61 replies to this topic

[PhoenixFire55]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 February 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

So well formed posts and petitions I would be all behind, but the constant flood of whining and uninformed QQ on this site will do nothing to achieve change.

They don't care for our feedback and well formed suggestions. How many suggestions that players made over last 2 years did they use? None. I've seen some truly great ideas (take Homeless Bill for one).

Yet somehow its this general background humming whine that does the trick. Because ...

Paul: Hey Russ, today there are 67 new threads asking to nerf Gausscat. Maybe we should do smth, eh?
Russ: Go ahead, eh.

Paul: Hey Russ, there are 1526 rage-quit-because-stomped-by-premade threads on forums. Maybe we should do smth, eh?
Russ: Go ahead, eh.

Paul: Hey Russ, Garth has been one-shotted in his Cicada 17 times today by 6PPC Stalkers. Maybe we should do smth, eh?
Russ: Go ahead, eh.

It takes months of constant whining for them to realize smth is broken it seems. And it seems they only read whine threads with no constructive ideas, because they always come up with even more broken solutions.

[PhoenixFire55]

Reno Blade, on 07 February 2014 - 02:36 AM, said:

Please be sure to back up your "lies" by proof if you call someone lier.

You got me Reno. I totally remembered testing it out and doing that right after ghost heat was implemented. But I also totally forgot that PPC heat went up since then. Mybad...

PhoenixFire55, on 07 February 2014 - 02:24 AM, said:

Lies. You can alpha 6 PPCs without shutting down. 7 PPCs shutdown time is about 5 seconds.

... so please Nick ignore this comment. Apologies.

[Deathz Jester]

[Reno Blade]

My approach to balancing would be brutal and probably too much for most, but here it is described with nice little graphs about DPS, HPS, and all the other values you can think of about ballisics:
http://mwomercs.com/...istic-tweaking/

If only changing ballistics, this is what I'd take as my goal:


But if you want to whole picture, I'd go this route with more changes over the board with ranges and speeds for all weapons:

[Craig Steele]

PhoenixFire55, on 07 February 2014 - 02:27 AM, said:

And exactly what in OP do you find so irrational?

I read the OP as

opinon - hate

opinion - hate

opinion - hate

hate , hate , hate

blah

[Turist0AT]

Oh No. This doesnt sound good. Can somone take away the nerf hammer from PGI pls. They are swinging it like kids.

[R Razor]

Turist0AT, on 07 February 2014 - 03:35 AM, said:

Oh No. This doesnt sound good. Can somone take away the nerf hammer from PGI pls. They are swinging it like kids.

The irony here is that, while you were trying to be funny, you are actually quite accurate.......it is kids (and those with a child like mentality) that think the current meta of PPC/AC is what Battletech fans were looking for when they read about this awesome "Simulation" (more like COD with stompy robots that aren't really robots) that PGI was making.

[Joseph Mallan]

Metadavion, on 06 February 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

So how many times is Paul going to attempt to balance the game and prevent OP builds until he realizes he can't. Right now he sits to nerf victors and highlanders, but I have a feeling he's going to punish other chassis. Or he's going to end up punishing the mechs beyond redemption.

We have 1.4 dubs and clan dubs because 3 second jenners.

We have Ghost heat because PPC boating, but its still here.

We have Gauss charge because of poptarts, still here.

We have a hardpoint system that does not prevent K2's from dual gaussing. Or shoving ppc into small laser holes.


Meanwhile half the guns in the game don't even function, SRMs, Flamers, Pulse Lasers, AC10.

You had me up to the Dual Gauss. Hard Points prevent me from having 15 machine guns(piranha I'm looking at you), or 20 Medium lasers on my (F)Atlas. Replacing an entire payload with a new payload is doable. If a Chassis that is built as a missile boat normally can be made a PPC payload, I can take my Catapult to the factory and have it Pimped to carry 2 Gauss. You don't know if I went to the Factory or to Xzibit to Pimp My Ride. There is a family (in Game) that can mod Mechs out to be able to gymnastics and they sponsor Mech Football, Baseball, Gymnastic competitions, dance competitions. We don't have the full map so we don't have a means of verifying where and who made our mods, we don't have a calender so cannot prove I took 4 months to get Endo and an XL engine installed between Launchs. So suspend disbelief in a game that does not have a way to determine travel times and Customization times.

[Para B]

Every time I come back to MW:O to see if it has become more than deathmatch with ridiculously unbalanced weapons and mechs I soon enough quit again.

It's just not fun for someone not interested in playing to the latest Meta or gaming the game by using broken mechanics.

Oh well, see you guys in a couple of months.

[Craig Steele]

Para B, on 07 February 2014 - 04:51 AM, said:

Every time I come back to MW:O to see if it has become more than deathmatch with ridiculously unbalanced weapons and mechs I soon enough quit again.

It's just not fun for someone not interested in playing to the latest Meta or gaming the game by using broken mechanics.

Oh well, see you guys in a couple of months.

I suspect this view is significantly more than most forum posters think it is.

The key words being "It's not fun"

We all have a different view of what "fun" is sure, but I look at my friends list and see how many are still playing, its not a big percentage.

[Bishop Steiner]

PhoenixFire55, on 07 February 2014 - 02:41 AM, said:

They don't care for our feedback and well formed suggestions. How many suggestions that players made over last 2 years did they use? None. I've seen some truly great ideas (take Homeless Bill for one).

Yet somehow its this general background humming whine that does the trick. Because ...

Paul: Hey Russ, today there are 67 new threads asking to nerf Gausscat. Maybe we should do smth, eh?
Russ: Go ahead, eh.

Paul: Hey Russ, there are 1526 rage-quit-because-stomped-by-premade threads on forums. Maybe we should do smth, eh?
Russ: Go ahead, eh.

Paul: Hey Russ, Garth has been one-shotted in his Cicada 17 times today by 6PPC Stalkers. Maybe we should do smth, eh?
Russ: Go ahead, eh.

It takes months of constant whining for them to realize smth is broken it seems. And it seems they only read whine threads with no constructive ideas, because they always come up with even more broken solutions.

curious, because the hitbox readjustments seem to be specifically in line (though not perfect) with the very well reasoned thread Carrion Crows put out. In fact what they said despite the ways it has been twisted ever since is not that they don't read posts and ideas, but that they tune out post by 1000 QQ posts guy. Because (shocker) the guy is just going to complain about anything and everything. Like plenty of the people on here.

[Bishop Steiner]

Reno Blade, on 07 February 2014 - 02:53 AM, said:

My approach to balancing would be brutal and probably too much for most, but here it is described with nice little graphs about DPS, HPS, and all the other values you can think of about ballisics:
http://mwomercs.com/...istic-tweaking/

If only changing ballistics, this is what I'd take as my goal:


But if you want to whole picture, I'd go this route with more changes over the board with ranges and speeds for all weapons:

yeah...... not a fan of making it papercut warrior online.. 8 damage for an ac20? Ew.

Of course, sans convergence, with a slowed RoF for most weapons (like the RoF in MW3 or 4) and sized hardpoints, one could actually probably get back to stock armor. Making all the weapons les powerful is not the answer. Removing pinpoint accuracy (enhanced with poptarts using armlock) and ridiculous RoFs on many weapons would solve half the problems. Not allowing Gauss Rifles squeezed into machine gun slots would cure more. And making JJs scale 180 degrees different from the current, with the last JJ adding more thrust than the first, as opposed to the broken JJs we have now would do the rest.

Yes, an ac20 in the back would still splay a light....boohoo. It's supposed to. But it would also allow a mech like the Panther to be viable because a Light Mech with a single PPC would actually be scary again,.

[Reno Blade]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 February 2014 - 06:00 AM, said:

yeah...... not a fan of making it papercut warrior online.. 8 damage for an ac20? Ew.

Its 12 damage for AC20 and 8 for the UAC20 with higher RoF.
But my balancing was by normalizing the curves for DPS, HPS and so on (see the linked thread).
My first take on the number tweak had the cooldown of the big ACs up to 5-6 sec and that was too slow, so I changed the damage to keep a fast firing weapon.

[Joseph Mallan]

Craig Steele, on 07 February 2014 - 04:58 AM, said:

I suspect this view is significantly more than most forum posters think it is.

The key words being "It's not fun"

We all have a different view of what "fun" is sure, but I look at my friends list and see how many are still playing, its not a big percentage.

Well after a year of playing around in only a basic combat mechanic without the proper level of rewards how long would anyone stick around? Unless the only reason you play is to kill the enemy.

[Roland]

R Razor, on 07 February 2014 - 04:30 AM, said:

The irony here is that, while you were trying to be funny, you are actually quite accurate.......it is kids (and those with a child like mentality) that think the current meta of PPC/AC is what Battletech fans were looking for when they read about this awesome "Simulation" (more like COD with stompy robots that aren't really robots) that PGI was making.

I'm not sure if maybe you have never played a mechwarrior game, or even the popular shooters like CoD.

This game is really nothing like COD. It's far slower paced.

Likewise, it plays very, very similarly to all prior mechwarrior titles.

If you never played Mechwarrior, and only played battletech... then ya, you might not be real into it. It's not a table top strategy game. It's also not a hard core flight sim.

Mechwarrior is, and has ALWAYS been, a shooter with sim elements... it's akin to old school games like Tie Fighter, or Wing Commander in this way.

And ultimately, people with poor shooter skills are going to be bad at it... and that's just the way it is. Frankly, people with bad shooter skills would be bad at driving real battlemechs too.

[Bishop Steiner]

Reno Blade, on 07 February 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

Its 12 damage for AC20 and 8 for the UAC20 with higher RoF.
But my balancing was by normalizing the curves for DPS, HPS and so on (see the linked thread).
My first take on the number tweak had the cooldown of the big ACs up to 5-6 sec and that was too slow, so I changed the damage to keep a fast firing weapon.

Interesting. I would have thought it too slow to, yet when I played MW4 again, in no time you got used to it. But it did require PPCs and others to have a longer cooldown too. I just dislike the ticky tack weapon fire where you have to nail another mech 30 frikking times. And on of the design concepts that I appreciate in MWO (despite the many flaws) is the focus on different damage types to give distinct feels to energy weapons vs ballistics vs missiles.

IMO, the issue is not the front loaded damage. That is a symptom. I listed the problems in my post, as many others have int eh past. Convergence really is the heart of the issue. Pinpoint accuracy, to a lesser degree. (Yes I believe that when a mech is Jumping, or running at near max throttle, there SHOULD be a CoF effect. I also feel high heat and shooting beyond TT optimal ranges should have one. There is nothing "skill" overall about picking a pixel with a perfectly still reticle, and clicking on it. That just takes slow dps mouse options). It is exacerbated by the nearly unlimited customization which really has taken the "role" concept away from most chassis. Etc.

Guess I would like to see the underlying sickness addressed, not just it's symptoms. And reduced RoF would be a part of the cure.

[Thanatos676]

What happened to this thread? It was full of trolling then it calmed down..

[Sandpit]

Rehabilitation

[Alaskan Nobody]

They started wearing pants - and the Butthurt stopped.

[Sandpit]

No, they just abandon ship once they get to K-Town because they no we no longer have to play nice and can retaliate in kind.