81 replies to this topic

[Black Arachne]

Finally got the PPC's - I can go about 15 seconds before I shut down. This appears doable but I can't compete with the other mechs. I got Jagers, Cataphracts, and Highlanders reaming my mech apart with ac's and I can only return fire every couple of seconds while they have a continuous stream of shells hitting me.

Sadly, I'm starting to see what people mean I have yet to see anyone else piloting an Awesome. Can anyone post here what are the more powerful mechs in each category. And why is money earned with my own mech very low. At this rate would probably take me a week of gaming to get another 11 mil. This has been so far a terrible experience for a new player to this game but I do want to thank you all for your input. I'll probably give this another try in a few days.

[Deathlike]

Black Arachne, on 29 January 2014 - 08:16 PM, said:

Sadly, I'm starting to see what people mean I have yet to see anyone else piloting an Awesome. Can anyone post here what are the more powerful mechs in each category. And why is money earned with my own mech very low. At this rate would probably take me a week of gaming to get another 11 mil. This has been so far a terrible experience for a new player to this game but I do want to thank you all for your input. I'll probably give this another try in a few days.

The thing about Awesomes is that they take damage like a sponge. That's the problem.

To mitigate that, you could do some torso twisting, but the better overall goal is to fire in the general direction of an enemy target and then take cover. It's the normal tried and true method of all games, and that's the only real way of extending your mech's life in the match (regardless of the mech itself).

With regards to rewards, damage, kills, and assists make the bulk of the money, so... you have to be good in order to profit. That's the hard part until you get the driving and shooting basics down pat. Then everything makes sense.

[Asmudius Heng]

Remember to twist to expose the arm with no guns in it. Make the enemy chew off the useless arm before they get to your chewy centre.

[darkchylde]

Black Arachne, on 29 January 2014 - 08:16 PM, said:

Finally got the PPC's - I can go about 15 seconds before I shut down. This appears doable but I can't compete with the other mechs. I got Jagers, Cataphracts, and Highlanders reaming my mech apart with ac's and I can only return fire every couple of seconds while they have a continuous stream of shells hitting me.

Sadly, I'm starting to see what people mean I have yet to see anyone else piloting an Awesome. Can anyone post here what are the more powerful mechs in each category. And why is money earned with my own mech very low. At this rate would probably take me a week of gaming to get another 11 mil. This has been so far a terrible experience for a new player to this game but I do want to thank you all for your input. I'll probably give this another try in a few days.

When you first start you get a cadet bonus then PGI nerfs the hell out of how much exp/money you get afterwards. If you want, you can make a new account and buy another mech faster then it will take you now. Buy a Highlander/Victor if you want an assault mech or a stalker but the lack of JJ's limit you. For Heavies, Cataphract's are overall better than Jagers. Oh and never buy a mech that comprises mostly of energy hardpoints.

Edited by darkchylde, 29 January 2014 - 08:37 PM.

[Asmudius Heng]

darkchylde, on 29 January 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

For Heavies, Cataphract's are overall better than Jagers.

I dont own a Cataphract but the high mounted arms of the jagers give it a certain advantage on many builds ... they are decent mechs IMO

[darkchylde]

Asmudius Heng, on 29 January 2014 - 08:43 PM, said:

I dont own a Cataphract but the high mounted arms of the jagers give it a certain advantage on many builds ... they are decent mechs IMO

True but Cataphract's take more of a pounding and the jager arm's make for wonderful targets as well.

[Asmudius Heng]

darkchylde, on 29 January 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

True but Cataphract's take more of a pounding and the jager arm's make for wonderful targets as well.

Never found anyone bothers aiming for the arms TBH, i think the mechs both have strong points depending on playstyle ... but back to the topic at hand, i do not think anyone argues that the Awesome has anything on any other mech!

[Lucian Nostra]

Black Arachne, on 29 January 2014 - 08:16 PM, said:

Finally got the PPC's - I can go about 15 seconds before I shut down. This appears doable but I can't compete with the other mechs. I got Jagers, Cataphracts, and Highlanders reaming my mech apart with ac's and I can only return fire every couple of seconds while they have a continuous stream of shells hitting me.

Sadly, I'm starting to see what people mean I have yet to see anyone else piloting an Awesome. Can anyone post here what are the more powerful mechs in each category. And why is money earned with my own mech very low. At this rate would probably take me a week of gaming to get another 11 mil. This has been so far a terrible experience for a new player to this game but I do want to thank you all for your input. I'll probably give this another try in a few days.

AWS-9M

Try this build out, there's some wonkyness in MWO when you break 20 DHS, I run my PPCs in chain fire most the time and it can lay down a barrage for a good damn while before getting toasty.




This was today on Canyon Network, Alpha lances clashed over Epsilon, I was parked under the rock bridge by the cap point raining PPC fire practically nonstop the second we met (prolly 20 seconds in)

I did burn a cool shot 9x9, and had to stop for about 4 seconds another time when I peeked to 90%.


edit: I will say one thing about Awesomes you need to play them differently than the other assaults. You have armor but it's not going to hold up for more than a few seconds. Hang back, let the others engage and punish the enemy with the rain of PPCs!

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 29 January 2014 - 10:09 PM.

[Monky]

Anything beyond 1 ERPPC is a bad idea, and generally pairing an ERPPC with a PPC is also a bad idea. It takes an impossible number of DHS (literally not even close to possible) to keep 2 ERPPC cool even with no other weapons at all. It is similarly impossible for an ERPPC and PPC combo. You can keep 1 ERPPC cool with 13 extra DHS on top of the 10 in engine. With smart use of cooler backup weapons 1 ERPPC can be effective. Usually best paired with a ballistic like AC10 or 2x AC/UAC5.

It is possible to run semi-reasonably cool with 2 PPCs but generally this is also a bad idea and waste of tonnage unless you're an assault and have backup weapons, the most common being Gauss, AC5/UAC5, AC10.

[wanderer]

Like I've said- PPC's are bolt-action to an AC's machine gun- and Awesomes also have that broad, flat torso that begs to be hammered on.

Ideally, you want to engage at near the edge of your long range, if not further. -9M's are a little awkward in that the things are -just- short of squeezing a little extra from the stock version- which makes it a rough initial choice. A 325 XL (or 350) would give you room for another heat sink (or two)- but XL's are expensive for a newbie. It's got two of it's three missile hardpoints in the CT, meaning it's limited in modifications there. It's a high-heat energy layout in a game where cycling big energy weapons as fast as you can in large quantites will burn you out. You probably couldn't have had a tougher 'Mech to start with, but you can still work with it.

Early on, I'd go with something like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6b245e8cf009046

That'll give you LRMs to engage from cover with- not a huge amount, but it'll make an impression and they cycle rapidly, letting you give a steady rattling to whatever you're hammering on. The torso ERLL's have lots of reach and your 20 DHS can handle cooling them reliably, while the ER PPC on the arm can add in quick damage or let you hit-and-move- and if need be, you can just expose the PPC from a corner and shoot around it. You can always slap something with the main guns and then back up behind a hill, peppering them with LRM fire as you go. The Beagle will help out- it'll increase your sensor range (you'll see targets sooner) and you'll be able to see the details on those targets sooner (so you'll find weak spots sooner). I also switched some of the back armor up front- if you're fighting at long range, you need more of that armor on the side getting hit, and the Awesome has -very- thick back armor.

80 tons basically makes you a slightly oversized heavy, and that's who you should consider matches for you. Highlanders will beat you reliably- they both outweigh and outmaneuver you with jump jets. You can take on a Jager or 'Phract at range...just don't be tempted to slug it out. Put a salvo into them and break line of sight, then start pelting them with LRM fire while you cool down if you have someone else with line-of-sight.

You'll have plenty of room to improve it, but that should happen as you find out what you like or dislike using. If you find lasers more comfortable than PPC's, you may ending beefing up the engine a bit and swapping to ER'LLs. Or if LRMs catch your fancy, you may up that arm mount to an LRM 15 or 20 (10's tend to be a mite inefficient). Maybe you'll keep two PPC's on it, get a zoom module and snipe while using the other hardpoints for short-range guns. That's MWO for you- every pilot finds what works for them as they play a chassis, and tunes it as they go along.

[Felicitatem Parco]

@ Black Arachne -

MechWarrior: Online uses 10-second heat sinks, but increased the allowed firing rates of weapons.

This means you can fire your PPCs every 10 seconds to achieve heat balance, or you can fire them more frequently and voluntarily generate heat faster than you can dissipate it. Many users have found that you can by-pass the shortcomings caused by the 10-second heat system by using ballistic weapons. Ballistic users can utilize their artificially-increased firing rates without generating debilitating heat (since AC and Gauss are cool weapons) in the face of 10-second heat sinks.

The overall situation is that MW:O Assault Mechs work best if you mix Energy Weapons that operate from the DHS in your engine, and supplement them with Autocannons or Gauss that generate high damage for low heat. That way you get (comparatively) light-weight PPCs operating alongside your (comparatively heavy) Autocannons. The Awesome Mechs, therefore, can only operate competitively if you use Missiles to produce medium-heat damage alongside your energy weapons that generate high heat damage.

It's physically impossible to produce sustained all-energy firepower in this game since you can only fit enough Heatsinks to fire 3 PPCs every 10 seconds, whereas you can fire huge quantities of AC/10s and AC/5s without overheating.
.

[Joseph Mallan]

dario03, on 29 January 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Different weapons have different ghost heat affects and AC's don't link with ghost heat. So while firing 4 AC2's will give you ghost heat firing 2 AC2's and 2AC5's won't, 2 AC20 will but 1 AC20 and 2AC2 won't. If you didn't see my edit here is a site with the info http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eapon_heatscale

Except Smurfy shows 2 ERPPCs having a lousy 31% efficiency 30 heat v 40 dissipation is just fail. If heat dissipated like cyclic elevated the 9M could fire 2 ERPPCs non stop, as it did on TT. It was called an Awesome cause it was deadly when introduced.

[Almond Brown]

darkchylde, on 29 January 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

True but Cataphract's take more of a pounding and the jager arm's make for wonderful targets as well.

That is a very interesting statement, considering those 2 chassis have a mere 12 points of armor in the difference.

Jager 422
Cataphract 434

Must be a perception based thing I guess.

[Almond Brown]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 January 2014 - 09:53 AM, said:

Except Smurfy shows 2 ERPPCs having a lousy 31% efficiency 30 heat v 40 dissipation is just fail. If heat dissipated like cyclic elevated the 9M could fire 2 ERPPCs non stop, as it did on TT. It was called an Awesome cause it was deadly when introduced.

The erPPC also provides what no other Energy or Ballistic weapons provides any chassis that wishes to utilize them. 10 points of pin point damage out to 810m. If a Pilot can show some self control, that is hard to beat when the proper circumstances present themselves.

but YMMV

[M4NTiC0R3X]

I was one of the few to really enjoy piloting an AWS-9M (fav) awhile ago. Then they nerfed its main weapons numerous times, for good reason I suppose, but never went back to wipe their tush. Then they released the Victor, which is superior in all ways considering it's the only other 80 ton chassis (for when weight limitations arrive).

When weight restrictions do arise, I wonder if it woud be possible to make a Battlemaster purposefully weigh 80 tons, doubt it.

Just so you know, the AWS has never ever been considered for competitive gameplay based off of hit / hard points. I only enjoyed taking the fastest most heavily armored flank assister role, looked great with a jenner / centurion / dragon / awesome. But yeah, the speed to armor and firepower ratio was THE ONLY thing it ever had going for it and that was over a year ago now it is literally a useless pile. And to think I used to be so proud of it because at the time was the most expensive chassis in game after it's XL385 - 380.... Most expensive pile of scrap these days.

^ one of the many reasons my interest has faded in this game. There are a few builds that have been and will be viable long into the future. The Jenner, the Shadowhawk, the Cataphract, Highlander and Atlas would be among them. All 'mechs are doable if you play their strengths and fulfill the proper role.

Oh and if you've read this far, go to google and type in MWO Mech Tier List. Very informative.

Edited by M4NTiC0R3X, 30 January 2014 - 10:47 AM.

[Koniving]

Edit: Two pieces of additional information.
What weapons are punished if too many are fired in less than half a second of each other.
Heat simulator to get a rough idea of what to expect with your equipment. Tells you exactly what happens to your cooling (dissipation) and threshold (maximum heat til shutdown) on different maps, too.

Black Arachne, on 29 January 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

Greets to the Community,

Finally was able to grind enough credits to buy one of my favorite mechs from when I was younger. The AWS-9M which was piloted by Major Adam Steiner, and a mech I always had in my lance when playing battlemecn but there seems to be something very wrong with it. When I took out on the battlefield, my mech shutdown within a few seconds of firing. My first shot with the ER-PPC's sent my heat too around 90%, and when the weapons were ready to fire again. My mech shutdown and sustained damage to the center torso. This was roughly about 6 seconds of gameplay.

So I decided to take a look at the awesome in the mechlab just to make sure everything looked fine. The mech has the right amount of heatsinks (20 DHS) and the engine rating is also correct. I also took the mech to the training grounds and tried firing just 2 of ERPPC's but the mech was still shutting down, the only difference is that it lasted about 10 seconds. Then I tried a single PPC, the mech was capable of sustaining its fire with just 1 weapon. This can't be right. Took the mech back to the mechlab, pulled everything off and back on and took it into a live game. Same problem, I am unable to sustain fire only I use a single PPC, using 2 or 3 was forcing my mech to shut down and get destroyed. It feels like I am unable to even defend myself against other mechs that are firing ballistics non-stop. Other thing I noticed, that very few mechs were even using ERPPC, a few had PPC's but they were also shutting down from sustain fire but were lasting a lot longer then I was.

Can a dev or someone explain what's going on here?

A few quick things.

Technically: In tabletop the 3 ER PPCs are fired one at a time, across 10 seconds, usually hitting 3 different body parts to prevent reaching the '45 heat' all at once within the 10 second time period. After all, if you hit 30 heat you shut down in tabletop.

Spoiler

0 seconds. 0 heat. Fire 1 ER PPC + 15 heat.
1 second, cool 4 points. 11 heat.
2 seconds, cool 4 points. 7 heat.
3 seconds, cool 4 points. 3 heat. Fire 2nd ER PPC + 15 heat. 3 + 15 = 18. (60% heat.)
4 seconds, cool 4 points. 14 heat.
5 seconds, cool 4 points. 10 heat.
6 seconds, cool 4 points. 6 heat. Fire 3rd ER PPC + 15 heat. 6 + 15 = 21. (70% heat.)
7 seconds, cool 4 points. 17 heat.
8 seconds, cool 4 points. 13 heat.
9 seconds, cool 4 points. 9 heat.
10 seconds, cool 4 points. 5 heat.

You're firing all 3 at once. On tabletop if it were actually feasibly possible that'd be:

Spoiler

0 seconds: 3 ER PPCs fired, +45 heat. 150% heat. Emergency shutdown! Roll for explosions.
1 second, cool 4 points. 41 heat.
2 seconds, cool 4 points. 37 heat.
3 seconds, cool 4 points. 33 heat.
4 seconds, cool 4 points. 29 heat. Power up point. Risk of re-shutting down is high.
5 seconds, cool 4 points. 25 heat. (83% heat. Risk of reshutting down begins at 80% heat)
6 seconds, cool 4 points. 21 heat. (70% heat. Safe to start up without risk.)
7 seconds, cool 4 points. 17 heat.
8 seconds, cool 4 points. 13 heat.
9 seconds, cool 4 points. 9 heat.
10 seconds, cool 4 points. 5 heat.
Note that since you have to be able to move within said turn, alpha strike in Battletech is impossible.

So, that would be your problem in Mechwarrior (1989), Battletech, Mechwarrior 3, computer version of mechwarrior 2 before the expansions which raised the threshold from 30 to 40 for an arcadey feel. This problem doesn't exist in Mechwarrior 4 (where the threshold is 60 before mektek) as Microsoft wanted to appeal to twitch shooters as well.

In MWO the average 10 DHS mech starts with 50 threshold, and after mastering becomes 60 threshold. In theory you're only using 45 heat.

However PGI discovered problems with this rising threshold system that they invented. The first step was to reduce any Added Heatsinks (as in anything not built directly into the engine. Added includes anything you stuff directly into the engine manually) to "1.4" heatsinks rather than "2.0". That's by the 10 second rule. In real time it's "0.14" heatsinks rather than "0.2".

Your Awesome in this rather convoluted system has 30 base threshold + 10*2.0 + 10*1.4 = 64 threshold. That's 34 more than tabletop. But instead of only measuring it as a summary, you're measuring it in real time and able to fire faster than once per 10 second time period. You're cooling at a rate of (above equation - 30 base = 34 per 10 seconds / 10 seconds = 3.4 per second). You are, factually, cooling slower than the tabletop Awesome 9M in exchange for your ability to alpha strike more at once. This is to please those who like the one to two button rule and alpha striking.

You can alpha 4 ER PPCs at once in theory while walking at half speed. The only cost is that you cool slightly slower. Didn't mean jack to the game, did it? Nothing at all. As you can imagine, PGI suddenly gained brown pants when they failed to realize how they screwed up. By the time they realized it, it was too late to change how the core heat system worked.

The end result? "Heat Scale." Also dubbed ghost heat. What this does is punish you for using a large number of Heat Scale Linked weapons. The problem is it only punishes linked weapons and not large alpha strikes like the actual heat system should punish if it weren't screwed with.

The long story is, we can alpha and pinpoint more firepower than the Battletech universe has EVER intended for us to do in far less time. The punishment? Slower heat dissipation and heat scale. Had they gone the other route by keeping Tabletop heat dissipation AND NON-RISING-THRESHOLDS, we'd have a much more battletech experience. We wouldn't be complaining about alpha strikes but instead about high endurance (semi-heat neutral) builds. And autocannons would be nerfed into the ground while missiles and lasers reigned, battles lasting so long that double armor would never have been necessary, and finally the Gauss Rifle would be king even in its current state. Admittedly, autocannons need some multi-shot spread anyway.

That said, welcome to mechwarrior online. Simply fire 2 ER PPCs at a time or switch to 3 regular PPCs as the ghost heat is rather minor.

Truth be told, in tabletop converted to real time, even firing 2 ER PPCs could never happen. 30 heat - 0 seconds of cooling = 30 threshold = 100% heat. So be content with what you've got.

In the mean time, here's Awesomes very recently firing 3 PPCs at once to spit in the face of heat scale.

Edited by Koniving, 30 January 2014 - 11:11 AM.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

Another thing I wanted to say is that I saw an ECM Spider equiped w/ JJ's and a single ERPPC. The ability to not be targeted easily (no audio blip or visual confirmation) + the ability the be fast and keep distance + the ability to not be stopped by hills + the ability to deal 10 damage at great distances = Spider a.) did not die and was last man standing b.) did over 800 damage and c.) single handedly took down an almost fully armored shadowhawk and highlander.

It was a streak of luck but the spider pilot sure knew how to use the terrain in Alpine Peaks and was very skilled indeed. If you want to wreak havoc with ERPPC's the ECM spider could be a much cheaper alternative

Edited by M4NTiC0R3X, 30 January 2014 - 10:59 AM.

[Gorgo7]

Jez, on 29 January 2014 - 04:34 PM, said:

For anyone considering to get the -9M...DON'T DO IT!!!!

It has been superseded by the Battlemaster-1G which has:

1. Superior hardpoint placement in the upper side torsos which is a huge advantage over the 9M where the hardpoints are at waist level.
2. Smaller profile (slimmer and therefore harder to hit)
3. Better survivability with an XL engine
4. 2 ballistic hardpoints in the arm (the 9M has none) which is preferable over the SRM slots on the 9M post SRM nerf.

There is no functional role that the 9M can perform where the BLR-1G can't perform it better. Avoid the entire Awesome line until PGI decides to do something about it.

Well, the 1G handles like a pig. Is as pointy as a brick. The 9M with a large engine points well, moves smartly (climbing too) and is a real asset to a team. I prefer it to a Battlemaster.
And yes, I run it with three PPC's and three SSRM's.

[Kenyon Burguess]

I gave up on ppcs and the awesome and use 1 erl and 2 large pulse and streaks. its got a little something for all ranges and I don't have to worry about shutting down every 10 seconds.

[Voivode]

Asmudius Heng, on 29 January 2014 - 08:49 PM, said:

Never found anyone bothers aiming for the arms TBH, i think the mechs both have strong points depending on playstyle ... but back to the topic at hand, i do not think anyone argues that the Awesome has anything on any other mech!

Awesome is my favorite mech. I've owned/do own every mech in the game and the Awesome remains my favorite. I think the downfall of most who try the Awesome is the tendency of assault pilots to "stare down" their target. The awesome is not a stand and trade blows kind of mech. If you want a stand and trade blows mech, please look under Atlas. The Awesome has excellent maneuverability compared to other mechs, an excellent cockpit view out the sides during free look allowing for "sideways" piloting, and tremendously large arms with large amounts of armor. On most models (unfortunately not the 9M in question) one of those arms is a "dead" arm that carries not weapons, which makes it an ideal damage sponge.