147 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Krujiente, on 28 January 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

I don't hate pop-tarts, some mechs are pretty much made to pop-tart. Take the BJ-1 and 3: great mechs, designed for jumping to high places and popping off rounds, sometimes to deal with the fact you're 45 tons and usually pretty slow for a medium sometimes pop-tarting would be a necessary thing. The Urban mech if it was in the game would be pop-tartastic at times, that small profile and that big gun along with a slow movement speed does not make for a fun time in the open. That said: all these mechs suffer compared to larger pop-tarts because all those pop-tarts have GIANT arms that can block damage. Its very dangerous to load an XL engine into something that has no arms, just guns while Victors (which for table top purposes are using their jumpjets to get close and unload the brawl-pocolypse out of nowhere, not use the jumpjets to cower behind cover and pop off huge chunks of hate) do it constantly because they can turn on a dime using their JJs to block damage on their arms. This helps them prevent damage to their XL while in a brawl while still letting them be very effective pop-tarts. I do hope if they make any changes to discourage pop-tarting it doesn't hurt the blackjack or anything else with swivel arms that can't take MAXIMUM effectiveness of giant arms, huge guns and quick swiveling to not only avoid damage at long range, but absorb it at close range

This is how combat pretty much works. Combatants hide behind cover wait for a break in the enemy fire, pop up take some rapid shots at anything not concealed, and duck back before the enemy starts firing again. So what you are calling cowering is standard practice.

Now if YOU want to hang out in front of 4-7 enemy Mechs while they are shooting at you. Please be on the other team

[TygerLily]

Reitrix, on 29 January 2014 - 12:29 AM, said:

So ... Learn to turn your shoulder (The big shoulder pad, not your RT/LT) to the poptart ridgeline?
Seriously, at roughly 4 - 6 seconds between shots ... You have around, oh i dunno 16 - 24 seconds to find cover?

... I think i find your problem.

This is a fantastical scenario I presented. Just as I'd never have 0 armor in my rear CT, I'd obviously roll damage in a real game. Don't miss the forest for the trees, man. My point is to show how high the reward is vs the risk.

Rolling damage brings up a good point though. The most effective way to deliver all your damage and roll your own damage would be to have a weapon that delivers all at once....where have I see that before?? /endsarcasm ...here we are at the meta.

Again, I don't want it gone or nerfed beyond usefulness...just balanced!

Edited by TygerLily, 29 January 2014 - 04:52 AM.

[PYR0MANCER]

The issue for me isn't poptarting... It's assaults poptarting, and with ease...


Make the rate of climb even slower the higher your tonnage goes but give them more fuel so they can reach the same height they are supposed to, and definately make sure that the rate of climb and height are heavily affected by using less than the maximum number of jets...


Again, just make the rate of climb slower and slower the more tonnage your mech is... Yes, even more so than now... Who cares what the 'synchdropping roflstomping I'm so good I'm the best this game has ever seen' say...


Plain an simple an assault should not be a viable poptarter for the sake of game balance... Period...

[Joseph Mallan]

Pop tarts need to take damage to their legs if they let themselves free fall. A Mech on TT took (tonnage/10)* # of elevations fell.

A Spider 8 lvls high (3)*8=24 damage divided between both legs!

A Highlander 4 lvls high (9)*4=36 damage divided between both legs!

[MeiSooHaityu]

I had this idea in another thread. Not sure if it is the greatest idea, but I do believe it would curb the poptart tendancy if people still feel it is a huge issue...

Quote

Well, JJs could have limited fuel similar to Mechwarrior 2. Once the fuel is gone, it is gone for the rest of the match.

The amount of fuel used for a jump could be dependant on the tonnage of the mech. Assault mechs might only be able to jump about 5 or 6 times a match, where as a light might be able to jump closer to 20 times. Heavy and Medium mechs could be somewhere in the middle.

The lighter mechs that rely on JJs more for survivability would be able to jump more on a fuel load (due to being lighter) than a heavier mech. This way the JJ nerf (which it is) would not effect lighter mechs as much, but would effect the heavier mechs more (which tend to use it for poptarting anyway).

If you want to jump snipe in an Assault or Heavy, it wouldn't be sustainable the entire match. A mech would still have enough fuel to use JJs to reach higher terrain and maintain manuverability, but the heavier mechs would have to make a decision whether they want to use the fuel for manuverability or sniping.

Heck, they could even create a module for additional jump fuel that might get you a couple more jumps, but would be used up similar to cool shot.

Sounds like it could be a descent idea. The amount of jumps per fuel load could be tweaked for balancing, but overall it might curb the jump sniping a bit and not impact the light mechs who use it for their ability to avoid shots and damage.

[Joseph Mallan]

Your idea isn't Canon, but it could work!

[Kyynele]

I think the main problem with assault poptarting is that it's a very low risk - high reward tactic. You can be as effective in various other ways, but exposing yourself for a couple seconds for one pinpoint alpha in an assault that can easily tank a ton of hits is as safe as it gets.

I don't really mind poptarting in general, although I do find it incredibly boring to play. However, it's tiring to play matches with premades full of assault poptarts. This will obviously get better with weight restrictions in April, when at least a couple mechs in those premades will be easy, fast kills, and won't mess the matchmaker as badly as they do now. Interesting to see who in the more competitive teams gets to play the mech that often dies and who gets to keep assault poptarting.

[wanderer]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 28 January 2014 - 11:03 PM, said:

advantage of taking 1 jumpjet - huge mobility increase. ability to pop-tart, etc etc.

disadvantages - .5-2 ton commitment

This is about the same disadvantage vs. advantage as ECM, and we see how that goes.

[Joseph Mallan]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 28 January 2014 - 11:03 PM, said:

advantage of taking 1 jumpjet - huge mobility increase. ability to pop-tart, etc etc.

disadvantages - .5-2 ton commitment

One Jump Jet should have negligible effect. 15m of jump is not a lot of agility!

[wanderer]

SilentWolff, on 28 January 2014 - 08:55 PM, said:

All I see is QQ. There will always be a meta and there will always be no skill hacks that will come in here and cry about whatever that new meta is.

New meta? Frag that, this dates back to the -previous MW game- now that we have all the components in place.

3PV? Check. Accurate jump shots? Check. Good frontloaded weapons layouts? Check. This is old meta, so old people were altering the servers just to get rid of the derp in MW4 (but can't here).

Quote

As opposed to locking on with missles, or laying Arty strikes? If its so easy and isnt a challenge, why cant you do it?

Last I checked, my Ilya can't equip jump jets. Nor that Battlemaster I'm skilling up. Should a 'Mech be considered grossly inferior for lack of a pogo stick?

Also, locking a target with LRMs? Easy. Now, actually hit them effectively. Please. Start with that Jenner on the other side of cover running full-out or the hill humper in 90% cover. Not as easy now, is it?

[DaZur]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 January 2014 - 06:43 AM, said:

Pop tarts need to take damage to their legs if they let themselves free fall. A Mech on TT took (tonnage/10)* # of elevations fell.

A Spider 8 lvls high (3)*8=24 damage divided between both legs!

A Highlander 4 lvls high (9)*4=36 damage divided between both legs!

Oh... but that'd require a modicum of piloting skill and as it's been clearly demonstrated as of late... anything that increases the difficult level in game play mechanics must be abolished and never spoken of again..

[Joseph Mallan]

Which is why I keep speaking of it.

[Mudhutwarrior]

All I know is whenever we have these threads I start to see a lot of low skill pugs die trying to make pop tarting work for them.. Had a pug match with four of them side my side missing most every shot. My pals Arty and Air took care of that.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 29 January 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

All I know is whenever we have these threads I start to see a lot of low skill pugs die trying to make pop tarting work for them.. Had a pug match with four of them side my side missing most every shot. My pals Arty and Air took care of that.

It takes some practice to get the hang of Pop Tarting. I ha some success with Missile boating that way... but once the enemy was able to actually move I was shown how I needed more live fire practice to get things to work better

So I gave up the Pop Tart training.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 January 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

It takes some practice to get the hang of Pop Tarting. I ha some success with Missile boating that way... but once the enemy was able to actually move I was shown how I needed more live fire practice to get things to work better

So I gave up the Pop Tart training.

well I am noticing half my arty and airstikes land no where near where I put them. Dropped two this last match and both were 90 degrees to my side and aimpoint. Something is screwy.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 29 January 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

well I am noticing half my arty and airstikes land no where near where I put them. Dropped two this last match and both were 90 degrees to my side and aimpoint. Something is screwy.

Sounds like the Arty jokes I remember from my service days!

[TygerLily]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 January 2014 - 06:43 AM, said:

Pop tarts need to take damage to their legs if they let themselves free fall. A Mech on TT took (tonnage/10)* # of elevations fell.

A Spider 8 lvls high (3)*8=24 damage divided between both legs!

A Highlander 4 lvls high (9)*4=36 damage divided between both legs!

DaZur, on 29 January 2014 - 07:17 AM, said:

Oh... but that'd require a modicum of piloting skill and as it's been clearly demonstrated as of late... anything that increases the difficult level in game play mechanics must be abolished and never spoken of again..

Oh, I think I'm motion sick...

Edited by TygerLily, 29 January 2014 - 08:18 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

TygerLily, on 29 January 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

Oh, I think I'm motion sick...

Something for your suffering,

[Mudhutwarrior]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 January 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

Sounds like the Arty jokes I remember from my service days!

I made a post in Meta about it. Wondering if anyone else is seeing that. Been using them quite a while now never had such problems.

[Joseph Mallan]

Well According to "that other game" Art gets more accurate with each shot... Maybe PGI is trying something new?