52 replies to this topic

[wanderer]

Quote

Every time a game starts adding PVE elements into a PVP environment they start the down hill slide to no PVP at all. Two teams fighting PVE elements and not fighting each other. Some of the best PVP I have seen and been in were over CAP's. The Dev's need to stop focus on covering up the failures they have created and with other failure ideas and focus on making this a PVP environment that people would like to play in. Wake up Dev's and get back on track

Er...I dunno about you, but I generally use turrets firing at things as nice distractions to make my own attacks on players. If anything, it might well encourage more Assault teams to simply kill the players instead of capping cause it's easier.

[Thomas Dziegielewski]

wanderer, on 06 February 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

So if an ECM 'Mech closes to within 200m and shuts down LRMs, does the turret have other options, or will it simply go passive?

Only the LRMs are shut down. It will still be able to fire its lasers or whatever armament it has.

[Sandpit]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 06 February 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

I'm not getting into this stupid conversation again. The counters are bad, and bore from the fact that ECM is stupidly built in this game. We've had to add 5 new abilities to items that generally didn't have them, because we need Counter Measures FOR the Counter Measure.

It's counter intuitive as hell.

And this just creates balance issues.

Light mechs who have ECM are completely immune to LRM turrets. Light's without ECM are not.

A team that drops with ECM can engage at the Turrets and turn off LRM's, if a team drops without ECM they are crap out of luck.

This is not good balance. It's bad balance, and a bad item.

Make ECM a counter measure to the other electronics like it was supposed to be in the first place.

ok, was just asking you an honest question but feel free to get all bent out of shape.


Anyhow....

The turrets are a far cry from a slippery slope into no PvP. I think it's a good addition and will give those slower mechs a chance to RTB and prevent a cap race from ending a match in the first moments of the game. Should be interesting. I imagine we'll see various turtle defense strategies at first simply to test them, see how turrets works, etc. then it will settle down a bit just like most everything else does when it's first implemented into the game. I'm looking forward to see how they can affect match length

[Josef Koba]

Sandpit, on 06 February 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

ok, was just asking you an honest question but feel free to get all bent out of shape.


Anyhow....

The turrets are a far cry from a slippery slope into no PvP. I think it's a good addition and will give those slower mechs a chance to RTB and prevent a cap race from ending a match in the first moments of the game. Should be interesting. I imagine we'll see various turtle defense strategies at first simply to test them, see how turrets works, etc. then it will settle down a bit just like most everything else does when it's first implemented into the game. I'm looking forward to see how they can affect match length

I tend to agree on your latter points, Sandpit. After a week or so, it'll settle down into a nice "regular." I too am looking forward to seeing how it affects match length. In another thread (I'd quote it but I'm dumb about this) I noted that I had only seen two matches that featured turrets but in both the match slowed to a crawl. One went the entire 15 minutes. Personally, I liked this. 'Twas a good change o'pace. Though my opinion might change over time.

[Minimum Viable Effort]

I noticed, in the one game I got to shoot a turret, it always hit the legs. How do the turrets select they point of aim? Do they shoot for weakened components or do they have some arbitrary point within a box. For reference I was in a Jenner on Crimson Straits.

[Deathlike]

The issue with turrets (I've only played 1 match with them, so I'm sure I'll be kinda inaccurates):

1) They share the same icon the UAV does on the minimap. Please consider creating a different one for the UAV or the turret. Sharing the same visual icon can confuse people.

2) When turrets die, the targeting reticule doesn't seem to disappear from them immediately like they do when a mech dies. This needs to be addressed despite the fact that 0% is death, it is not consistent with how targeting enemy objects should behave.

3) It seems to screw with targeting other mechs. I almost get the feeling it may have something to do with the target letter assignment code (I've seen it goto R before, and there's only 12 enemy mechs on the field). Even if its not that, I can't "properly" target the enemy mechs because there's no box indicating I'm targeting it as it goes "untargeted" (unfilled red triangle over the target) with no info. I can still get a missile lock on them (was using Streaks at the time), but this is wholly broken behavior.

[Szegedin]

Deathlike, on 06 February 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

3) It seems to screw with targeting other mechs. I almost get the feeling it may have something to do with the target letter assignment code (I've seen it goto R before, and there's only 12 enemy mechs on the field). Even if its not that, I can't "properly" target the enemy mechs because there's no box indicating I'm targeting it as it goes "untargeted" (unfilled red triangle over the target) with no info. I can still get a missile lock on them (was using Streaks at the time), but this is wholly broken behavior.

Had the same 'no target' bug occur during the last 1/3rd of a match on River City. Very unpleasant.

Even when targetting is working, its a pain to try and pick targets when they're amongst their team's turrets. It would be appreciated if we could break the info gathering rules when it comes to turrets, and have them immediately identified as a defense turret when they're targeted, with the normal delay for a detailed readout on their loadout.

And when and if they get their own radar icons, I vote for small dots that don't interfere with team icons. I must confess I can't always tell which way the flock is flowing when we're moving amongst our turrets.

[Sandpit]

Josef Koba, on 06 February 2014 - 03:11 PM, said:

I tend to agree on your latter points, Sandpit. After a week or so, it'll settle down into a nice "regular." I too am looking forward to seeing how it affects match length. In another thread (I'd quote it but I'm dumb about this) I noted that I had only seen two matches that featured turrets but in both the match slowed to a crawl. One went the entire 15 minutes. Personally, I liked this. 'Twas a good change o'pace. Though my opinion might change over time.

Eh, jsut most of the stuff I see posted is a knee jerk (which is very similar to what happens in most of the nerf and op threads) reaction. It will take a few weeks for this and some of the other changes to settle back down. We see a lot of embers rolling around at the moment and I'm sure we'll see tons more for a while. It's shiny and new so of course people want to test it out as well as play against it to develop strategies against it.

If something was broken or turrets were one shotting any mech that came around them? That's time to break out the "ehr meh gerd this is broken, fix it nao!" threads. As it is I want to see how it works in more than a handful of matches across all elos and environments before I make a judgement, but as of now they seem to be working pretty well.

[ShinVector]

Szegedin, on 06 February 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

Had the same 'no target' bug occur during the last 1/3rd of a match on River City. Very unpleasant.

Even when targetting is working, its a pain to try and pick targets when they're amongst their team's turrets. It would be appreciated if we could break the info gathering rules when it comes to turrets, and have them immediately identified as a defense turret when they're targeted, with the normal delay for a detailed readout on their loadout.

And when and if they get their own radar icons, I vote for small dots that don't interfere with team icons. I must confess I can't always tell which way the flock is flowing when we're moving amongst our turrets.

Yeah.. Got hit by the no targeting in Crimson as well among Turrets.. Have a video of it.
Thought point your cross hair at the enemy mech and pressing R would prioritise focus on that but nope... Nothing.. No focus.. No targeting info...

[ShinVector]

Sandpit, on 06 February 2014 - 07:01 PM, said:

Eh, jsut most of the stuff I see posted is a knee jerk (which is very similar to what happens in most of the nerf and op threads) reaction. It will take a few weeks for this and some of the other changes to settle back down. We see a lot of embers rolling around at the moment and I'm sure we'll see tons more for a while. It's shiny and new so of course people want to test it out as well as play against it to develop strategies against it.

If something was broken or turrets were one shotting any mech that came around them? That's time to break out the "ehr meh gerd this is broken, fix it nao!" threads. As it is I want to see how it works in more than a handful of matches across all elos and environments before I make a judgement, but as of now they seem to be working pretty well.

Or give NARC or ECM a function that make enemy turrets go haywire and shoot any one around them... That would be fun. LOL...

[KIUN3]

This could be the momment for Command Console to start doing something.
- create ghost targets for enemy turrets?
- share targetting info with own turrets?
- boost own turrets targetting?
- prioritize own target for friendly turrets in range?

[Sandpit]

KIUN3, on 08 February 2014 - 04:40 PM, said:

This could be the momment for Command Console to start doing something.
- create ghost targets for enemy turrets?
- share targetting info with own turrets?
- boost own turrets targetting?
- prioritize own target for friendly turrets in range?

good suggestions!

THIS should actually have its own thread. You should post it in feature suggestions sir. (Just don't bother with a poll, those things get trolled too much)
Seriously, make your own thread with these ideas and suggestions.

[White Bear 84]

Tichorius Davion, on 05 February 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

Turrets have better teamwork than 75% of the PUG teams I have encountered.