81 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

@OP

It's PGI's master plan. DHS 1.4 and Heat Scale. But even before Heat Scale and ERPPCs being restored to 15 heat the AWS-9M stock shutdown too often to be competitive with 3xERPPCs.

I have tried to explain that 3xERPPCs is a moderate energy build, no where near the Supernova stock versions of 6xER Large or 4xERPPCs. Just to warn that the AWS-9M has to work pretty well for MWO to continue to use Battletech as the source material for MWO's loadouts. PGI can't seem to balance this into the game though and I think they gave up. I would not be happy with DHS 1.4 and Ghost heat if I were them. I would be looking for an actual fix to why MWO's mechs are destroyed so fast under fire. That's why Energy was nerfed so heavily. The best restriction for energy though is a hard heat cap where the mech explodes over a certain point.

Also, alot of players whined about PPCs and now they are whining about something else.

Mechs carry lots of weapons and PGI is having a hard time making this work. Most of their recent nerfs have been aimed at not allowing mechs to fire all their weapons. In essence allowing the players to load weapons, but not giving them the time/ability to fire them. Like you said about the ERPPCs and only being able to fire one with 20 DHS... sad, but true.

Anyway, I also have an AWS-9M parked in a mech hanger, waiting for the day PGI makes it work again. It doesn't work, PGI.

Edited by Lightfoot, 29 January 2014 - 03:59 PM.

[LordBraxton]

The 9M used to be able to wreck in pug matches, back when SRMs did 2.5 damage.

SRMs never ever needed a nerf and it is ridiculous that they haven't been buffed more already.

I used to run

LL
3Mlas
2srm4
srm6

and got insane damage, but this was over a year ago.

Now the only viable build I have found is

2PPCs
2Mlas
3Streaks

put the PPCs in RA\RT and lean around corners with your right side

at 250m you have insane damage (if you are hiding behind highlanders\atlai to take hits)

3 streaks and 2mlas will scare almost every light away from your m8s

It will never be competitive though

[FupDup]

Black Arachne, on 29 January 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

See, that doesn't make sense. You can't make weapons fire faster and not speed up heat dissipation.

Also, if ERPPC's are nearly un-useable what are the devs plan on addressing these problems? I was planning buying the clan pack for the Warhawk but as it stands now that mech would just explode the moment it entered the game, and until I see something that makes sense there is no way in hell I'm forking over that kind of money,

The Warhawk nearly explodes as it is in TableTop, in MWO it would melt your computer just by looking at it in your mechbay. What makes it worse is that PGI is planning to nerf Clan tech, and one of their planned nerfs is to increase their heat generation.

[Black Arachne]

FupDup, on 29 January 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

The Warhawk nearly explodes as it is in TableTop, in MWO it would melt your computer just by looking at it in your mechbay. What makes it worse is that PGI is planning to nerf Clan tech, and one of their planned nerfs is to increase their heat generation.

Seriously...

The game can't even handle the use of 2 ERPPC's atm - and they are going to increase heat on them. I'm glad I held off on buying the premium now and clan pack is definitely a no purchase. Hopefully, I can make this mech work with the regular ppcs, and I'll try out the large pulses but I just have a bad feeling that I wasted my time saving up for the Awesome.

Edited by Black Arachne, 29 January 2014 - 04:32 PM.

[Jez]

For anyone considering to get the -9M...DON'T DO IT!!!!

It has been superseded by the Battlemaster-1G which has:

1. Superior hardpoint placement in the upper side torsos which is a huge advantage over the 9M where the hardpoints are at waist level.
2. Smaller profile (slimmer and therefore harder to hit)
3. Better survivability with an XL engine
4. 2 ballistic hardpoints in the arm (the 9M has none) which is preferable over the SRM slots on the 9M post SRM nerf.

There is no functional role that the 9M can perform where the BLR-1G can't perform it better. Avoid the entire Awesome line until PGI decides to do something about it.

[Khobai]

Quote

What makes it worse is that PGI is planning to nerf Clan tech, and one of their planned nerfs is to increase their heat generation.

Well to be fair clan DHS are two crit slots instead of three. They have to make clan weapons generate more heat to offset the fact clan mechs can have way more DHS.

The only other option wouldve been to rebuild the entire heat system from scratch, but when has PGI ever chosen the better of two options?

[Molossian Dog]

@Black Arachne

Sadly you are the victim of a company trying to fix a broken mechanic. And not explaining the mechanic to new players or even providing exhaustive tutorials.

Yes the stock AWS-9M is never going to work. Any stock Mech is worthless by definition. And as all Mechs are more or less OmniMechs, as a new player you are thrown into an enviroment with highly optimized builds catering to the latest nerf/buff round of which you naturally know little.

That being said the -9M can still be made into a good Mech. Just don´t expect it to have the zombie quality you know from the tabletop. The devs didn´t really put much effort into fullfilling its reputation or just didn´t think about several factors. Like the barn wide shilhoutte, the protruding chestpiece that lets people hit your CT from almost any angle, hardpoint placement and size scaling in general.

Being a TT enthusiast myself I can understand how it is, but you have no choice but to abandon your expectation that Mechs are going to have the feel they "should" have. I´m sorry.

The result? Fewer people are going to throw money at this game. Sad fact.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 29 January 2014 - 04:41 PM.

[FupDup]

Black Arachne, on 29 January 2014 - 04:31 PM, said:

Seriously...

The game can't even handle the use of 2 ERPPC's atm - and they are going to increase heat on them. I'm glad I held off on buying the premium now and clan pack is definitely a no purchase. Hopefully, I can make this mech work with the regular ppcs, and I'll try out the large pulses but I just have a bad feeling that I wasted my time saving up for the Awesome.

Large Pulse Lasers are a fairly "meh" weapon. They don't do enough damage to justify their weight and heat increases, or range reduction. Large Lasers as a much better choice in almost all situations.

As for your bad feeling...well, you're right. The Awesome has issues for multiple reasons:
A. A fairly low engine limit gives most variants lackluster mobility (excludes 9M and PB, although the PB has other issues...)
B. Bad hitboxes make it easier to destroy than most other mechs (i.e. big CT, barn-door body shape)
C. Slow heat dissipation hampers the mech's ability to use large numbers of energy weapons in prolonged fights, particularly brawls


The sad truth is that the AWS has been labeled as a bad chassis for a long time, and is commonly used as the posterboy of underpowered mechs in MWO. You can still kill stuff with the AWS of course, and you can still top the charts if you get good enough, but you'll need to put in a lot more effort than your peers who are driving better mechs and you won't have much room for error.

Edited by FupDup, 29 January 2014 - 04:41 PM.

[cSand]

All of you sitting here playing the victim, instead of adapting and learning to use things as they are now.
None of you will enjoy this game, no matter how they change it, cause there is always something new to QQ about.

Edited by cSand, 29 January 2014 - 04:49 PM.

[Molossian Dog]

Oh my...

Addendum: You edited and removed the cuss words from your post? Cute.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 30 January 2014 - 03:46 AM.

[Flagrant]

Put PPCs on the ****. ErPpc on the right arm. Srm4s on left arm and balls. Ppcs in one weapon group, this is your main attack. Erppc second weapons group and srms on third weapon group. Use the Ppcs as much as possible with erppc for super far or ssrms for brawling range. Use XL engine.

[wanderer]

Heat design for MWO is a lot closer to what they had for Solaris- where ballistics were dominant, as effective multipliers to heat load are nastier for weapons that generated more heat to begin with.

And ER PPC's are the top of the "hot" chain. While you can stagger-fire a -9M over 10 seconds, alpha striking will burn it extra crispy in a hurry- especially one that doesn't have basic piloting boosts like cool run. And you want rate of fire.

To give you an idea, it used to be a popular choice to make -9M's into MEDIUM LASER/STREAK boats. You could spread the heat love and keep firing.

Personally? You can go with dual PPC's + ER PPC...but chain fire them instead of firing them all at once. If you hit the backspace key on a weapons group, the number will start to flash. Now, it'll fire all the guns in the group one at a time instead of all at once.

So *click* PPC, *click* 2nd PPC, *click* ER PPC, for example. That'll help manage things a bit. Or put the ER PPC on another fire button. Just don't fire em all together at once!

[Deathlike]

cSand, on 29 January 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

All of you sitting here playing the victim, instead of adapting and learning to use things as they are now.
None of you will enjoy this game, no matter how they change it, cause there is always something new to QQ about.

Yes, blame everyone being helpful for explaining how the game works and giving solutions.

That's very productive. So, one day when PGI does something you don't like, just accept your fate.

I mean, Flamers... the best weapon to make you overheat than your target.

[Mycrus]

Xl385
3 ppc
Ssrms+bap
Ams

I've mastered the entire awesome lineup and they are fun to run.

[Black Arachne]

So tried Pulses - they run hot but not affected by ghost heat which proves what people are saying are bout the heat system. It just can't keep up with energy due to the low dissipation. So why aren't DHS in MWO using the same formula as in TT? Why was it limited to the engine only?

Should have enough to buy the PPC's in a few - I'm just hoping that they just don't allow for a couple of more seconds of firing only. My mech is getting ripped apart from AC's faster then I can return fire - half the time I can't fire back or Ill shut down. Yet, they keep on going with no end in sight.

[Asmudius Heng]

Jez, on 29 January 2014 - 04:34 PM, said:

For anyone considering to get the -9M...DON'T DO IT!!!!

It has been superseded by the Battlemaster-1G which has:

1. Superior hardpoint placement in the upper side torsos which is a huge advantage over the 9M where the hardpoints are at waist level.
2. Smaller profile (slimmer and therefore harder to hit)
3. Better survivability with an XL engine
4. 2 ballistic hardpoints in the arm (the 9M has none) which is preferable over the SRM slots on the 9M post SRM nerf.

There is no functional role that the 9M can perform where the BLR-1G can't perform it better. Avoid the entire Awesome line until PGI decides to do something about it.

Pretty much spot on - the more mechs that get released the more some mechs will fade into the background until each chassis has something more unique about it.

I think PGI believes that changes to modules and weapon teirs etc will do this but I really dont think they will matter.

The CORE functionality of each mech has to be different enough from others near its weight to make them viable un general, or even in a niche role.

The Awesome has no niche, and nothing to recommend it over many other assault or high end heavy mechs which is a damned shame.

It is suppose to be a PPC slinger ... if PPCs cannot be changed then make that CHASSIS have an advantage to using PPCs instead or energy weapons in general.

Quirks for all chassis plz

[Weaselball]

ITT: OP makes a new account to post on the forums complaining about ghost heat whilst disguising it as a new player's confusion at the system. Many people seem to fall for it. OP is successful.

[Deathlike]

Weaselball, on 29 January 2014 - 06:44 PM, said:

ITT: OP makes a new account to post on the forums complaining about ghost heat whilst disguising it as a new player's confusion at the system. Many people seem to fall for it. OP is successful.

Whether or not that's true, the result would've been the same. One group tries to help. Another group tries to downplay everything. Words exchanged... we're still back to square one.

What do you think is a more productive solution? Assume everyone in this situation is trolling?

[lsp]

You're going to regret wasting your hard earned cbills or real money on a awesome. VTR-9s, 733c or ddc.

[wanderer]

The other thing is, don't try and match an autocannon shot for shot in terms of firepower. Lighter AC's (2, 5, Ultra-5) will get off more (sometimes multiple) shots for each PPC bolt you throw down the line. Hug cover, snap off a barrage of PPC bolts 1-2-3, then duck back behind cover while you cool and the PPC's are back online. You can hit things with even a standard PPC at quite some range (use the Z key to zoom in a bit, and there's a module later that's even better for sniping with PPC's that gives you a 4x view). If an AC is a machine gun, a PPC is a bolt-action riflle. Boom. *breathe and adjust* Boom. *breathe and adjust* Boom. That PPC bolt will actually reach into the 1K range and inflict some damage, if not full. ER LL's will reach to about 1300m, ER PPC's to 1600m before losing any effectiveness. If you like PPC's, play the range game, learn to use cover spots to rattle off salvos and then get back behind to cool down, if needed.

Play around with the energy weapon "big guns" as you get the chance and find where your comfort zone is rangewise. If PPC bolts don't feel comfortable, try an ER LL in it's place and a few heat sinks. It's got reach and even if you partially miss, you'll be able to adjust over the "burn" and still get some damage in. Pulses hit harder and briefer but are infighting weapons, more for point defense than slapping targets at range. Even a LPL will lose it's punch completely about where a standard PPC is just barely outside it's best range. Standard lasers are...well, the standard. A normal large laser won't snipe super good, but it'll burn things out to 900m and if you're not playing the long game will make a good impression on a target.

And if you feel like you -really- want to play the long game, you can replace those Streaks with LRM racks- but be warned. The tubes on an Awesome mean that large LRM launchers will "stream"- that is, they'll spit out 2 at a time and take a while to fire. LRM 5's can give you a little added ranged artillery if you want to try the things on the cheap and learn how launchers operate- and when you train up on the missile-chassis version of the Awesome later it can be a good introduction.

I've put training time in on the -9M. She's one of the oldest assault chassis in the game, and plays more like a slow heavy than anything else- so if you treat her like one, she can still do the job.