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Hit Detection Is Broken. Unaccpetable For An Fps.


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#1 Ryan Steel

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 02:11 PM

Since I started playing this game in closed beta, I've dealt with a lot of stuff and never made a peep until about a month ago, when terrible hit detection (this is my real problem) in combination with bad matchmaking just made me blow a gasket.

Most of what everyone else complained and continue to complain about made me grumble at the most.

3rd person? I guess I can live with it.

Consumables? Wasn't necessary, but if they must.

Terrible weapon balance? Creates lack of diversity, but I guess it'll have to do.

Terrain mechanics? Sometimes stumbling on a tiny rock makes my blood pressure rise but meditation and massive doses of sedatives have kept me at bay.

Lack of content? The game itself got pretty boring a long time ago but I play with a group of fantastic players who I consider great people and friends. They kept me entertained far past the point when the game got stale.

Bad matchmaking? It gets boring when the only way matchmaker can challenge you is by putting the worst players on your team instead of putting 2 elite teams against each other. On occasion when enough good players are online things can be interesting and fun, but most of the time the matchmaking is awful. Still, I can live with it. When you get good enough at the game you can win regardless so it only made me twitch a little.

Absolutely abysmal hit detection? This is the deal breaker. When I can't damage what I hit, I am no longer playing an FPS. I'm playing a board game with diceroll. Yes, I'm piloting a mech in the first person and I'm interacting with other mechs. For the past few months, when I shoot a mech, there's a significant percent chance that I do either no damage or significantly reduced damage. Hit detection is ruined.

I was extremely annoyed at this before I took my ~1 month break from this game, but after I loaded it up again last week after playing a month worth of another FPS with perfect hit detection, I realized how much I don't want to ever play this game again simply because of bad hit detection. Everyone has their set of criteria about what makes a game fun, and one of mine is being rewarded for being good at one of the most fundamental parts of said game, which in the case of MWO happens to be shooting. I am a good shot. There is no doubt about it. I just started playing Planetside 2 for the past month, and I am, according to the game's player stat database, ranked #15th for headshot ratio in the entire game for the SVA-88 LMG. Suffice to say that I can point and click at your face pretty quick and without much of a sweat.

Without hit detection, this game effectively removes an attribute of mine that is supposed to make me an extremely formidable opponent and throws it out the window. Not only does it do that, but it penalizes me multiplefold:






  • After I shoot you in the face and you take no damage, I now have to wait till my weapons cool down so I can attempt to shoot at your face again, this time hopefully for damage.






  • I've gained a considerable amount of heat. I won't have infinite attempts at shooting at your face because after this second shot, I may be at my heat threshold.






  • I've wasted ammo. I can only carry so many tons.






  • I've exposed myself to shoot you, did zero damage to you, and now you have a chance to shoot me back. You may also do zero damage to me, or you may do between zero and the right amount. Either way, I have traded 0 damage to you for potential damage to me, at no fault of my own. I cannot “learn to shoot better” in this instance, as I have already shot at your face, and your face is fine.






  • With bad hit detection, my superior aim is rendered to a “by chance” phenomenon, and so is my opponent's. If my opponent can roll the right hit detection dice and I keep rolling snake eyes (especially if I'm badly damaged) I'm really screwed. I wouldn't be too worried about facing a fresh opponent whilst I'm damaged if hit detection were fine for me, but alas with bad hit detection it gives my fresh opponent more chances to roll the dice and damage me.


If this game was advertised as a diceroll FPS, I would never have installed it, ever. I'm not the type of guy that opens himself up to chance. I make my own luck, thank you very much. Hit detection seems to be a really controversial issue in these parts and before I took a month off, I kind of accepted that more or less. I'd been dealing with playing with a handicap for so long I forgot what it was like to play a game that didn't give you one, and rewarded you for being a good shot. When I played a few rounds last week, boy did I not compensate for not being able to do damage on X% of my shots. I had to play conservatively, which simply isn't my style. I'm Rambo. I like to jump into the fray and shred you to pieces. Sure, I can still win, because regardless of what diceroll I get, I'm still going to be aiming at the same components. But it's not the type of win I'm looking for. I don't believe in balancing out skill. If I'm 100 times better than you then our duel better look humiliating.



There seems to be two different issues that plague me with not registering damage. One is bad hit detection that happens totally randomly. It can happen a seemingly unlimited times in a row, whereby I repeatedly fire on a mech and they either flash light yellow with a red crosshair (reduced damage) or the crosshair doesn't go red and they take absolutely no damage. I've had a bunch of guys spectate me, including kaffeangst, End Crescendo, Villz, JP (in which they can see from a server side perspective) and watch me nail an enemy dead CT for zero damage repeatedly for over 8 shots. This is not infrequent. It plagues my gaming experience. Another example is when I'll cycle my weapons as fast as they can fire. So it will look like this (and I'm only talking about crosshairs turning red here):

2 AC5= hit
2 AC5=hit
2 PPC= no hit
2 AC5=hit
2 AC5=no hit
2 AC5=no hit
2 PPC= no hit
Unacceptable= not acknowledged by PGI

The other issue is desync, which used to happen to me more a few months ago but happens to me extremely rarely today if any. Basically, I would shoot at an enemy, but when one of my buddies would spectate me he would notice that my shot would miss them by a mechlength when I in fact hit them perfectly well on my screen. Like I said, I don't experience this a whole lot a anymore and is not much of a problem.

I've talked to and personally met some of the IGP devs of this game. They seemed like really cool and knowledgeable people and we got along well. One of the devs tried to help me with my hitreg problems and they tried their best. I know that if it were up to them, they would make this game playable for me and for all of us. I know it's totally out of their control and that they never thought for a second that PGI could hash out such a botched up product. I know what it's like to hire someone that doesn't deliver and because of this I 100% sympathize with IGP and all of their developers. The IGP devs that I spoke to genuinely cared about my gaming experience and trying to make it positive and I'm just one guy. I know for a fact that the IGP guys care about the product they deliver just based on my interaction with them. They just trusted the wrong people, a mistake that anyone could have made.

If a player like me, who has endured and accepted each and every decision-- however controversial or unpopular that has been made so far by PGI, has had enough, it's time to look at how your game works. I have put in so far about over $1000 dollars into this game, and I couldn't care less at this point about not playing it because the product I invested in no longer works. It's broken. Fix it.

***Sorry about the typo on the title. What are you gonna do?

***And how could I possibly forget?: LORD STEEL
ggclose

Edited by Ryan Steel, 31 January 2014 - 03:32 PM.


#2 Wispsy

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:23 PM

That is a large amount of money spent to shoot guns with blanks.

Edit-well if everyone is going to:

LORD WISPSY
ggclose

Edited by Wispsy, 31 January 2014 - 06:49 PM.


#3 Deathlike

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:28 PM

I thought this thread would end with the proper statement.

ggclose

SRM hit detection is "not high on their bucket list", so improving HSR is probably not too far behind.

I would like to amend the best answer for this topic...

gg not close PGI

Edited by Deathlike, 31 January 2014 - 03:28 PM.


#4 Zordicron

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:51 PM

Yup. And if you have a rotten ISP like me and get 400 ping while living in a fairly populated area of Wisconsin, you have even worse times.

Last night, 2 matches in Alpine with my Boar head.

Match one, skrimish mode. My team globs up fairly well, but took their time wandering a bit first, so when we got to decided meeting spot on the one mountain(H9 i think) the other team had already established there. At first, not too bad of a fight, we had them out gunned, and only through some of my team being chicken, and my ABSOLUTE BOTCHED HIT DETECTION did we get pushed back . I have 6 ML and an AC20 on my BH. I fired 6 ML 4 times, at one Jager that was STANDING STILL ON TOP OF A RIDGE 150M away. I aimed for his left torso, as it was closer to me. of those 4 salvos, 2 showed no hit at all, and the other two i think did roughly 10 dmg total as his armor went yellow where I hit him in the Torso. Wait WUT? Even if Only 2 of 4 shots hit, thats 30 dmg a shot. 60 dmg =yellow armor. Wait no it means it should have no armor.

So anyway, i also took a pot shot at a Raven with AC20 as I was torso twisting and hit it square in the face and it registered. This in itself is most of why ballistics > other stuff right now, but thats another thread.

Anyway that match went on and in the end, a missile boat catapult and a missile boat Battlemaster were all that they had, and some AFK battlemaster brawler on our team decided to walk over the will 100% fresh on top of them at the end of match. He managed to stay in min range of LRM, took out the cat with only some yellow armor dmg on torsos and on one arm.

then, he starts a 120M range dual with the other battlemaster. Our guy has 2 LL, 4ML, and some AC on his arm. he is pelting this guy in the torso over and over, not missing, at least 4 shots of double LL and 4 shots of quad ML. plus 3 AC shots. only 3, because other guy, had 3 MPL. other guy, cored our guy after he took his arm off. And it wasnt clean shots, he was overheating and stripped the armor off the entire torso(s of our guy. he just had 100% hit detection and our guy got maybe 25%.


match two, this time conquest. not much to this one, we capped a point, and a wolverine and Shawk were playing LRM5 spammers off to the side, witha pharact a good ways off. I got a bead on the Shawk within 300M around the hill, and his pals were busy trying to get our raven that went to flank the phract around a whole different ridge.

I catch shawk totally by surprise. it was glorious, Interception Successful. i was within 180M the whole time, perfect to take on this LRm toting ML shawk.

I hit him with 3 AC20 rounds to CT, and 4 salvos of 6 ML to CT. After the first AC20 and 2 ML salvos, he pretty much stopped trying to evade me much, slowed to a idle pace and just sort of strafed me a bit and aimed his shots because he was invincible basically. 30x4=120 dmg, 20x3=60 dmg, = 180 dmg to his CT. he got orange armor, and his ML shot through my right torso, and then his wolverine pal came and helped him finish me as I pretty well stopped shooting at him by that point and tried to hit his pal instead. 180 dmg, I am not sure an Atlas can survive that even with 100% frontloaded armor. This 55 ton mech got maybe 60% of his armor taken off.


thats how it goes for me. I dont usually play assaults, because I need to be able to escape a situation after a test shot to see if my dmg will actually work against a foe. Sometimes, i get really lucky and my lasers work right and I can core out a foe in what feels like record pace compared to most of the time, where my lasers do maybe 40% of thier intended dmg.

really rthough, my fave is when I shoot two LL at an atlas or something, hit it IN THE FACE< IN ITS EYEBALLS from 75M and it flashes like left arm, or right leg lol. Shoot Fatlas right in the *** with my spider as i trail him? Left arm flashes lolwut.

Eh, maybe UI 2.0 will solve it all eh?

#5 Deathlike

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:56 PM

View PostEldagore, on 31 January 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

Eh, maybe UI 2.0 will solve it all eh?


https://twitter.com/...230853490962433

Russ's Twitter said:

Yes that is true UI 2.0 has been an immense bottleneck and it unlocks practically everything.

Edited by Deathlike, 31 January 2014 - 03:56 PM.


#6 Homeless Bill

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:58 PM

It's pretty bad, but I don't expect them to event attempt to tweak it for another year. It's maddening to have so many shots just disappear into thin air. Also...

Quote

$1000

Jesus. H. Christ.

Posted Image

#7 Ryan Steel

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:02 PM

View PostHomeless Bill, on 31 January 2014 - 03:58 PM, said:


Jesus. H. Christ.

Posted Image


I know. I couldn't help myself. I was an addict. I kept buying more.

#8 Clit Beastwood

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:18 PM

View PostRyan Steel, on 31 January 2014 - 04:02 PM, said:


I know. I couldn't help myself. I was an addict. I kept buying more.



lol yeah, if I remember correctly I'm somewhere in the neighborhood. I kept pumping money in because I felt somewhere in the back of my mind like it might help things get better faster. I'm done pumping money into this machine though. Colors, every hero mech, etc. - things I don't even want or use because I want to support the franchise. Feeling pretty burned as of late. I was considering a month or so off - sounds like it really didn't do you any good at all - is that about right?

#9 Grrzoot

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 05:23 PM

View PostEldagore, on 31 January 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

Yup. And if you have a rotten ISP like me and get 400 ping while living in a fairly populated area of Wisconsin, you have even worse times.



where in wisconsin? i live there an my ping is either 39,47,or 51 if the wife is watching netflix. pm me and maybe i can help?

and to Mr. Steel
With all that time and money invested into this game it makes a lot more sense to me now the type of performances you and your friends pull off in many of the matches i have seen you in. Not to propagate your ego but whenever i see you guys i know its either going to be:
a.) a really good fight with a few high elo balanced 4 mans on both sides
or b.) (more likely) one side wins in an almost total stomp due to the large prevalence of [REDACTED] who like firing at rocks and looking at the pretty colors.

i also know its probably a 4 man of 733c's but whatever.

#10 WarZ

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 05:31 PM

Whats a real slap in the face :

According to dev posts recently they believe they already have fixed hit detection with HSR. So all this bad hit detection is the "fixed" product. IMO things are just as bad if not worse than pre HSR. I'm not sure what the devs "think" they are doing, but they arent actually fixing things.

IMO this game was at its height of stability and playability in closed beta, just before it went open. Most of the fixes and additions to the game since then have been one misery after another.

#11 deforce

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 05:53 PM

True story.

$1000, almost enough for a Idris.

LORD DEFORCE
ggclose

#12 Primetimex

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 06:32 PM

Only way to fix this game is for everyone to STOP pumping money and just sit back and wait to see what happens. Don't buy any weekly sales, no MC, no premium time, camo or any of the rubbish they put out.

Fixing hit detection is one thing - but to keep pumping out weekly sales right on the dot every single weekend - it is perhaps the only deadline that PGI never missed!

Hit detection goes as far back as when I first played this game back in 2012 - I remembered I hit a Catapult with six ML to the head and NOTHING registered - it was cored too.

Edited by Primetimex, 31 January 2014 - 06:32 PM.


#13 Noesis

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 06:39 PM

View PostHomeless Bill, on 31 January 2014 - 03:58 PM, said:

Quote

$1000


Jesus. H. Christ.

Posted Image


Cheapskate.

My healthier 4 figure dollar sum trumps this amount and not a golden Mech to be seen in the hanger I might add.

You need to buy more MC, not even "gg close" on this one. :P

#14 Homeless Bill

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 06:44 PM

View PostNoesis, on 31 January 2014 - 06:39 PM, said:


Cheapskate.

My healthier 4 figure dollar sum trumps this amount and not a golden Mech to be seen in the hanger I might add.

You need to buy more MC, not even "gg close" on this one. :P

I've been at 510 MC since I bought Phoenix and said, "No more until progress." Progress hasn't happened, and so neither has more money. Believe me - I'd love to grab a couple of good (non-PB hero 'mechs) and some paint. But I've made it this far, and it looks like they're getting close these days.

#15 Wispsy

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 06:51 PM

I still have the majority of my founders MC, hell have not even activated my premium time...However I simply could not help myself with the Chinese lanterns and multiple Cyans...

Edited by Wispsy, 31 January 2014 - 06:51 PM.


#16 Mister Blastman

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 07:03 PM

Ryan speaks the truth. I have the exact same problem.

#17 Deathlike

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 07:22 PM

View PostWispsy, on 31 January 2014 - 06:51 PM, said:

I still have the majority of my founders MC, hell have not even activated my premium time...However I simply could not help myself with the Chinese lanterns and multiple Cyans...


Well, they'll be selling more of that in due time (that being Chinese New Year stuff).

Edited by Deathlike, 31 January 2014 - 07:22 PM.


#18 Wispsy

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 07:29 PM

View PostDeathlike, on 31 January 2014 - 07:22 PM, said:


Well, they'll be selling more of that in due time (that being Chinese New Year stuff).


I do not need more then one set....These might possibly be the only hanging items I ever buy in this game, unless they do the same but in Cyan or something obviously.

#19 Deathlike

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 07:31 PM

View PostWispsy, on 31 January 2014 - 07:29 PM, said:

I do not need more then one set....These might possibly be the only hanging items I ever buy in this game, unless they do the same but in Cyan or something obviously.


Is that really the only thing you bought (outside of the colors, which I can understand)?

#20 Mawai

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 07:32 PM

I've had a similar experience with bad hit detection against a stalker that wasn't moving.

JM6-S ... 8 to 10 salvos of 4xAC5 into the CT ... 160 to 200 damage. The Stalker CT armor was orange and both side torsos were yellow. No idea where the damage went but it did not show up on the Stalker .. on the other hand I had 897 total damage for the match ...





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