80 replies to this topic

[FactorlanP]

I still use, and still like the AC20.

I used to use a lot of Gauss rifles, but ever since they lowered its health down to nothing, it blows up too easily for my tastes.

If they gave the Gauss a couple more hit points, I would probably start using them again.

[Grendel408]

Praslek2, on 05 February 2014 - 06:07 AM, said:

TL;DR The AC20 has been removed from the game by the speed nerf. The gauss rifle has been removed from the game by the charge nerf...

Where does this leave us?

Gauss and AC20, two of the most iconic Battletech weapons, have effectively been nerfed out of the game...

These two weapons are far from broken. They have been balanced as the Devs see fit (not that it's correct in some opinions) to better incorporate their proper usage... AC/20... close-range-in-your-face weapon... not good past 500 meters... Gauss... long-range-i'm-gonna-snipe-you weapon (also good at close range 100+ meters), not worth firing past 1200 meters... neither are broken. I've killed plenty with my YLW AC/20 (hell I bagged 5 kills last night in a match, Lights and Mediums suffered!) FEAR THE WANG! LOL! But really dude... if the projectile moves slower, you lead your target more... if the projectile is faster, lead your target less. Much like firing a real pistol or rifle. Also consider the farther your target (with standard AC's) the more that projectile will drop from it's targeted area, much like a real bullet or shell would do. Lastly... Gauss with their charging requirement now... keep it on a separate firing group... you'll have more control over it, and keep an eye on your reticle for that weapon group, it changes color letting you know when it's ready for another cycle to fire.

[Ordellus]

Praslek2, on 05 February 2014 - 06:07 AM, said:

TL;DR The AC20 has been removed from the game by the speed nerf. The gauss rifle has been removed from the game by the charge nerf.

Try to hit a target who is moving randomly at 300 metres with an AC20.

It's almost impossible with the slow projectile speed.

The AC20 has become a point-blank weapon against everything except absolutely stationary targets.

I tried replacing it with a gauss rifle and I found that, inevitably, the gauss charge is lost about two thirds of the time because you just can't hear it if anyone is firing, and the charge is only available for an extremely short time.

This makes the gauss a totally unacceptable replacement.

Where does this leave us?

Gauss and AC20, two of the most iconic Battletech weapons, have effectively been nerfed out of the game.

This means that an Atlas pilot cannot take an AC20 anymore, not without enormous sacrifices in effectiveness.

It's pretty strange when we're playing what is supposedly a MechWarrior game and an AC20 is less effective than a double AC2, and an AC20 hits so rarely that a pair of LB10-X's do better concentrated damage because they actually hit what they're aimed at.

What's really disturbing is that you just cannot make a really good Atlas build anymore: nobody needs to be afraid of the Atlas, because it can always be outdone by a different mech.

I use dual guass all the time, and do consistently ok with it.... you just suck, practice more and you'll get it

[Dramborleg]

Use the indicator a centimeter away from the center of your screen to tell you when the Gauss is armed. Also yeah it's hard to hit with the AC20 outside 300m, because the effective range of the weapon is 270. It's meant to be a high-risk/high-reward weapon that goes well with brawling builds and poorly with anti-light ones. If you have no idea how to use it then don't use it, but many people play incredible games with a weapon that immediately delivers 20 damage to a specific section.

[Alex Warden]

Prezimonto, on 08 February 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

I do better than my average with both of these weapons, even after the nerfs. I suggest using the Gauss to snipe and the AC20 for short range (270m and down) brawling.

which are exactly the intended roles for both of them

honestly, both weapons work fine if used properly... gauss might not be a weapon for everyone anymore (means: not a snapshot-allrange-highpower-lowskill-noheat gun), and that is actually good

btw, it also works pretty well on medium range from second line... it needs PRACTICE, that´s all

Edited by Alex Warden, 06 March 2014 - 08:27 PM.

[Delas Ting Usee]

The AC 20 is fine as is.
The Gauss on the other hand is still terrible.
I wonder what the stats on the gauss is now as I hardly or rarely see anyone use it anymore.
How many people still use the gauss?
PGI might have successfully nerfed it to extinction; except for a tiny number of pilots who excel at it of course.

Edited by Delas Ting Usee, 06 March 2014 - 08:46 PM.

[Kjudoon]

Funny. I'm a horrible shot with the AC20, and it's too short range, but I'm pretty darn good with Gauss Rifles and have no problem syncing them with PPCs, LPLs or LLs.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Praslek2, on 05 February 2014 - 06:07 AM, said:

Try to hit a target who is moving randomly at 300 metres with an AC20.

It's almost impossible with the slow projectile speed.

...and an AC20 hits so rarely that a pair of LB10-X's do better concentrated damage because they actually hit what they're aimed at.

You really need more practice if this is why you think the AC20 is useless. It's definitely different than it was and it was definitely downgraded from it's very powerful status, but seriously....practice with them. I can still hit targets at 700m with an AC20 while they are moving. You learn the dropoff and how far to lead simply through practice just like anything else.

I'm not even going to touch the Gauss complaint. That is just silly. Practice with it for a bit and you'll see it is a beast of a weapon (even solo-rigged).

Otherwise all I can say is:

"I don't think you are playing the same game I am." ^®

Edited by Lukoi, 06 March 2014 - 08:49 PM.

[Vanguard319]

I use the Gauss rifle occasionally on a few of my mechs. The charging feature means it is best used as a long range precision weapon, while being at a severe disadvantage in close range; if you're using it for brawling up close, then you're doing it wrong.
I generally don't waste slugs on light mechs, unless their charging me head on, or I catch one standing still, everything else, I can generally find the lead on the target. I rarely use AC/20s, but I have had some success with them as well, they are the opposite of the Gauss: being very good in close range combat, and not being so hot at longer ranges.

Neither weapon is hardly unusable by any measure, there are simply players who have the patience and aim to make good use of them, and there are players who can't use them and then scream it's the weapons fault they don't have good aim.

Edited by Vanguard319, 06 March 2014 - 09:05 PM.

[Zerberus]

As a regular user of both that has absolutely no problems with either, I almost fell over laughing when I read the thread title.....

I think my opinion is clear just from thjat, but if not:

Both are absolutely fine, learn to play. Dead serious.

Either that, or we are most certainly not playing the same game. FTR, Mine is MW:O, downloadable under www.mwomercs.com , curiously enough the same site that hosts these forums.

Seriously, try them in MW:O, you`ll like them.

Edited by Zerberus, 06 March 2014 - 11:50 PM.

[psihius]

I can understand the TS talking about the AC/20, although I don't support. At least there are no more tons of dual AC/20 jaggers and tons of AC/20 powered mech's. Still, this is debateable.

But the gaus? C'mon, Gaus is in the right spot, it is not intended for the close-up brawls. I quite happily exploit my dual gaus jagger to wreak havoc by supporting the team and critically damaging or taking out targets. In fact, in a week when I started rolling it, I managed to skill up to the level when I was able to take out a specific location on any mech medium size and bigger from 600-700 meters easily. I got so many components and stuff blown, that with the damage score 3 times lower than on my team I've got top scores on the team for efficiency.

This is what it means skill. And the fact is, you can't ride any mech with any build in MWO like a pro. One way or the other your personal play style limits you with one set of mech's and the other set makes you feel like you are the god of destruction. For instance, in my case my mech's are: Stalker, Hunchback, Jagermech, Catapult. On the other side all phoenix pack mech's just don't agree with me. Well, I've got shadowhawks trained somehow and griffins are growing on me, but they require some hardcore misery to go through until you get the hang of them and it does not come back easily after you take a break from them. Some other mech's are just not for me to play.

So, my point is, these are not weapons - I think AC/20 and Gaus are pretty balanced now and people riding them are usually not the regular casual player. What many should realize - you need to look for the mech's you are good at.
I know, for instance, that an AC/5 x 4 Jagermech is a mech I can ride like a pro anytime - I've was not playing that mech' for 3 months and a few days ago decided to unpack it. In the first match I have taken out 5 enemies, 3 of them on my own and did over 650 damage. And it continued like that for the whole evening. Griffins where still a pita to ride, despite me being on a roll in a Jagger.

[Foxfire]

Hrm.. a short ranged brawler weapon has had a change to make sure it is best suited for short range brawling... who'da thunk?

There was simply too much of an overlap damage wise between the AC/20 and AC/10 at anything but the extreme ranges of the AC/10 for the 20 to remain as is.

[Wintersdark]

StaggerCheck, on 05 February 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

Pair your Gauss rifle with one or two Large Lasers or ER Large Lasers on the same weapon column. When the Lasers end their duration, the Gauss should be ready to release [fire]. You can actually use your lasers as a form or correction tracer to give better chances for your Gauss rifle hits.

That's actually really clever. Props for a neat idea

Personally, I have no problem with the charge mechanic. It does make hitting poptarts a lot harder than it used to be, but honestly the absurdly fast projectile speed makes up for a lot: It's practically a hit-scan weapon now.

[PappySmurf]

Well maybe Praslek2 was from the older PC MechWarrior like me? Back when a AC20-UAC20-CLBX20-X2 would even knock a Dahishi on its butt. Most mech pilots would avoid the big brawler mechs because it was suicide under 350 meters unless you had a big brawling mechs of your own .Now in MWO the large caliber AC20 cant even rock a mech backwards.

The gauss riffle still works but its a pain in the aass to use.

Back in MW4 the big guns were much better as in knockdown power but they had about the same damage as MWO's AC20 gun.

Edited by PappySmurf, 08 March 2014 - 07:51 AM.

[Damon Howe]

My dual ac20 cicada disagrees with the thread title...

[Malleus011]

Ac/20s are fine in their intended role.

Gauss rifles are trash. Spend the time you would waste 'learning' their crappy mechanic on something else. Anything else.

[Bobzilla]

I felt the gauss wasn't worth It before the charge.

I didn't even notice the ac20 change really.

I don't think the gauss should have been balanced by a bs mechanic, when there are so many stats to manipulate, namely min range

[RickySpanish]

I stopped using the AC20 on my Highlander, since the nerf the sometimes weird convergence issues with the arm mounted weapons have been made way worse by the drop in speed. I've fired that thing at feet and torsi and had it fly wildly off course, this might have hit when the projectile was a bit quicker but now more often than not it just goes sailing way passed the mark. Switched to 2 UAC 5s instead. Wooo.

[Dramborleg]

Damon Howe, on 08 March 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

dual ac20 cicada

wat

post build

[Alex Warden]

Damon Howe, on 08 March 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

dual ac20 cicada

Dramborleg, on 11 March 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

wat

post build

forget it

Malleus011, on 09 March 2014 - 07:12 AM, said:

Gauss rifles are trash. Spend the time you would waste 'learning' their crappy mechanic on something else. Anything else.

matter of taste i guess... imho it was well worth the 2 matches to adapt to the new mechanics...

Edited by Alex Warden, 11 March 2014 - 11:30 PM.