70 replies to this topic

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Roland, on 28 January 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

4 lances vs. 4 lances would be 16 v 16, dude.

I ment 3 v 3... you got the point... way to be super focused on my wording.

[Ryoken]

wanderer, on 29 January 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

Premades can and do carry PUG matches, and do alter the W/L ratio of solo players dropping with them in the process, and do pervert the ELO rankings in the process.

That is plain wrong! As solo players get a fresh set of players in their team and the enemy team each time they drop alone, premades absolutely do not alter W/L ratio of solo players.

[Gallowglas]

I think some of you are looking back on 8v8 with imperfect memories. With 12v12 you at least occasionally see mechs in different parts of the map. With 8v8 it was ALWAYS nothing more than each team massing in one spot. I'm sorry if I never, ever want to go back to that without specific game modes to allow me to skip it if I want.

[wanderer]

Quote

That is plain wrong! As solo players get a fresh set of players in their team and the enemy team each time they drop alone, premades absolutely do not alter W/L ratio of solo players.

You get a premade with you. They stomp the other side where you would have lost otherwise. Your W/L is up one.

You get a premade against you. They don't use lube. Your W/L is down by one

Premades increase your odds of winning. Even if you're not in the premade, you benefit even if you do nothing but make an easy target long enough for the premade to shoot while you spun in circles trying to hit that Locust at 30m with LRMs- and the premade team used you as a disposable meat shield. You did 3 damage for the round. The premade averaged 500- each. Your side gets a win because you got carried, even though you were a useless pile of scrap.

[Magna Canus]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 January 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

Why would we want to always play with a bunch of random people? As a team, we play alongside each other over and over again to where we can be discussing the finer points of German v Canadian Beers, **** and sometimes call targets if they need focused on.

Damn, why do you people from Law always make such good sense.
Anyways, I agree here as well. Being social on your game day is a lot better than going solo. German beer is better by far than Canadian by the way. I live in Germany so I know.

I drop solo to "Keep my ELO real", e.g. try to balance out the artificial inflation that dropping in a group does to my "actual skill level". I also drop with my unit, and I regularly form up groups with not affiliated solo's on the public TS servers, especially if somebody asks for help in game. I really would not be playing an online team game if I 1) Just wanted to play by/for myself and 2) Was not interested in going beyond "random human" to "I know this player and drop with them because I like to".

I really see no point in playing MWO if I were not interested in the human aspect of the game.

[TehSBGX]

I miss 8 mans too. But hopefully it'll be an option if we ever get private matches. :/

[Ryoken]

wanderer, on 29 January 2014 - 04:50 PM, said:

You get a premade with you. They stomp the other side where you would have lost otherwise. Your W/L is up one.

You get a premade against you. They don't use lube. Your W/L is down by one

Premades increase your odds of winning. Even if you're not in the premade, you benefit even if you do nothing but make an easy target long enough for the premade to shoot while you spun in circles trying to hit that Locust at 30m with LRMs- and the premade team used you as a disposable meat shield. You did 3 damage for the round. The premade averaged 500- each. Your side gets a win because you got carried, even though you were a useless pile of scrap.

You absolutely miss the point that what you described above does not alter your winrate. It still is a 50/50 chance of winning or loosing the game. As you can not choose the players you are teamed up with and against if you drop alone it is like flipping a coin. Beeing 1/12th of the teames gives you an insignificant impact on the outcome. This is why single dropping players will hardly exceed w/l ratios of 45 to 55%. It does absolutely not matter if those other players are allowed to form teams or not. So deal with it.

Edited by Ryoken, 30 January 2014 - 12:31 AM.

[Magna Canus]

Mcchuggernaut, on 29 January 2014 - 07:17 AM, said:

When a full third of your team is fighting as a coordinated (and in your case I'm pretty sure experienced, with finely-tuned and effective mechs) unit with a plan, the teamwork will of course grant you a huge reward, or at the very least make you a formidable force much less likely to fail. That being said, most of the people who play don't have people to drop with, and the difficulty of communicating easily (typing in the heat of battle is a good way to get killed) using the game's built-in methods is a chore and a liability, which discourages easily forming a cooperating group from the random people you encounter while playing. This game needs built-in voice communication within a lance like a starving man needs food.

All the more reason to join a unit and find those guys to drop with. You also solve your issues by using TS with them which is a lot better than waiting for PGI/IGP to impliment VOIP. I have mixed feelings about in-game VOIP anyways if we dont get an ignore option for trolls and QQ-masters.

I'm not sure why some people resist joining a unit so vehemently, especially when there are enough units out there that advertise themselves as casual and mature. It's not like you are then married for life or something either. Just like in the real world, if you dont like your group let them know and switch. You can go the long road of tears and frustration, waiting for the mystical holy grail (VOIP) to be handed down by God (PGI/IGP) or you can be smart and find your own solution.

Which is now where I throw in the pitch that if you are looking for a mature, mixed Casual/Serious, Davion group that I advise you to drop by our site and become a Golden Fox.

http://www.darkjedi.org/club/FOX/

[Peiper]

It would be nice to have 4 v 4, 8 v 8 and 12 v 12 matches, and if you drop with 8 or 4, you have the chance to get them. They could be related to map size too. So, the small maps like River City, which shouldn't be more than 4 v 4 anyway COULD actually be 4 v 4. This could help with matchmaker too, at times.

[wanderer]

Quote

You absolutely miss the point that what you described above does not alter your winrate. It still is a 50/50 chance of winning or loosing the game. As you can not choose the players you are teamed up with and against if you drop alone it is like flipping a coin. Beeing 1/12th of the teames gives you an insignificant impact on the outcome. This is why single dropping players will hardly exceed w/l ratios of 45 to 55%. It does absolutely not matter if those other players are allowed to form teams or not. So deal with it.

...yes, except that -when- you have that premade with you, your odds of -that- game are altered.

Seriously, try it sometime. Any game you get a premade in? Follow them. Fight what they're fighting. Your odds of winning go up considerably, as a 4-man can carry...and a 4-man with a PUG or two that can read what's going on carries even better. You're correct that you can't choose when you'll end up with a premade...but the games that you DO, your odds of a win are higher. 50/50 when one side even has a single organized lance is meadow muffins- the very ability to communicate and work together means the premade's ELO is effectively higher than what the matchmaker sets it at. Teamwork with a premade lance means you're not 1/12...you're 5/12 at least.
That is, your odds with a premade are better than 50/50, meaning a premade generally has a positive mark on your W/L ratio as well. If random chance feeds you a series of sync drops or premades in your teams, you will end up with a better W/L than you would have otherwise- to a lesser extent, your ELO is also inflated as well.

In the long run, it tends to even out...but one should see a game with a premade as points where your rating will improve,not decrease.

[Joseph Mallan]

Yes Wanderer better team work and cooperation will alter the probability of success. I followed a light lance with a streaktaro (3 SSRMs 4 mediums) Had the best game ever in a medium. Teamwork really helps, even if you don't have Comms!