54 replies to this topic

[GhostWalkn]

This is my revised Atlas ("final" revision 7)

The only flaw I can think of is only 30 AC10 ammo

It would have good endurance but I think the firepower was adjusted to that benefit. Not that it's lacking firepower, it just doesn't have too much

I could play with it more to get the AC20, but the 10 has better range at least. As it stands it's well suited for distance

I only had to carve less than a ton of armor to get here

Edited by GhostWalkn, 04 February 2014 - 07:50 AM.

[dragnier1]

I took your design and tweaked it a bit.

Atlas DDC

I took out bap, used 1 ton for ac10 ammo and the rest to armor. I also changed the er large to normal large lasers. Your lrms will cover the distance past 650m anyway.

[Void Angel]

GhostWalkn, on 04 February 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

This is my revised Atlas ("final" revision 7)

The only flaw I can think of is only 30 AC10 ammo

May I be brutally honest with you? The flaw in that Atlas is that it has "an" AC/10. Atlases do not perform their best at long range - there's a reason they're nearly always brawlers. The low weapon mounts (all but the missile tubes are at about waist level) we keep on bringing up are important. I'm not trying to say that you have to have a brawler - but a single AC/10 on that build won't keep you alive at close range, and the single LRM launcher you've added will simply annoy people and draw light 'mechs like bees to honey. Playing a long-range Atlas is already hard enough; this build will make you hate the chassis - because actually, that is lacking in firepower for an Atlas. If you want to use that LRM/laser setup effectively, drop the engine down and use this.

Basically, even with an Atlas' tonnage, you have to pick a specialty in order to be most effective. Those lasers and the AC/10 need to be in line of sight with your enemy, and you have the reach to outrange most brawlers. But the AC doesn't fit well; it sits solidly in the middle of the road; at the outside edge between large laser brawling and true long-range combat. Out to its minimum range of 450m, it actually does 0.25 more dps (roughly, because of the charge mechanic) than the Gauss Rifle, but the Gauss rifle's massively superior range fits much better with your ER Lasers and is far more heat efficient as well. On the speed side, you don't need to be as fast as a close-in brawler because of your range, so your speed is just to keep people at range while they retreat or try to rush you.

You want to play this build as a sort of "long-range brawler," maintaining line of sight to your target without exposing yourself to too many of the enemy. Keep pounding on the enemy, using the LRMs when people aren't running for cover, or when you can't see the enemy without walking in front of all their guns. Don't get ahead of your team; you want people who are after you to expose themselves to your teammates, and people who are after your teammates to get pounded on by an Atlas they can't quite reach. Placing people on the horns of a dilemma by facing them with two bad choices is what playing an Atlas is all about. People run from Atlases, and they run from LRMs - use that to your advantage by shaking them with missiles as you plaster them with relativistic nickel-iron and gigawatt lasers, and you'll do ok - but be warned: this kind of Atlas can be very hard to play, so stick with your team and be patient.

[JigglyMoobs]

GhostWalkn, on 04 February 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

This is my revised Atlas ("final" revision 7)

The only flaw I can think of is only 30 AC10 ammo

It would have good endurance but I think the firepower was adjusted to that benefit. Not that it's lacking firepower, it just doesn't have too much

I could play with it more to get the AC20, but the 10 has better range at least. As it stands it's well suited for distance

I only had to carve less than a ton of armor to get here

You can take leg armor down to something like 45 each.

Don't take BAP on an ECM mech. ECM interferes with BAP so you don't get many of the benefits.

If you take ER LL down to LL you start running a lot cooler and you can lose a couple of the heat sinks, which frees up room for more ammo. ER LL isn't that much more useful that LL. Remember that other people are shooting back. Often times in an Atlas, when you are employing ER LLs where they might seem useful, you're really not trading damage favorably.

Or, you might considering losing the heatsinks. In that case your heat efficiency will drop below 40%, but only a little. Then you take into account that you are unlikely to be shooting your lrms at the same time as your other weapons in many scenarios, it might actually be OK.

AC/20 vs AC/10 - I'd definitely go with 20 if I can. 10 doesn't seem to have sufficient punch to make people hesitate from advancing on you. It's not very expensive you you can try it out.

Also, when trying to decide on the heat issue, the weapons lab is your friend. Go in there and try to run through different scenarios. How much is my max dps and how many seconds can I keep it up? What if I just use lrms? What if I'm just using LLs and AC/10? How hot am I running and how much damage am I putting out at ranges where I typically want to fight? How do I intend to combine the LRMs and the other weapons? Am I using only LRMs long range? What's my game plan for someone at mid range: 180m to 400m? What's my game plan for someone up close <180m when my lrms won't work? etc. Then play the game and try it. Then modify the game plan and your weapons load accordingly.
Good luck!

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 04 February 2014 - 12:58 PM.

[luxebo]

Not bad of a build actually, but I would say that it's far too mixed actually. As said before, no need for BAP when you have ECM. On the contrary of what JigglyMoobs said however, Don't lower the amount of leg armor. People usually probe for weak leg armor, and I saw a Jagermech with dual gauss at about 800 M take out a DDC within a couple leg shots recently. I would've suggested to try the Highlander trial as it has similar config, but they replaced it again for some reason... I think make the AC10 either grouped with another AC (2/5 or Ultra?) or you can make it dual LBX AC 10. Single AC20 is preferred, but not mandatory. ER LL can be downgraded, but up to you if you like grazing on targets that are light or far. LRM's if you really want them is best with TAG, but that's troublesome to place in DDC's. Not sure if you really want LRM's, you may want to actually change to SRM's or SSRM's.

[GhostWalkn]

This MUST be the build. I really feel hot about this brawler (revision 11)

At first I put in the AC20, made the ER lasers regular, swapped the LRM for 3x SRMS and took out the beacon, on a 325. I had 4 free slots and just kind slapped a double HS in there...

But then I wanted artemis for the SRM. I had the slots but I needed tonnage. So I made the 325 a 300. Then I had extra tonnage and I swapped for Ultra5s. It turned out a perfect 0 free slots and 592 armor

So long as I make my movements mistake free NOBODY would want to run into that thing and be the target.

I'm only at 4M in my wallet so this will stand for discussion THANK YOU for the help

Edited by GhostWalkn, 05 February 2014 - 10:33 AM.

[luxebo]

That's a very good build I see there, but it's gonna be costly! Your only worries is if you're ready for dual ultra ac5s and the jam, and if the armor and ammo placement should be as it is. Keep modifying if the armor and ammo placement don't suit you and you lose a piece of your mech far too fast.

[Void Angel]

That is, in fact, one of the three major cookie-cutter Atlas builds extant these days, along with the AC/20 Brawler, and Hillbilly Shotgun builds. The only thing you probably will want to change is the lack of AMS - but that's personal preference these days. There are minor variations concerning whether to take Artemis, or upgrade to Large lasers with a smaller engine, which SRMs to use, etc, but people have arrived at those three general builds by much the same process as you did - it's just that other people helped them with weapons fire rather than advice. =)

PS: PLEASE STOP POSTING THE WHOLE SCREEN SHOT. It's more trouble for you, and it makes your posts more cumbersome to read - just hit Smurfy's Share and Save button and paste the URL onto your text with the Link button on the posting toolbar.

Edited by Void Angel, 05 February 2014 - 09:20 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Void Angel, on 05 February 2014 - 09:19 PM, said:

That is, in fact, one of the three major cookie-cutter Atlas builds extant these days, along with the AC/20 Brawler, and Hillbilly Shotgun builds. The only thing you probably will want to change is the lack of AMS - but that's personal preference these days. There are minor variations concerning whether to take Artemis, or upgrade to Large lasers with a smaller engine, which SRMs to use, etc, but people have arrived at those three general builds by much the same process as you did - it's just that other people helped them with weapons fire rather than advice. =)

I've got a personal bias against so much ammo being in the legs of an Atlas, which are often a prime target as the easiest way to bring one down. I also don't like spending tons armoring a section that's only carrying a single light gun.

Thus..

Brawler MK2

This remix is meant to fire the AC/20 + PPC on one group and the SRMs on another, more or less. The ER PPC isn't so much for sniping as it is for brawling support to the AC. The SRM4s fire considerably faster/tighter than the 6s, which make them more or less kind of even out on a build like this as secondary firepower.

It's not exactly a meta Atlas, but I think this would be a far more durable build than the other design with some improved firepower overall, to boot.

PS: Remember, the legs use ammo last, so while there is ammo in the right torso here, it will get used first, so hopefully you'll expend most of it before it's a problem in that section.

Edited by Victor Morson, 05 February 2014 - 10:13 PM.

[GhostWalkn]

What I'm thinking is actually keeping the armored arms and just putting more ammo on the arms. Likely I'll spill 3 tons of ultra AC and still be standing and if the arms are still there, that's fine.

If 2 tons just blew up suddenly on a leg I'm pretty much dead. But if lose the lasers, I can live with that. There's still collateral damage to the chest but I don't want to put the ammo in the chest where my main weapons are and I think people will target the chest or legs.

So why armor the arms if nobody will shoot them anyway? Well it's not like I can take that armor and bulk up other parts.

But I see he risk and I'll make that move to putting majority ammo in the arms, sparing 1 ton on each leg in case I DO lose my ammo with an arm.

Edited by GhostWalkn, 06 February 2014 - 08:58 AM.

[Modo44]

Unless you go heavily underarmored (way below the side torso value), people who aim will shoot the Atlas' side torsos 99% of the time. Arms and legs is where the ammo goes. Consider this.

[CygnusX7]

AS7-D AC20 2mL 2LL LRM10x2 STD320

Running anything other than STD engine and an AC20 is a bad idea.
I still prefer an SRM16 over LRM's but thats just me.

Edited by CygnusX7, 06 February 2014 - 10:21 AM.

[luxebo]

Void Angel, on 05 February 2014 - 09:19 PM, said:

PS: PLEASE STOP POSTING THE WHOLE SCREEN SHOT. It's more trouble for you, and it makes your posts more cumbersome to read - just hit Smurfy's Share and Save button and paste the URL onto your text with the Link button on the posting toolbar.

Seconding this even though I mentioned it earlier. Better to do this instead, and also good to create an account/download Li Song's mechlab to be able to properly save your builds.

[Suicidal Baby]

CygnusX7, on 06 February 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

AS7-D AC20 2mL 2LL LRM10x2 STD320

Running anything other than STD engine and an AC20 is a bad idea.
I still prefer an SRM16 over LRM's but thats just me.

My Uac's disagree with your statement.

Better range, better burst, more ammo, and a fraction of your miss penalty.

Edited by Suicidal Baby, 06 February 2014 - 07:46 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Suicidal Baby, on 06 February 2014 - 07:42 PM, said:

My Uac's disagree with your statement.

Better range, better burst, more ammo, and a fraction of your miss penalty.

In exchange for lost twist potential (as you need to face them more) and jam potentials

Don't get me wrong, I run UAC myself, but that does not make them outright better - esp if they have mastered the twist.