304 replies to this topic

[Kill Dozer]

I dont care for the dirty glass effect at all, myself.

[TehSBGX]

Nevermind Cockpit Glass -.- I'm still waiting for an option to remove film grain.

[stjobe]

Can anyone tell my why the damn glass effect is green?

My 'mech looks like it has a bad case of fungal infection...

[Mystere]

Jade Kitsune, on 29 January 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

I also frankly consider using MACRO's a cheat also... as it's an external program doing the imput of the button command and not yourself.

If using macros is a form of cheating, then what is this?

[stjobe]

Mystere, on 30 January 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

If using macros is a form of cheating, then what is this?

Right back at you, what the hell IS that?

Edit: Never mind, some creative URL hacking sent me to http://emotiv.com/. "A revolutionary personal interface for human computer interacton", apparently.

Well, we've all heard that one before.

Edited by stjobe, 30 January 2014 - 11:39 AM.

[Noesis]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 30 January 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

Now you sound like a cry baby.

I don't care to do it, but the effect is not worth all the cavetching.

The original Seismic Module was more of a hack than this ever was.

I'm not complaining. I'm stating how I find things in relation to this issue.

And I at least don't throw my toys out the pram cause I don't like something, unlike the hackers.

I suggest changing your nappy since as usual I suspect your full of it on this one.

[Ngamok]

Mystere, on 30 January 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

If using macros is a form of cheating, then what is this?

Bah I couldn't quickly find one of just Michael Ealy so I will soon be like him in the show with the glowing face !!

[Chemie]

Here is my take until PGI says otherwise:

1. While majority of ppl say they hate it, also a majority says that is does not significantly affect their game play. Therefore, by definition, removing does not provide "a significant advantage" which means it complies with CoC.
2. Or, some ppl do have issues either because of monitor quality, graphics card, room lighting, color blindness, old eyes etc and say they have had a decrease in effectiveness. Therefore, using this setting is simply restoring you back to where everyone else is. Again, in compliance as you are not gaining an advantage.

The CoC allows for user.cfg changes. It does prevent changing any other game files "for an advantage" but this does not do that.

If PGI does say it brings unfair advantage (or those who posted here declaring people are geeting a huge advantage), then we are back to why they felt they had to force everyone to downgrade with this vision impairment. Or why it affects some mechs more than others. Or why they feel having ugly graphics enhances enjoyment of their game.

[Dimento Graven]

Noesis, on 30 January 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

Roll on the 4th. Cheaters never win, even those in denial.

I'll just put this here then:

Kyle Polulak, on 28 January 2014 - 11:38 PM, said:

I'll just leave this here.

Although I can understand the feeling of being cheated when someone seems to have an advantage, I have to disagree that the community should be restricted from using these mods until we get something more official in the UI. We generally dislike user.cfg changes but it's part of running any game. I do not consider it negative or in anyway a reason to disrespect other players whom are just trying to have fun and change things up with their clients; it's clearly in the spirit of experience and not a tactic to raise someone's skill.

If people are experiencing better frame-rates because they do not render the cockpit glass then that's something we should be looking at but that's something I know we'd be very interested in seeing in our FPS tests.

I'm unlocking the thread to keep the conversation going.

If PGI says it ain't cheatin', it ain't cheatin'.

Noesis, on 30 January 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

Eh? My comment was made recently today other quotes earlier?

Including: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3110483

I can see how you could miss read the above short statement however and extrapolate your own conclusion to it however so no biggie. But maybe if you read threads in their presented order and in their entirety this would help to eliminate these kinds of interpretations?

Except the GM's supposed email, we can't see it so we should have some reasonable doubt as to the existence of it, was made approximately 2 days before the follow up from Kyle.

Ultimately, we'll all know PGI's stance on it come 2/4.

[Dimento Graven]

Noesis, on 30 January 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

Don't want to try it, I like the cockpits as they are and they make the game more enjoyable for me. Same with the glass and I don't find it noticeable or intrusive.

Good for you, and congratulations. You're certainly welcome to play in any visual mode you find appealing to you.

Please let the rest of us exercise the same privilege.

Quote

Removing the cockpit simply allows for some visionary aspects of the field of view to be readily evident. Even if it is just the removal of the cockpit bars as a visual barrier. This before considering any further beneficial advantage from using a fish bowl lens effect for awareness.

Like the person with a monitor much larger than you has a visual advantage, or the person with mech better video card, or the person who has setup a 3 monitor array to display near 180 degree viewing, or the person who has a better gaming mouse and keyboard and utilizing their built-in macro capabilities, or the person who has a better internet connection than you, or the person that can afford to spend real money on MC and acquire more 'mechs and equipment far faster than you can through earning C-Bills, or the guys who purchase hero and champion mechs with real money where you can only purchase CBill purchasable mechs and their advantage of 10 to 50 percent faster exp/CBill earn rate, and on, and on, and on.

--------------------------------------------
EDIT: OMG someone mentioned color blindness, I could fill this server's entire hard drive array full of ranting on that. You jerks with your non-colorblindness having the advantage to determine when your weapons are ready (ESPECIALLY THAT F'ING GAUSS RIFLE), where as the rest of us are having to deal with color saturation that washes out that f'ing green (which is why GREEN tinting on cockpit glass was such a CRAPTASTIC idea btw) ready square when you need/want to see it, when you can't hear the EVER SO CRULELY QUIET gauss charging noise!!! ARAGAGHGHGHGGH!!!H!HGWER$@#@!#$@#%!!@

Sorry... I'm just frustrated about that. Fortunately no cockpit glass means I have a better chance of determining the color of those stupid little squares...

Now back to the real discussion...
------------------------------

You seem to believe you enforce some personalized idea of 100% equanimity to this game, and let me tell you it's a dream. About the only game that's as close to being 100% equal for everyone involved is Tic-tac-toe, and even then, the chicken usually always wins.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 30 January 2014 - 03:33 PM.

[Roland]

I'm not sure why folks are arguing over whether changing the user.cfg is cheating.

It is what it is. No one can tell what you do to it, so the point is moot.

And ultimately, the same thing is gonna happen every time some thing is added which screws up our visibility. Some folks are gonna find out how to turn it off, and then you're gonna be putting some players at a disadvantage.

So really, you shouldn't be putting things like that in the game.

[Noesis]

If you have a problem with other technical issues with the game as being considered as cheating or gaining an advantage as described by the ToS then I would suggest contact support using the email protocol to mention this.

I for one see no problem in people investing in good technology for their own pleasure and no where in the ToS do I see limitations on RL tech purchases become the domain of PGI/IGP. And a 180 display still does not remove the overall viewing settings with removing the actual cockpit, those elements are still relevant visually.

What I don't like is people gaining an unfair advantage when not needed for a game I play and pay money for. And imho this falls into that category.

But as you say PGI/IGP will determine the best outcome for this.
And I don't mind if PGI introduce a toggle switch to turn cockpit glass off for the benefit of some players, it is hardly a big issue imho. But that is different from removing the cockpit itself.

[Dimento Graven]

Noesis, on 30 January 2014 - 03:37 PM, said:

If you have a problem with other technical issues with the game as being considered as cheating or gaining an advantage as described by the ToS then I would suggest contact support using the email protocol to mention this.

I for one see no problem in people investing in good technology for their own pleasure and no where in the ToS do I see limitations on RL tech purchases become the domain of PGI/IGP. And a 180 display still does not remove the overall viewing settings with removing the actual cockpit, those elements are still relevant visually.

What I don't like is people gaining an unfair advantage when not needed for a game I play and pay money for. And imho this falls into that category.

But as you say PGI/IGP will determine the best outcome for this.
And I don't mind if PGI introduce a toggle switch to turn cockpit glass off for the benefit of some players, it is hardly a big issue imho. But that is different from removing the cockpit itself.

Then we've come to some level of agreement. As long as PGI can provide a switch to turn the glass off, I can live with being forced to have the cockpit enabled.

I never found the cockpit to be an impediment to my play, I just found that the LACK of a cockpit made the game SO FRICKIN' PRETTY it was fun to just 'walk around' and see the sights in my 'mech.

There's plenty of game play vid of me doing well, with the cockpit, on YouTube if you doubt my veracity on the subject.

[Noesis]

Dimento Graven, on 30 January 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

You seem to believe you enforce some personalized idea of 100% equanimity to this game, and let me tell you it's a dream. About the only game that's as close to being 100% equal for everyone involved is Tic-tac-toe, and even then, the chicken usually always wins.

Everyone having similar cockpits as represented visually on their screen (i.e. it being present in the visuals) would be an egalitarian stance. Everyone would be the same and therefore 100% equity with the cockpit being 100% there.

(I was tempted to say an "eggalitarian viewpoint").

[Dimento Graven]

Noesis, on 30 January 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

Everyone having similar cockpits as represented visually on their screen (i.e. it being present in the visuals) would be an egalitarian stance. Everyone would be the same and therefore 100% equity with the cockpit being 100% there.

(I was tempted to say an "eggalitarian viewpoint").

Well, not to continue the argument, but just to state it be thorough, you well know that not EVERY cockpit is similar. Some provide wide open views, others unnecessarily teeny, tiny and restrictive (we're talking 'mechs like the Locust, a 'mech that can field so little fire power and carry so little armor, it will NEVER be the threat of say, a Catapult, or come even close to the Spider.

Next, Anyone and everyone can turn their cockpits off if they so choose, allowing everyone to maintain that 'similar' screen. In another thread, someone's already posted how it's done.

Lastly, I believe in operating in the mode that best suits you. There's quite a few people with super great systems playing in the lowest res mode allowed, simply to have as little obstructing their view of the enemy mechs as possible, while others have it on high and have purchased fricking nicknack to stuff into their cockpit and dangle and flash in their eyes while they fight that when I observe these people it reminds of me of staring into my wife's purse.

It's all about choice. If you think you're dying because of people running without cockpits, you can try it a few runs and see if you suddenly start surviving more. I think you'll find what I found... It doesn't add anything to my skill level before cockpit glass, but it's so very nice to look at.

[Grrzoot]

Personally, I feel that the cockpits are an integral part of the game and game mechanics. The cockpit glass does not bother me personally, but i know that at times there have been implentations in this game that have given me motion sickness or headaches. (the first implementation of cockpit shake back in cb with a raven for example)

Being able to remove the cockpit glass or turn it off for these reasons i don't take issue with.

Removing the cockpit entirely i feel is of a completely different level, and notwithstanding pgi's current stance, is dangerouly close to being an exploit.

As an example, a stalker cannot see a locust that is standing underneath it because of torso range and the bottom part of the cockpit, by removing the cockpit in it's entirety, not to mention the extra FOV, the locust is now visible to the stalker pilot because of this change.

That change results in removing an advantage for another player in a way that negatively impacts his play. That is the part that bothers me, not necessarily that it confers advantage to the player, and is 100% undetectable, but that you are removing certain, and what should be given, choices of other players.

that , to me, is the definition of an exploit. Even if we say for argument that this confers no advantage to you, as a using player, it removes other players abilities to be certain that certain game mechanics are in place to allow for a certain style of play, thereby negatively impacting them, and throwing off the idea of a level playing field.

[Noesis]

Dimento Graven, on 30 January 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

Well, not to continue the argument, but just to state it be thorough, you well know that not EVERY cockpit is similar. Some provide wide open views, others unnecessarily teeny, tiny and restrictive (we're talking 'mechs like the Locust, a 'mech that can field so little fire power and carry so little armor, it will NEVER be the threat of say, a Catapult, or come even close to the Spider.

Next, Anyone and everyone can turn their cockpits off if they so choose, allowing everyone to maintain that 'similar' screen. In another thread, someone's already posted how it's done.

Lastly, I believe in operating in the mode that best suits you. There's quite a few people with super great systems playing in the lowest res mode allowed, simply to have as little obstructing their view of the enemy mechs as possible, while others have it on high and have purchased fricking nicknack to stuff into their cockpit and dangle and flash in their eyes while they fight that when I observe these people it reminds of me of staring into my wife's purse.

It's all about choice. If you think you're dying because of people running without cockpits, you can try it a few runs and see if you suddenly start surviving more. I think you'll find what I found... It doesn't add anything to my skill level before cockpit glass, but it's so very nice to look at.

But that's the point of having the cockpit there, its a characteristic associated with using the Mechs, like Mech quirks. With it simply removed then the idea of these characteristics don't apply. Otherwise shall we just make all Mechs the same shape given your uniformity logic?

Otherwise maybe yes we would just have neuro-helmet visuals. But earlier models of the neuro-helmet only helped with stabalising or balancing the Mech, it wasn't till later that a virtual representation was applied as an awareness for the pilot who still had the cockpit and monitors to help as backup. We don't have that neuro-helmet representation as default as a result.

Draw distance issues I know have been reported for those low setting you speak of. I had thought the idea of being able to peak behind buildings to see Mechs on the likes of river city had been corrected? Still another bug does not justify hacking. Its justifies correction by PGI.

But to emphasise my view why I see no cockpit a visual advantage, lets say you are observing at distance normally with a big metal bar across your view. A Mech at distance poking its head out to appear on a ridge line out of radar range or under ECM where that cockpit bar is would then be more readily noticeable if that bar wasn't there wouldn't it? With a cockpit at least you have to scan and/or be aware of these limits to have this awareness.

[C E Dwyer]

Kyle Polulak, on 28 January 2014 - 11:38 PM, said:

I'll just leave this here.

Although I can understand the feeling of being cheated when someone seems to have an advantage, I have to disagree that the community should be restricted from using these mods until we get something more official in the UI. We generally dislike user.cfg changes but it's part of running any game. I do not consider it negative or in anyway a reason to disrespect other players whom are just trying to have fun and change things up with their clients; it's clearly in the spirit of experience and not a tactic to raise someone's skill.

If people are experiencing better frame-rates because they do not render the cockpit glass then that's something we should be looking at but that's something I know we'd be very interested in seeing in our FPS tests.

I'm unlocking the thread to keep the conversation going.

Wasn't sure if it was worth reading anymore of this thread but this post made me think, since the inclusion of cockpit glass my frame rate dropped from around a nice 40-55 at high, very high settings depending on how much boom was going on and how busy things were.

Since the effect has been added i've had to drop all my settings but 2 down to medium to get between 35-50 fps in games.

Coupled to this, I do have to say, that the last couple of days, it is causing eye strain, its fine in brightly lit area's but in shaded places or dark area's you have to really look hard and i' now having to reduce my game time by half or it gets painful.

This does have a knock on effect, sure I can still play but

Is it as much fun with the glass,

No

Does it bring anything to the game, i.e. does it make me feel like I'm a pilot in a big metal killing machine,

Not in the slightest

Is my reduced time in the game, because of eye strain likely to cause me to stop buying premium time.

Yes it will.

I'm happy to pay if I'm going to be able to play 2-3 hours day, but it i'm restricted to only being able to only play one hour a day without discomfort its just not worth me paying for it.

[C E Dwyer]

PropagandaWar, on 30 January 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

Removing the cockpit glass is for wusses who have 1000 different excuses on why they can't play the game as intended.

when 1000 wussies remove mechwarrior online because it causes discomfort, match maker gets worse elo fails even more, income to pgi drops development slow down from the snail pace its at and quite possibly closes down

just because 1000 armchair heroes want smudges on their vdu, you want cockpit effect get an oily rag and wipe it across your monitor

Edited by Cathy, 30 January 2014 - 04:27 PM.

[Whatzituyah]

Cathy, on 30 January 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:

when 1000 wussies remove mechwarrior online because it causes discomfort, match maker gets worse elo fails even more, income to pgi drops development slow down from the snail pace its at and quite possibly closes down

just because 1000 armchair heroes want smudges on their vdu, you want cockpit effect get an oily rag and wipe it across your monitor

If it goes down hill I wonder if Activision is going to have another shot at making a Mechwarrior game.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 30 January 2014 - 04:53 PM.