41 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

RichAC, on 27 January 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

Poker is not a sport because it does not require Hand Eye Coordination, Or Muscle Memory.

I agree with that 100%!!! I LMAO when I saw the World Championship of Poker on ESPN!!!! As a competition I could agree but as a Sport... Poker has no claim!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 27 January 2014 - 09:46 AM.

[stjobe]

RichAC, on 27 January 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

Chess and poker are not a sports. Billiards is. Because once again it requires hand eye coordination and muscle memory.

Again, shooting guns is a sport also. So is Driving a car....etc..

Jeez, why don't you read a couple of the links I've provided?

Here's a choice quote from the very first link (http://en.wikipedia....port#Definition):

Quote

They [SportAccord] also recognise that sport can be primarily physical (such as rugby or athletics), primarily mind (such as chess or go), predominantly motorised (such as Formula 1 or powerboating), primarily co-ordination (such as billiard sports), or primarily animal-supported (such as equestrian sport)

Five types of sport:

• Physical
  
• Mind
  
• Motorised
  
• Co-ordination
  
• Animal-supported

Just because you don't think Chess is a sport does not mean it's not.

Edited by stjobe, 27 January 2014 - 09:47 AM.

[RichAC]

DaZur, on 27 January 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

In order for a sport to succeed it requires "all things being equal" in that no participant or team of participants are able to obtain and or bring to the field of competitive play a marked advantage that the opposing team does not have access to or prior notice of that "thing" being brought to the field of play.

In short... while individual player skillset may vary, the core mechanics / environment needs to be 100% equal.

If / When MW:O allows for matches to be hosted and that host can define the match limits therein, MW:O cannot be taken seriously as a competitive e-sport.

Well you just said it at the end there. "competitive e-sport" meaning viable. The only thing that would stop MWO from becoming a viable e-sport and more competitive then inn its presence form, is the lack of a tournament server where there is no grind and everyone has immediate access to any build or chassis they want. Like WoW's arena servers. Or Guild Wars PvP.

But Grinding is part of the fun for some people, so you always need both. It doesn't mean the guy Golfing or playing tennis with old equipment versus guys with new equipment is not a sport. It just means it can never be "Professional"

[Joseph Mallan]

stjobe, on 27 January 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

Jeez, why don't you read a couple of the links I've provided?

Here's a choice quote from the very first link (http://en.wikipedia....port#Definition):


Five types of sport:

• Physical
  
• Mind
  
• Motorised
  
• Co-ordination
  
• Animal-supported

Just because you don't think Chess is a sport does not mean it's not.

Just because one upstart group thinks of Chess as a Sport does not mean they are correct! I'm older than this group is! It is a competition but it is hardly more a sport than Sorry is!

[Bagheera]

Todd Bridges, on 26 January 2014 - 07:33 PM, said:

Sorry, there is only one sport that has EARNED my respect.

World Chess Boxing

That was 10 minutes of unmitigated awesome.

[stjobe]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 January 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

Just because one upstart group thinks of Chess as a Sport does not mean they are correct! I'm older than this group is! It is a competition but it is hardly more a sport than Sorry is!

And when you become "an umbrella organisation for all (Olympic and non-Olympic) international sports federations", you're welcome to say what is and is not a sport, you curmudgeonly old bastich!

[RichAC]

stjobe, on 27 January 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

Jeez, why don't you read a couple of the links I've provided?

Here's a choice quote from the very first link (http://en.wikipedia....port#Definition):

[size=4]
Five types of sport:

• Physical
  
• Mind
  
• Motorised
  
• Co-ordination
  
• Animal-supported

Just because you don't think Chess is a sport does not mean it's not.

I'v already disagreed with them. Did you not read my recent posts? Never heard of sportaccord, and sorry they are wrong. Doesn't mean chess is less respectable as a competitive game. But we are talking about the difference between a sport and something that is just a competitive game.

MUSCLE MEMORY, REFLEXES, HAND EYE COORDINATION. to name a few.

I mean why do they have a separate category for coordination? When everything but Chess fits into that one category? Thats suspect. Sounds like they are a great scam company. Everyone thought Enron was legit too lol Another poster just explained how they use not allow professionals to play in the Olympics.

They only need that one category coordination to define a sport imo, which umbrellas everything else except board games.

Not every pc game can be considered an "e-sport" either.

I agree that all those things require sportsmanship. But then again I'd also have to disagree that poker doesn't, even though it has a degree of luck.

Edited by RichAC, 27 January 2014 - 10:08 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

stjobe, on 27 January 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

And when you become "an umbrella organisation for all (Olympic and non-Olympic) international sports federations", you're welcome to say what is and is not a sport, you curmudgeonly old bastich!

Why the heck do I need to wait for someone else to tell me what I can and can't say Sir?I know I didn't give that bunch of upstarts the right to dictate to me what's what!

[Prezimonto]

stjobe, on 27 January 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

Broaden your mind, little Trauglodyte, broaden your mind - who knows, you might even learn to appreciate something new!

He is a Trauglodyte... I'm not sure how much you can expect.

Trauglodyte, on 27 January 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

But, I like things in my nice lil circle If I broaden my horizons, all manners of things might happen. Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together. MASS HYSTERIA!!!

The Ghostbusters quote deserves the like, even if I disagree.

[stjobe]

RichAC, on 27 January 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

I'v already disagreed with them.

That much is plain.

RichAC, on 27 January 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

Never heard of sportaccord, and sorry they are wrong.

Sure, but RichAC, the anonymous Internet poster, he's right. Don't listen to what the umbrella organization of international sports federations says, RichAC hasn't heard of them so they can't be right!

[Trauglodyte]

Bagheera, on 27 January 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

Traug, spend a 4 hour shift in any class of car during an endurance race and then come back here to tell us how there is no physical effort or skill involved and how motorsports are not a Sport.

I won't deny the concept of endurance in that. BUT, nobody is physically preventing you from getting in the car or impeding your progress while driving the car. It is really just you, the vehicle and the track. It requires some twitch skills but not to the same end as an actual sports athlete where hand-eye coordination, reflexes, speed, strength, and endurance are needed. This is where I always get into the arguement with people. Nobody is preventing you from doing anything in racing (of any type). If you had to hit that 9 iron shot down the fairway while having someone push on you or with someone trying to block it, or you were trying to hit a moving target that someone on your team was carrying, then I'd change my mind. Its mostly semantics for me but anything involving cars is really out for me.

[Mystere]

RichAC, on 27 January 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

I mean why do they have a seperate category for coordination?

Can you say curling?

[RichAC]

stjobe, on 27 January 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

That much is plain.


Sure, but RichAC, the anonymous Internet poster, he's right. Don't listen to what the umbrella organization of international sports federations says, RichAC hasn't heard of them so they can't be right!

People thought Enron was legit too bro.

The Olympics don't get as much respect anymore. I mean one poster already explained, I dunno if in this thread, how the olympics use to not allow professionals to play for obvious reasons. Now they are only about money. Sorry dude.

The Nobel Foundation gets no respect anymore either.

Mystere, on 27 January 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:

Can you say curling?

You still need to be coordinated or you will fall on your *** haha. Or worse, break your back. But ya thats an athletic sport.

Trauglodyte, on 27 January 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:

I won't deny the concept of endurance in that. BUT, nobody is physically preventing you from getting in the car or impeding your progress while driving the car. It is really just you, the vehicle and the track. It requires some twitch skills but not to the same end as an actual sports athlete where hand-eye coordination, reflexes, speed, strength, and endurance are needed. This is where I always get into the arguement with people. Nobody is preventing you from doing anything in racing (of any type). If you had to hit that 9 iron shot down the fairway while having someone push on you or with someone trying to block it, or you were trying to hit a moving target that someone on your team was carrying, then I'd change my mind. Its mostly semantics for me but anything involving cars is really out for me.

Are you trying to say driving does not require hand eye coordination? umm.....crawl back in your cave? hahah

Oh I see you think unless its at least two players on the field at the same time interacting with each other then its not a sport. I disagree. They can still be competing for higher scores separately.

But on second though, I'm still confused why you would bring up race car driving, when there is so many cars on the same race track interfering with each other? Have you discovered the wheel yet?

Edited by RichAC, 27 January 2014 - 10:13 AM.

[Mystere]

RichAC, on 27 January 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

You still need to coordinated or you will fall on your *** haha. But ya thats an athletic sport.

Ahem! That was my point. You need coordination in curling.

[stjobe]

Trauglodyte, on 27 January 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:

It requires some twitch skills but not to the same end as an actual sports athlete where hand-eye coordination, reflexes, speed, strength, and endurance are needed.

Spoken like someone who's never driven a high-performance car in their life, much less a F1 car (not that I've driven a F1 car either, but still).

Here's some fun facts:
Cornering, you're subjected to up to 5.5 Gs in a F1 car. 1.5 Gs while accelerating, and up to 4 Gs while braking.
The heart beat of a F1 driver is between 150-180 during the whole race, and peaks even higher.
A race is 305 km (usually about 60 laps) and takes roughly an hour from start to finish.

If you don't have "hand-eye coordination, reflexes, speed, strength, and endurance" you will NOT win any races in ANY motorsport.

Edit: Duh, we dun got moved to off-topic. Well, that's that then, was fun while it lasted

Edited by stjobe, 27 January 2014 - 10:15 AM.

[RichAC]

stjobe, on 27 January 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

Jeez, why don't you read a couple of the links I've provided?

Here's a choice quote from the very first link (http://en.wikipedia....port#Definition):

Here is the first sentence in the definition "The precise definition of what separates a sport from other leisure activities varies between sources"

Varies between sources friend. Which means its up for debate.

The only organization they can quote, is one I can guarantee you has money interests. Which they say is "The closest to an international agreement" "The Closest" again implying its up for debate.

Sportaccord made those bogus categories, when one category, COORDINATION, obviously encompasses all the rest except one, except games that don't require any coordination, when every other category on the list does, Because they want to include as many games as they can for more profits.

If you tell me they're a non profit, I'm gonna tell you how many people make money off the olympics.

This does not take any respect away from chess at all, But again we are debating what determines a competitive game, from a competitive sport.

What we can agree on is that they all require sportsmanship, and contrary to what sportaccord thinks, so does poker.

Edited by RichAC, 27 January 2014 - 10:28 AM.

[Krujiente]

Competitive gaming is a sport in a sense, does it deserve respect that a real sports-player deserves? Not really. Actual sports are very taxing and damaging to the body even golf destroyed your elbow. What you gonna get from e sports? Carpal tunnel maybe. And you're not a professional gamer unless you're sponsors and paid. That's like saying playing pick up games at neighborhood court means you're a professional basketball player. Professional implies profession, profession implies its how you make your livelihood. No if you're playing MWO "professionally" what you have is an obsessive hobby that devours money like I devour buffalo wings. There are people that get sponsored to play Counter Strikes and fighting games(closest thing that I have seen to a competitive-level game) and CoD(hah) and the Mobas(gross) but not MWO that I am aware of, there's just no market for it.

[Bagheera]

Trauglodyte, on 27 January 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:

I won't deny the concept of endurance in that. BUT, nobody is physically preventing you from getting in the car or impeding your progress while driving the car. It is really just you, the vehicle and the track. It requires some twitch skills but not to the same end as an actual sports athlete where hand-eye coordination, reflexes, speed, strength, and endurance are needed. This is where I always get into the arguement with people. Nobody is preventing you from doing anything in racing (of any type). If you had to hit that 9 iron shot down the fairway while having someone push on you or with someone trying to block it, or you were trying to hit a moving target that someone on your team was carrying, then I'd change my mind. Its mostly semantics for me but anything involving cars is really out for me.

That's too bad, because LM racing is really only one example I could bust out. Regarding what it requires physically, let me ask you this: have you ever actually driven a car with absolutely 0 power assist on any of the systems? No power breaks, no power steering. There are plenty of motorsports classes where this is the case. The amount of arm strength needed to keep an open wheel racer like this on the track over the entire course of a race is grossly underestimated by people who have only ever driven power assist cars. The clutch on cars like this can be like trying to pump the hydraulics of a dump truck with just your left foot. The idea that there is no physical strength involved in motor racing is, sorry to say, patently false. Reflex, Hand-eye, and Endurance are already well established requirements.

Furthermore, unless you are racing WRC, NHRA, or other time trial style events you are most definitely in direct competition with other drivers who are trying to stop you, pass you, lock you out, and essentially impede your progress. That finesse is required over brute force is notwithstanding as there are non-motorsport examples of finesse over force games as well.

I'll never understand the mentality of "my sport is superior to yours because X Y and Z." Especially in groups like this where obviously none of us are competitors at any level in any of them. I may think American football is silly and annoying, but I'm not going to sit here and try to belittle their athletic ability because of my personal preference. *shrug*

[RichAC]

stjobe, on 27 January 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

If you don't have "hand-eye coordination, reflexes, speed, strength, and endurance" you will NOT win any races in ANY motorsport.

Edit: Duh, we dun got moved to off-topic. Well, that's that then, was fun while it lasted

According to your sportaccord link, you don't need any of those things to be a sport. Which I disagree with. Do you also now too?
hahah

and we are right on topic.

Edit: Oh and don't forget muscle memory.

MWO has 3 of these things. Hand-eye coordination, reflexes, and muscle memory. SO imo, its a sport. Not an athletic sport, but a sport none the less. an "e-sport" only because its on the internet.

But a sport closer to shooting guns and driving cars.

Edited by RichAC, 27 January 2014 - 10:39 AM.

[RichAC]

Krujiente, on 27 January 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

Competitive gaming is a sport in a sense, does it deserve respect that a real sports-player deserves? Not really. Actual sports are very taxing and damaging to the body even golf destroyed your elbow. What you gonna get from e sports? Carpal tunnel maybe. And you're not a professional gamer unless you're sponsors and paid. That's like saying playing pick up games at neighborhood court means you're a professional basketball player. Professional implies profession, profession implies its how you make your livelihood. No if you're playing MWO "professionally" what you have is an obsessive hobby that devours money like I devour buffalo wings. There are people that get sponsored to play Counter Strikes and fighting games(closest thing that I have seen to a competitive-level game) and CoD(hah) and the Mobas(gross) but not MWO that I am aware of, there's just no market for it.

So what your basically saying is you don't respect MWO, well thats not surprising. That mentality is why most pc games are not popular in the first place, and why so many people cheat and exploit them without guilt. It shows a lack of sports sense and sportsmanship.

I assume your not implying its only a sport if people could make money on it? And so what your saying is you would only respect the game and players if people were playing it professionally. Well what a paradox that is with people like you playing it.

OH btw I wouldn't wish carpal tunnel on anyone. lol

Edited by RichAC, 27 January 2014 - 05:07 PM.