29 replies to this topic

[Dekson]

Well, this 'Mech is only hours old at this point and I'm pretty confident, this is the meta build for it - http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4930f9fce4b2858

In a bad game, where I get over confident, I still typically manage 200+ damage and a couple assists. Typically I'm averaging 400 to 500. Thus far my best match in Gamebreaker is a 910 damage with 3 kills and 7 assists.

I love this 'Mech. The speed, survivability, weapons, and jump jets make this an absolute beast. If you see me on the battlefield, do whatever it takes to keep me from getting at your rear armor, cause I will open it up and the MGs will tear you apart.

In the right hands, this is one of the most dangerous 'Mechs. I cannot wait for the standard variants. I didn't think I was going to like this one, but I'm absolutely blown away at how much fun I am having.

[TercieI]

Pretty sure that's not the meta build. It has at least two major design problems:

1. You took armor off the legs. Never do that on a light.

2. You have 15 slots left and don't have FF. If you add it, you get your leg armor back and a 5th JJ.

[FireSlade]

Yeah about the meta builds, I am seeing more AC5s, and AC2s than 4ML and 4MG sensible builds with more speed. It is funny since everyone calls any light that goes slower than 120kph DOA but they all seem to be doing it with the Firestarter. I was even in a match today where my OR1-K was out running one on the enemy team. As for mine I am going to run this with 2 Flamers and 2MLs + 4MGs. Seems sacrilege to run a Firestarter named Ember without Flamers.

[Ertur]

You mean EMBER.
Ditto what has already been said: don't strip armor from legs on lights. That's what everyone is shooting at.

[TercieI]

Ertur, on 05 February 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

You mean EMBER.
Ditto what has already been said: don't strip armor from legs on lights. That's what everyone is shooting at.

IMO, for the same reason, ammo shouldn't be there. I've got one in the head and one in a ST (along with all the JJ to minimize ammo explosion chance). Otherwise, that's my build and the "default" build on Ember. One of those mechs that just seemed to build itself.

Edited by Terciel1976, 05 February 2014 - 10:18 PM.

[CrashieJ]

actually the Ember is pretty underpowered compared to other lighter mechs such as the Spider and Jenner due to it's larger size and valid hitboxes.

I was able to smash it's leg in mid-air a few times as Embers tried to JJ out of range.

Great mech? Sure, if you like fast-action and can actually evade (not a hard thing to do I might add).
Overpowered Game Breaker? heck no, the Pilot is OP, not the mech.

[Nasinil]

Ammo in legs on a light mech... madness

[Hexenhammer]

Ember is OP? Cool story bro.

-Misery

[Ertur]

Terciel1976, on 05 February 2014 - 10:18 PM, said:

IMO, for the same reason, ammo shouldn't be there. I've got one in the head and one in a ST (along with all the JJ to minimize ammo explosion chance). Otherwise, that's my build and the "default" build on Ember. One of those mechs that just seemed to build itself.

You're right, of course, I just took his link and fixed the armor. Mine has the ammo placed like yours.

[Victor Morson]

The 9S will be the competitive model, not the 9E. Twin AMS + 7 Energy Hardpoints = Youch.

You'll pretty much see (+2x AMS to all)

4 Meds
5 Meds
4 Meds 3 Smalls
3 Meds 4 Smalls
7 SPL

... and any mix of ratios of those. The 8th energy hardpoint on the 9E is practically a waste (way too hot to use it) and that 2nd AMS is super overpowered on the 9S.

Edited by Victor Morson, 13 February 2014 - 10:41 AM.

[Ertur]

7SPL+2AMS+2Ammo=10 Tons. Leaving 1.5, so 1DHS and 1JJ. Anything with less than max engine is DOA with a 90M range. 40% heat (1DHS), 1JJ, 24 damage.
4ML+3SL+2AMS+2Ammo+2DHS+1JJ. Leaves .5 tons unaccounted for and no crits left. Need to remove .25 worth of something to ditch FF. Or take 1SPL instead of an SL for a little more heat and damage. Or take 3 more JJ instead of a DHS. 29 damage or so, inside of 90 meters, 37% or so heat (with 2DHS).
4SL+3ML, no point in looking at this; why put best weapons in worst place? Very disadvantaged build.
4 or 5ML builds start at near parity with JR7-F builds, with less damage and comparable heat (4ML obviously cooler, but obviously with substantially less damage). Only bonus is the dual AMS.
Yeah, it'll have a place. Yeah, it's ok. Yeah, I'd hate to run into one if I'm in an Oxide, COM-2D, or other missile heavy build. But, no, it's not all that and a bag of chips. And we'll still see Jenners.

[RiotHero]

I'm keeping my Jenners and not considering a Firestarter until I see one actually do something noteworthy. Every one I've seen has done this same thing. Hide behind their assault/heavies then run out and get behind the lone enemy that is in a fight with 2 or more people and pump damage into their backs while they are distracted.

It's hard to judge how well the mech is until you see it do anything at all that requires even the smallest amount of skill. This play style that they all use can be done in any light mech. No game breaker there and I have yet to find one in game that will dog fight when I'm in my light so I can't even decide based on that.

[Bhelogan]

It's become my favorite light. I run mine a little different: EMBER after quite a bit of tweaking.
I sacrafice some JJ, and switch to ML down to SL to keep the armor up and still have 3 tons of MG ammo (which I usually need) and AMS. You don't have to hide behind your big mechs in this thing (though you don't want to run off solo). It is a very effective brawler.

Edited by Bhelogan, 16 February 2014 - 06:02 AM.

[ImperialKnight]

Errrmm...

[Motroid]

Ember is mediocre because of one reason. Its size. Nearly as big as a Cicada. Jenner and Spider both outclass the Ember.
So it happens once in a while that I miss a shot on a fly-by SDR or JR7 but it never happens on FS9. They are just too easy to hit.
Nah, not really but i feel a big diffrence....

[Novawrecker]

Motroid, on 16 February 2014 - 06:31 AM, said:

Ember is mediocre because of one reason. Its size. Nearly as big as a Cicada. Jenner and Spider both outclass the Ember.

Outclass? Way too exaggerative of a word. I think the Firestarter is on par with Jenner. Both have their pros and cons which pretty much evens them out with each other.

Spider on the other hand, its broken hit box registry make it outclass almost any of the lights (Hey, PGI! Fix this shtako already!!!)

Edited by Novawrecker, 16 February 2014 - 09:52 AM.

[RiotHero]

This round I killed two fairly fresh ones and still went on to get four more kills.





Even if it is slightly better than the Jenner, and I'm not convinced it is, it is still such a tiny margin that it comes down to only the pilot. So what if it has a ton of hardpoints? they are mostly unusable because of either heat or weight. On top of that the arms are easier to lose, you have torso and arm weapons to deal with lining up, less slots to use, and less extra heatsink slots with a 295 engine cap.

[1453 R]

RiotHero, on 16 February 2014 - 10:17 AM, said:

Even if it is slightly better than the Jenner, and I'm not convinced it is, it is still such a tiny margin that it comes down to only the pilot.

I actually concur with this. I do believe the Firestarter in general (if not necessarily the FS9-E in specific) makes a better laser platform in the lightweight bracket than the JR7-F, but it's a close enough competition that someone who preferred/already has a ton of experience with Jenners could keep up well enough. That said...:

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So what if it has a ton of hardpoints? they are mostly unusable because of either heat or weight.

Untrue. I have yet to encounter a situation with the Firestarters where I couldn't fit the armament I wanted on the machine due to crit/weight limitations. I can't usually get all six jump jets on there, but you know? Jenner pilots these days rarely take more than two jets themselves; I feel I'm doing good with four.

Note: this holds for Sensible and Logical armaments. You're not allowed to snark about the Firestarter's weight limitations if you're trying to cram an AC/10 on there and then claiming it's hard.

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On top of that the arms are easier to lose

Better an arm than the entire 'Mech.

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you have torso and arm weapons to deal with lining up

Which also means you have the extra speed and firing arc of actuated arm-mounted weapons to help you when you need it.

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less slots to use

A legitimate advantage of the Jenner, though it comes at the cost of those actuated arms I just mentioned.

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and less extra heatsink slots with a 295 engine cap

Also a legitimate advantage of the Jenner, and its most telling one.

Overall, the JR7-F has an advantage in its ability to carry more heat sinks than, say, an FS9-S can mount, thus allowing it to run cooler and for longer. The FS9, however, is going to be more generally durable (especially the FS9-S! DOUBLE AMS, DOUBLE SUCCESS), and can carry a more diverse range of armaments than the JR7-F can. Mobility is a wash between the two of them - anyone who claims that the JR7's five extra engine rating is any help in the mobility department rather than just for the heat sink slot is clearly stretching for it.

I feel like the FS9 is going to become the new premier light 'Mech, especially with SRM hit detection currently being weird, but the JR7 will continued to hold onto its pilots pretty well. The two are similar enough that an experienced Jenner pilot won't usually feel the need to switch over. Unless, y'know, they want eight small pulse lasers. Or four machine guns for comedic pack-bulletkakke runs where your lance of Embers unloads sixteen machine guns on a hapless JagerMech and titters. I've done that (on accident). It was highly amusing.

[RiotHero]

1453 R, on 16 February 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

...

Which also means you have the extra speed and firing arc of actuated arm-mounted weapons to help you when you need it.


...

Overall, the JR7-F has an advantage in its ability to carry more heat sinks than, say, an FS9-S can mount, thus allowing it to run cooler and for longer. The FS9, however, is going to be more generally durable (especially the FS9-S! DOUBLE AMS, DOUBLE SUCCESS), and can carry a more diverse range of armaments than the JR7-F can. Mobility is a wash between the two of them - anyone who claims that the JR7's five extra engine rating is any help in the mobility department rather than just for the heat sink slot is clearly stretching for it.

I feel like the FS9 is going to become the new premier light 'Mech, especially with SRM hit detection currently being weird, but the JR7 will continued to hold onto its pilots pretty well. The two are similar enough that an experienced Jenner pilot won't usually feel the need to switch over. Unless, y'know, they want eight small pulse lasers. Or four machine guns for comedic pack-bulletkakke runs where your lance of Embers unloads sixteen machine guns on a hapless JagerMech and titters. I've done that (on accident). It was highly amusing.

First I will give you the better firing arc but, it is only 5 degrees difference I believe. This may let you aim a slight bit more behind you when running or something. One thing I will not agree on is the speed. I don't doubt that it can aim slightly faster with the arms but, it is completely unnecessary. The Jenner D(S) was my very first mech and have had more time in Jenners than any other mech. Not once have I ever thought:"gee this thing twists so slowly I wish it had some lower arms to help me aim faster". Actually sometimes it's the opposite, it twists so fast that when I'm not paying attention I can over shoot and aim past even the fastest mechs in the game. If you can do that with torso alone you don't need lower arms.

Double ams is nice but, costs 2 tons. At this point I'm not often dying to streaks anyway. Anything that carries enough of them I can normally get away from and anything that can keep up I can leg before their spread damage kills me. Machine guns can work for team play but, I solo pug and have not found any use for something I have to hold on the target for that long. 8 SPL would be fun but, at the cost of 8 tons. You will still end up with less range, less alpha, more heat, and less sustained dps than a 5/6 ML Jenner. I can't wait until people start trying 8ML versions. Especially those that don't know about ghost heat. All I know is the further I've went from hot builds the better my scores have become. Also very few of my mechs make use of all of the hardpoints, in nearly every case running cooler has yielded better results.

Finally I don't have any reason yet to believe the Firestarter is more durable. If you just look at how much wider and taller it is you can see this. Also it's legs are much taller and deeper than the Jenner's. Plus where the legs are higher than the Jenners is the worst possible spot because it is at the thickest point making it that much easier to hit. Yes the Jenner has a CT that is bigger front to back but, it is also skinny and I would guess that overall the Firestarter has more surface area to hit than the Jenner with the same armor.

[Enigmos]

I saw one H variant yesterday sporting a Gauss. He was the last guy down on their team.