540 replies to this topic

[Sephlock]

Mudhutwarrior, on 28 January 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

My favorite is when they do go back but just circle while the cap is taken. "Just Stand On It!"

[wanderer]

Joseph Mallan- just, no.

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It has always worked well for me, in life, martial arts, Gaming, you name it. Jump in feet first, take the beating that WILL ensue as I learn the ropes. I would not call paying a game High skill... then again I operate million dollar CNC Machines for a living and making a .02mm mistake can be... costly when its on a $30,000 prototype Engine head!

Now, tell me what happens when you stomp enough of the player base out of the game with mismatches, because they aren't so macho. Wait, you just posted about your PUG alts you can play so your premade stats don't get stained with boot marks from PUGing! Guess getting 50/50 .5 KDR would drag down your main's stats, it's gotta be nice having a scapegoat account to take the pain. Or two.

You know:

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I don't see it this way Kho. My PUG Alts are at or around .500 both W/L and K/D. There is no reason to separate the community.

Meanwhile, the real player stares at his real, PUG stats, feels like the dog tinkled on his leg and pooped on his shoes, and leaves because he's not seeing anything change and randomly gets his teeth kicked in by premades and sync droppers deliberately getting around PGI trying to give the soloers something of a fair shake- while being told he's being fairly matched up.

In fact, how dare you even preach about "taking the beating" when you've got extra virtual bodies keeping your precious good "skills" and stats unmarked by those -dreadful- PUG matches?

The guy taking the real pummeling- and the stats that really exist for you - in PUG gaming are the sad-sack, beat-like-a-dog 50% win rates and .5 KDRs your alts are carrying around. What? You say that's not how it is? You've got skills, right?

Of course it isn't- in premade play. With your premade stats. Which have nothing to do with the reality of a full-time PUG player. And there are good PUG players with positive W/L and KDR stats that are artificially LOW thanks to premades and sync drop teams, just like PUGstomping inflates the stats of the premade or sync drop player.

Teams put into a system that is chaos incarnate, regardless of size, will have an impact greater than they should. This is why we're in stomp mode. Get the teams into team player queues and fit soloers into the gaps, not the other way round.

[Nacho Cat]

I got tired of reading through the qq in this thread, so someone may have already posted this: wouldn't an in-game VOIP or comms system that lets a team talk to each other help fix this problem to some extent? We'd still have scrub pug groups, but at least there would be a tiny iota of more reasonable coordination. Or, failing that, it would at least eliminate the lack of ability to coordinate as an excuse for losing.

Edited by SereneChaos, 28 January 2014 - 01:22 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

wanderer, on 28 January 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:

Joseph Mallan- just, no.



Now, tell me what happens when you stomp enough of the player base out of the game with mismatches, because they aren't so macho. Wait, you just posted about your PUG alts you can play so your premade stats don't get stained with boot marks from PUGing! Guess getting 50/50 .5 KDR would drag down your main's stats, it's gotta be nice having a scapegoat account to take the pain. Or two.

You know:

What happens? A core of players who like the game will either be able to support the game or not. Ah you misinterpret the reason for the Alts. They are fr testing the Elo system for My skills as a PUG Pilot SInce Joe was a PUG for all of 4-6 weeks of closed Beta, then roughly 6 months as a Lawman, I needed to see what MY ability could muster. 6 months later in PUG only I had reached a near same level of play as I have as a Lawman... with one difference. I never saw any Lawmen. There would be 8-12 sometimes 15 of them dropping and I saw 4 Lawmen in my que in 6 months.

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Meanwhile, the real player stares at his real, PUG stats, feels like the dog tinkled on his leg and pooped on his shoes, and leaves because he's not seeing anything change and randomly gets his teeth kicked in by premades and sync droppers deliberately getting around PGI trying to give the soloers something of a fair shake- while being told he's being fairly matched up.

No matter which Alt I am using I am just as real a play as anyone else is. My teeth get kicked in quite often no matter the Alt By premades and by PUGs, The difference is I don't complain about it cause its only a game, and win or lose I can have fun playing a game.

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In fact, how dare you even preach about "taking the beating" when you've got extra virtual bodies keeping your precious good "skills" and stats unmarked by those -dreadful- PUG matches?

Again exactly why I spent 6 moths in silence PUGging! To see if I could carry my weight in this game without better players knowingly picking up my slack.

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The guy taking the real pummeling- and the stats that really exist for you - in PUG gaming are the sad-sack, beat-like-a-dog 50% win rates and .5 KDRs your alts are carrying around. What? You say that's not how it is? You've got skills, right?

The guy taking a real Pummeling is right there beside my Alts Sweating the clock v the enemy's ability to shrea our team.

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Of course it isn't- in premade play. With your premade stats. Which have nothing to do with the reality of a full-time PUG player. And there are good PUG players with positive W/L and KDR stats that are artificially LOW thanks to premades and sync drop teams, just like PUGstomping inflates the stats of the premade or sync drop player.

Elo judges you on the teams win loss, The less restrictions I used on Mech and equipment selections the better my win/loss and KDR. I have one Meta Mech (Jager40). It serves Anton well.

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Teams put into a system that is chaos incarnate, regardless of size, will have an impact greater than they should. This is why we're in stomp mode. Get the teams into team player queues and fit soloers into the gaps, not the other way round.

Teams put into a system meant for teams to face teams Wow this just started teaming with teams! Right, Using comms and dropping with the same folks all the time will help win matches. It will put you in a higher level of players, If you are dropping with a Lawman 4man, you deserve to be in that match as well as the Lawmen, PUG or 4 man. So if you are having a bad time in this game Maybe you are doing something wrong. My worst Alt is my Light/Medium Energy intensive Alt. I am not a good light and fair Medium pilot. The lack o Missiles and ACs reduce my ability to take down my opponents. My DCMS Alt, Does well in Mediums and Heavies, that do not have restrictions on weapons, but lighter weapons and bigger engines take away frm my ability to get the job done. And the FedSun Shiningstar... Had a winning record in an Stock Awesome, 2 Centurions, and of course the Jager40 and Jager20 (2x AC10). Odd thing, Jagers were not as viable as Joe's ride(interesting Elo fact).

So I have been doing my work seeing how Elo panned out and depending on the play style, Elo is no hurting players.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 28 January 2014 - 10:45 AM.

[wanderer]

Been asked for since closed beta, actually. Still hasn't happened, even though it'd likely close the gap considerably and would kill one of the big reasons for imbalanced matches.

[Ngamok]

wanderer, on 28 January 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

Been asked for since closed beta, actually. Still hasn't happened, even though it'd likely close the gap considerably and would kill one of the big reasons for imbalanced matches.

People who want to PUG stomp will just turn to sync dropping as solo.

[Deathlike]

I would say this is how people would expect the MM to do:
newbies/underhive fighting other newbies/underhive
average/casuals fighting other average/casuals
elite fighting other elite
Ideally, 10-12 of the "appropriately slotted ELOs" fighting 10-12 of "equally slotted ELOs" with minimal variance.

What we're playing here is this:
elite+newbies fighting other elite+newbies
elite+newbies fighting other average/casuals
average/casuals fighting other average/casuals
Occasionally, elites+newbies will be joined by a lance of average/casuals in their teams.

Since everything is ELO averaged, these are the teams that are being constructed. Since there can be a clear skill/experience disparity, the likelihood of a roflstomp increases. It can still go either way, but since newbies tend to make more mistakes, the elite have to "correct" those mistakes more often, and sometimes the effort is not enough to overcome the handicap.

If I had to be paired up with newbies, it shouldn't be frequent. If I was paired up with other competent players more, at least if I lost, it was a team effort. None of this will help the overall playing population as it will continue punish the newbies first and foremost, putting them into situations that the elite player has faced more often than not, thus lowering the retention rate as this skill disparity continues.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ngamok, on 28 January 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:

People who want to PUG stomp will just turn to sync dropping as solo.

They do it now, why would they stop?

Please note I am not a fan of Sync dropping. We have limits, play with in them. We are allowed to have 4 man in PUG. That is all we should do... for now.

I still have no mercy once we actually have contracts to uphold. You want our planet? Pry it form our cold inanimate actuators!

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

"Man up & play better" is the only reasonable advice that can be given, as that is what everyone else playing the game has to do in order to avoid being "stomped". Think Jump sniping is OP? Use it. Think LRMs are OP? Use them. Think teamwork and premades are OP? Join in.

as opposed to fixing the game

[wanderer]

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People who want to PUG stomp will just turn to sync dropping as solo.

Put in a small, random delay for queue entry when you hit "launch". Problem solved, and more effectively as the number of players increase.

If it doesn't, that means there's actually a pathetically low number of people playing. So,why don't we see how many people are logged into MWO these days, hmm?

[Mudhutwarrior]

I just dropped twice into full synch drops. And yeah they admitted it. 12/0 12/1, Both under three minutes total.

How does that teach anyone and how does it help anyone past those synch dropping?

Big fan of making groups drop into 12v like we pugs drop into groups. Whats fair is fair. Can't wait to see the forums then.

[LauLiao]

xMEPHISTOx, on 26 January 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:

Indeed...I keep losing, I keep dying, this game sucks, as it certainly cannot be me that is bad.

That's always my first reaction.

"My last 27 games were ROFLStomps! This game sucks!"
"Well, I'm guessing there was ONE common factor of all 27 of those games..."

[Ngamok]

Mudhutwarrior, on 28 January 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

I just dropped twice into full synch drops. And yeah they admitted it. 12/0 12/1, Both under three minutes total.

How does that teach anyone and how does it help anyone past those synch dropping?

Big fan of making groups drop into 12v like we pugs drop into groups. Whats fair is fair. Can't wait to see the forums then.

Blame the players not the match maker. There are many people who want to keep sync dropping for the sake of pug stomping. I am not innocent of that as I said we seem to do it at least once a week when I am on. Sometimes (depending on who is dropping) I want to face my guild mates because there are certain people I do enjoy killing.

Every now and again, we get on the same team totally by chance so there are certain instances that might seem like a sync which isn't. But that isn't very common.

Also, what do you think happened? Do you think all those Steiners synced?

http://cloud-3.steam...CD8FCBAD328866/

Edited by Ngamok, 28 January 2014 - 12:17 PM.

[vogor]

I have played 15 matches last night and about 10 the night before and without a win I am not a prem player. I had some really good games scoring 400 plus points but still without a win. I'm wondering if match making is matching up prem players to the same team so they get the win to benefit from prem cbs. Think about it a team that pay for prem they are going to be very good they play a lot more then the average joe that don't play the game as much. That being said that would make this game pay to win I just hope I am wrong about this and it is just matchmaking f up.

[Ngamok]

vogor, on 28 January 2014 - 12:29 PM, said:

I have played 15 matches last night and about 10 the night before and without a win I am not a prem player. I had some really good games scoring 400 plus points but still without a win. I'm wondering if match making is matching up prem players to the same team so they get the win to benefit from prem cbs. Think about it a team that pay for prem they are going to be very good they play a lot more then the average joe that don't play the game as much. That being said that would make this game pay to win I just hope I am wrong about this and it is just matchmaking f up.

Nah. I have Premium time banked but not running it.

[wanderer]

From experience and asking- no, it doesn't. It's simply a very, very bad matchmaker that people take advantage of.

Because it allows premades and synchronized drops, it allows for stomps- and one thing.

No matter how good you are, no matter what your stats are within reason- if the PUG is bad, you won't win.

[WVAnonymous]

Sandpit, on 27 January 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

I have, I have spent the majority of my time playing this game AS a pug. My experience was different. I maintained a positive KDR and about even on the W/L side of things.
Does that count as spending time in PUGhell? That's about a year's worth of time in nothing but PUGs

Ha, I saw you dropping with Roadbeer and other Mariks yesterday. You made fun of me for running a Commando with lasers. You were dead when you were making the comment, but you were definitely dead as part of a team!

[WVAnonymous]

MischiefSC, on 27 January 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

Rough estimate of your Elo -

Count up total matches played in each weight class (light/medium/heavy/assault).

Subtract your losses from your wins for each total weight class.

Multiply that number by, oh, 5 or 10.

Add that number to 1300.

That's an incredibly rough estimate of your Elo in that weight class. Incredibly rough, since you have no way of knowing the k-factor of your wins or losses (balanced games netted you nothing, games you were supposed to win netted you next to nothing, games you were supposed to win but still lost cost you plenty, etc).

Still though, the total number of wins more than losses in a weight class x 5 or so plus 1300 is likely a conservative estimate.

So... a 1.0 W/L nets you a 1300. I'm pretty sure the k-factor becomes critical...

[D Sync]

The only time I do not see a roflstomp is when d r o p s h i p 5 drops against itself. Most epic matches in history.

[Darth Futuza]

LauLiao, on 28 January 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

That's always my first reaction.

"My last 27 games were ROFLStomps! This game sucks!"
"Well, I'm guessing there was ONE common factor of all 27 of those games..."

I came to learn it was actually the mech I was playing. Switch to a better mech.