most vehicles, they actually take an in-game person and ensure that the vehicle fits properly. For example they do this with all the game models for StarCitizen. However if you look at the Spider and some of the other lights they seem vastly disproportional. If the Spider and others fit a single human, then the Atlas and Stalker must be 3-level entertainment ballrooms with room for 100. Or conversely perhaps only hamsters are allowed to pilot lights?

In any case it does seem somewhat odd that many, many of the matches end with half of a team chasing down 1 last remaining light. I agree that they are supposed to be faster than others, but when it takes many times the number of shots to get 1 down as compared to an Atlas or Stalker, something seems wrong.

The fact is that PGI has a huge number of balance issues that they need to sort out. One would have hoped that by this point they were more polished but the "beta" goes on so lets hope they look at a lot of these.

[MountainCopper]

Lost against a spider in a triple AC2 Battlemaster and a Medium Pulse in the other arm. Fought it for multiple minutes to see I only did 170 damage to it, although on my screen, my AC2 shots hit a lot of times. Every Raven or Jenner would have dead at least twice, but the Spider...

HSR sucks a lot. And yes, the Spider is still broken...

Edited by GoldenFleece, 26 January 2014 - 02:54 AM.

[tangles 253]

agree, the little buggers take as much to bring down as mech's twice and four times their size
please, we need the MOAS (mother-of-all-slippers) to squish 'em good

[Airu]

Funny, yet the problem is not with the spider, but HSR that is most apperent in spiders. What you see on your screen is not what the server may calculate.

People with good ping kill spiders with good ping with no issues.

[Unleashed3k]

then tell me how to get better ping in germany for example? best here is 100+ pings against 20-30 from us/canada then the addition to these damn lil spiders that are nothing more then broken. hit a standing spider bout 940m away with dual gauss full center, it jumped away, next lock on contact, it had 1 red armored arm and a yellow armored leg, no more dmg, it was directly looking my way, tell me whatever u want, full hit, enemy just started moving after he recognized he's been hit, this is just what happens nearly every time u fight a spider. ac5/10/20 etc, u hit em seveveral times, dmg is always on any range split all over the armor.
lrm's would need a double dmg buff to get a chance against spiders again, u fire 500-600lrm in 50' volleys with tag on 300-600m+ on spiders, u see it runnin and jumping on free uncovered area, u see at least 200lrm+ hit the target DIRECTLY into back/feet and U SEE SPIDER HAS STILL YELLOW ARMOR wtf????
it would be really the best to set them out of order until pgi can handle this probs! AND SPIDERS ARE A PROB, ESPECIALLY IN 12PLAYER DROPS its just imba. And no, spiders and other lights arent meant to kill an atlas on their own, they have spot/support roles, these days u see groups of spiders runnin into enemy groups, drop arty, die and quit while their times is wiped, dont think thats a fact that attract new players for mwo anyway if they get their trials artybombed most of the time...

well don't only think about ur own joy trolling others with a spider until pgi drops new content, i know many ppl are bored, but it currently kills gameplay (skirmish 6lights+x vs 10assault/heavy wtf???? go play conquest or assault damn trolls!!!) skirmish is killing others, not capping etc, theres no need for lights, a fast med/heavy can spot enough and has more firepower, but its sooo popular to troll people in bugged mechs and others answer in fear with jumpsniping... bye fun and individual, tactical gameplay (and no, always the same tactic isnt tactical at all^^)

[Corvus Antaka]

Learn2Aim

[Ximius]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 27 January 2014 - 09:48 PM, said:

Learn2Aim

Thank you for being inappropriate, condescending, and rude to the people who actually are providing comment above. Certainly the game will be nice for the 3 of you that are left if that is how you are going to respond to others.

Despite the grammar issues the above post does make some points that should at least get a response from PGI other than your dribble.

[sneeking]

spider isn't broken and its just had a recent nerf, because you cant
shoot a good pilot with the wrong gun.

I get caught plenty trust me, just like I did before the nerf.

if you take notice you will see people like me die in spiders all the time.

[Corvus Antaka]

Ximius, on 28 January 2014 - 05:38 AM, said:

Thank you for being inappropriate, condescending, and rude to the people who actually are providing comment above. Certainly the game will be nice for the 3 of you that are left if that is how you are going to respond to others.

Despite the grammar issues the above post does make some points that should at least get a response from PGI other than your dribble.

Sorry. Let me rephrase.

I don't have problems hitting or killing spiders. Please learn to aim.

[Targaryen X]

Its not that spiders cant be hit, its that they only sometimes actually register the damage. Yes the little buggers are hard to hit relative to other mechs, but I too have seen spider pilots get cocky and stop to shoot, and Ill take advantave of the free shot, only to see zero damage, nada zip nothing, from the alpha that quite clearly to me hit them square.
Maybe its not the mech itself but even if its hsr or some other factor that seems to be exacerbated by the spider, it is still an issue that needs to be resolved.
But hey, who am I kidding, the texture bug still exists on frozen, knockdown not only is not back but doesnt ever seem to be mentioned by the devs, but hey, cockpit glass... mobile command posts that dont move... those we apparently needed.

[Mechsniper]

The spider fans running lights want their undue advantage they are currently enjoying. Hence the spider troll lances. I have dual gaussed a spider, with both my mech and the spider standing still. The spider was facing away and it the proceeded to run off with yellow armor only on the rear ct. REALLY? This was at about 100 m using adv. zoom. rear center torso hold. HSR was obviously not a problem as neither mech was moving for over 2 seconds before the shot,nor for at least a second after. This is the worst example I have, but far from the only one. I also have sunk multiple 30 point + alphas into them to have them run off barely scratched. This mech is broke as a bad joke, and needs fixed or temporarily disabled.

[Wesxander]

I remember when spiders got nerfed recently and started dying. Now spider pilots ,most the good one anyways, are fighting at range 500 plus. All of your short ranged weapons do next to nothing damage at that range. Then if spider does close and runs in between you at high speed you expect to able to hit it and it die instantly. How about the 8 plus er ppc shots I have to put into an atlas back just to get the armor off? Oh wait that's an atlas taking more armor hits than it should no problem there. I am curious about those of you saying a spider should die easy. Have you played Battle tech miniatures at all ? Spider moves 9 then fires. Try and hit it using the board game rules. Oh wait you want short range shooting game. You don't want lights hard to kill they should die on first shot at long range. You don't want LRM's in the game messes up your short range shooting game as well.
Let's recap that spider moves 9 hexs that's +3 to hit results. Base gunnery is usually a 5 for Innersphere. That puts the hit results at an 8 wait you ran as well that puts it at 10. Anything outside of 3 hexes is usually plus 2 to the result for a 12 if using short ranged weapons. If using long ranged weapons stll looking at 10 plus.

FYI I am one spider pilots that has taken to range snap shots and back sniper shots. Lately if spider closes to within 250 of heavy and assault mechs he had better have one foot on the mech accelerator and the other on the jump jets control as well. Why is when I am in duel with another light at short range and I have to dump in 6 rounds of 10 point damage to them that is ok ?

If you want lights out the game then by all means make diamond composite armored 150 kph target easy to die past range 500 one shot. After all spiders should not be able to surive in the game simply cause you can core an atlas in 3 shots at range 250, even though that same atlas is only going 0 to 24 kph when you core it, therefore a spider at range 600 should die 1 shot. Your not happy that mechs shouldn't be able to shoot past their range 250 with half and quarter damage. In the minatures version an PPC spider staying at range 500 means no chance to hit for ac 20's medium lasers and more , UNLESS the spider stands still and the shooting mech does the same.

So you want bork the spider fine do so. Then put all weapons ranges to the range they supposed to be. That's right no ac 20's past 250, etc etc. No x3 for all ballistic weapons and no x2 for lasers. Then let's see how you deal with that. The actual weapon ranges with no extensions. Many the old school battle tech players been around since the 80's are fine with those rules. The range rules you have now are more solaris rules anyways.

PGI go ahead and make a lights take full damage when moving regardless of speed and range. On the same hand cut the ranges down to their real levels. No more ac 20's shooting the base range of a standard ppc. Everyone will be happy then. All the lights and even the assaults will be taking ER ppcs and other long range weaponry as they do in the actual 3050 tech readout.

Edited by Wesxander, 30 January 2014 - 01:53 AM.

[Wesxander]

FYI I had dual gauss hit me at range 300 recently cored me first shot me going max speed as well. Similar results with ac 20's as well. So I figured had to mess up the players beads or better yet stay range 500 plus and hit and run to stay alive using terrain to full effect. I was really pissed few months back when ac 20's range 500 were doing full 20 points damage. How many of you posting I can't kill spiders took advantage of that exploit I wonder?

Still that spider pilots have to duck and weave to stay alive you say there is mech bug.

You know what I have found is the real issue? Pings I will shoot a high ping player no damage registers except maybe every 3rd shot. Yet I will fly by a mech be around the corner safe. Then suddenly I have leg missing a full 3 seconds after I am in cover... WHY because the 350 ping player casually lines me up and shoots and his computer says he hits.

Seen the same affect when I try to strip the back armor off an atlas at range 600 to 700. If he's high ping I am going need x3 to x4 more hits than atlas with say 60 to150 ping.

I would like to see matches with the same ping but don't think that will happen.

[PhoenixFire55]

Geist Null, on 25 January 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

atlas hitboxes and spider hitboxes are vastly different in size. I doubt 1/4 of your weapons hit the location you zoomed in on and spread out to the entire mech. theres no way to balance the lights unless they are the size of the heavies and assaults.

Sorry but this is just a pile of BS. It stands still 80m in front of you, you put your crosshair right in the middle of it and it is hit by all you weapons, SRMs and LBXs included.

[PhoenixFire55]

Airu, on 26 January 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:

Funny, yet the problem is not with the spider, but HSR that is most apperent in spiders. What you see on your screen is not what the server may calculate.

People with good ping kill spiders with good ping with no issues.

It is indeed a HSR issue but the point of HSR was to make it 'you hit it on your screen then you hit it'. It was supposed to minimize ping-related issues. Prior to HSR I could at least tell after a few shots just how much do I need to lead each mech now its just random. Now you hit it and your crosshair says you hit it but it registers no damage whatsoever.

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 28 January 2014 - 09:20 AM, said:

Sorry. Let me rephrase.

I don't have problems hitting or killing spiders. Please learn to aim.

Tell us smart guy what are we supposed to learn. It stands still 80m in front of you. You slowly and carefully line up your crosshair right on the middle of its CT and push an 'alpha' button ... only to see nothing happens. Care to tell me what am I to learn from this?

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 30 January 2014 - 02:27 AM.

[SweetJackal]

When complaining about hit registration problems be sure to include a screenshot of your ping for that match. Significant differences between your ping and your opponent or high pings all around will have a dysync from what you see happen to what the server calculates. This has had shots vanish into the aether against Heavy and Assault mechs, it's not a Spider problem.

You also claim that the spider was just standing still. If this happens again then please do provide photo evidence or a video of your play for analysis as to why this happened. As it stands, the claim of hitting a Spider that has decided to stand still with an AC/20, 2 MLs and 2 SRM6s sounds like a tall tale, a feeling that is compounded by your claim that such a volley would core an Atlas. That weapon combo is not an Alpha, as only the AC/20 is pinpoint damage, the MLs are a DoT and the SRMs are extremely short range and a spread.

So please do leave hyperbole at the door.

For easy video capture you can use the program OBS and save the broadcast as a file. You can upload this content to youtube for free and embed the video directly to this forum. As it stands I'm more willing to bet that you preemptively fired your volley, missed with the AC/20, was outside of the range on the SRMs so they harmlessly detonated at their max range and you raked the MLs into it's torso, which registered the hit.

Now, if the spider was really, really close to you then Weapon Convergence Problems apply, something created by how your weapons aim where you are looking and the distance between your viewpoint and where your weapons fire from. Here is a lengthy and in depth post I made back in October about this and what you need to do as a pilot to overcome it.

SuckyJack, on 22 October 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

No, it is not exploiting. It's you relying on Weapon Convergence to do the aiming for you that is causing you to miss. This is something that I have constantly observed and a reason why one of my best performing mechs is that horrible Dragon Champion that's on Trial.

Your shots always come from your weapon when you shoot and your aim point where your weapons converge is always dependent on the 1st person viewpoint. Convergence also snaps instantly to your aim point.

At a distance this makes shots easy as you just point and click. The difference between where your viewpoint is to where your weapons are firing from is rendered insignificant due to the distance you are firing at. At worse you need to be aware of the terrain around you blocking fire lines from your low mounted weapons.

When targets get closer then you have to account for that difference more. You need to be aware of these fire lines when near friendlies to avoid Friendly Fire.

The Spider is a unique mech in terms of design, short and slim with it's STs mounted high and it's CT much narrower at the top and wider at the belly. This small profile allows it to squeeze into these differences.

For example, a Spider can get point blank with a Centurion, literally hugging it and due to the height and placement of the Centurion's weapons the Centurion will not be able to effectively hit the Spider if they try aiming right at it. This is the case with many mechs.

So how do you hit it? What is the trick? Stop relying on weapon convergence. I said before that I've gotten damn good at gutting Spiders with the Trial Dragon Champion. This is because the arm weapons on that mech reach out so far from the CT it's nearly laughable at the amount of space you need to give yourself to not hammer terrain with your weapons. This helped me learn that to hit a Spider at close range you need to not aim at the Spider but aim in a manner that the Spider lays out on your weapon's firing lines.

You need to do the work and the aiming instead of letting the 'targeting computer' doing it for you. If I am in a Dragon with two LLs mounted to the left arm and a Spider is speeding close to me and moving to pass by me to my left then I need to aim to the right of the Spider as it enters close range to lay the firing lines of my pair of LLs right on the Spider itself. In essence, have the Spider run right into my fire.

If a Spider was hugging close to a Centurion with an Arm Mounted Weapon then to hit the Spider the Centurion would have to turn to it's left. In doing so you would be putting the barrel of the AC or Laser right against the Spider and allow that weapon to hit the mech.

Now, should this stay in? I believe so. Instant Convergence for every weapon no matter where it is mounted is more Arcade Action than it is Simulation, the matter of how convergence works to make it harder to hit certain targets is something that adds back in a bit of simulation and thought to aiming. I would rather go a step further and make all torso mounted weapons have a fixed convergence and leave the dynamic convergence that we currently have only for arms with lower articulation and lateral movement.

TL:DR? I highly suspect your aim, latency or lack of understanding as to how the weapons work is the cause of your experience, not a design flaw with Spiders that is causing it to be invincible. Please post pictures or video of this event should it happen again and be sure to include Pings. This will provide better information as to why this is happening.

[Ximius]

SuckyJack, on 30 January 2014 - 02:50 AM, said:

-removed too much {Scrap} to quote-

Sorry buddy, but everyone that has issues with hit recognition is not required to video capture every battle they are in. This thread is about unusual problems with mechs such as spiders and how it related to hit recognition. You come in here and throw this down "picture or it didnt happen" {Scrap} as if somehow we need to justify posting here.

Well here's a news flash, we dont owe you anything. These are genuine issues that we would like addressed and unless you are here to justify how hit recognition is in fact not broken then your posts are to be immediately ignored going forward.

Please do leave your condescension at the door.