239 replies to this topic

[w0rm]

Joseph Mallan, on 13 February 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

I don't know. Many of the old Meta Builds were weaker versions of what TT Clan Mechs could bring to bare. The lighter more compact nature of Clan equipment means they can afford more/better on each build.

Yes but almost all announced Clanmechs come without JJ's, the lights won't be faster than ~105 kph and the restrictions on the ardpoints/engines won't allow pure minmax builds.

Edited by w0rm, 13 February 2014 - 09:11 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

w0rm, on 13 February 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

Yes but almost all announced Clanmechs come without JJ's, the lights won't be faster than ~105 kph and the restrictions on the ardpoints/engines won't allow pure minmax builds.

I would think that would be a good thing... Remember I want Clan weapons to have all the glory they had in the past, so I can fight The Clans. Not the Clans!

[Willard Phule]

Joseph Mallan, on 13 February 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

I would think that would be a good thing... Remember I want Clan weapons to have all the glory they had in the past, so I can fight The Clans. Not the Clans!

I think that when the lobby system comes out, perhaps whoever's controlling the lobby in question should have a little box to click that gives them the ability to organize based on Lance (4 man) or Star (5 man). Seems relatively simple to me....but we all know it won't be.

[Prezimonto]

MustrumRidcully, on 12 February 2014 - 11:37 PM, said:

Okay, so how do we decide whether I am Clanner or IS?
Is Clan or IS an account-wide permanent choice, and if I want to switch between Clan and IS occassionally, I need two accounts (meaning regrinding C-Bills, General XP and what not?)
Do I get a Clan and an IS Pilot to play and can pick whether I want to play Clanner or IS before each match?

And if there really will be 10vs12:
What happens with my "non-faction-appropriate mechs" - can I salvage a Clan Mech as IS player and get to part of the 12 IS player team vs 10 Clan players? My IS team suddenly has to use 0.2 mechs less or the Clan Team gets 0.2 mechs extra (however you pull that off)?
Or does using a Clan mech mean I am assumed to be a Clanner and play for the Clan faction when I am in a Clan mech? But why the twitter rhetoric about IS players salvaging Clan mechs then?

Has PGI figured out any of that yet?

My guess:

They're going to totally take any kind of setting or RP out of the equation at the account level. Clan tech will be segregated to clan side and IS tech to the IS side. Your "pilot" will mean nothing other than your account and it's unlocks and which team you end up on will be solely decided by what mechs you drop with.

My guess is that "teams" will be forced to all select mechs of a given type... so everyone better have a Clan mech if they want to drop as a Clan team.

Basically, assume the least amount of effort on their part to explain anything, and that's what we'll likely get.

Edited by Prezimonto, 13 February 2014 - 09:24 AM.

[stjobe]

Prezimonto, on 13 February 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

Basically, assume the least amount of effort on their part to explain anything, and [a half-baked, hackneyed version of] that's what we'll likely get.

FTFY.

[Ngamok]

Gaan Cathal, on 13 February 2014 - 01:17 AM, said:

You're behind the times. In MW:O Clan Mechs have less speed, less armour and slightly lighter weapons.

Seriously, the Summoner has less armour than a Hunchback, and both Lights will be plodding along at 97kph. Maybe half of the Clan mechs currently announced will escape being DoA, and two of them are in the same weight class.

Except that clan mechs will be allowed to raise their armor values per vblog 2.0 and what has been said in the past. As to engine sizes, that remains to be seen if they keep them the same or raise them by their weight factor automatically.

[Kenyon Burguess]

I think 10 vrs 12 is a bad idea all the way around. that's 2 extra dakka monsters chewing thru your center torso. last I heard MWO was gonna run enough ton per lance for 2 shadowhawks, and 2 jaegers. sounds painful.

[Khobai]

Quote

last I heard MWO was gonna run enough ton per lance for 2 shadowhawks, and 2 jaegers. sounds painful.

tonnage limits will only apply to premade groups. pugs wont be subject to tonnage limits as far as I know.

[anubis969]

Khobai, on 13 February 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

tonnage limits will only apply to premade groups. pugs wont be subject to tonnage limits as far as I know.

That is how tonnage limits were going to work but back in December PGI announced that they were changing their plans for tonnage limits. The current plan is for tonnage limits to apply to the team as a whole, friend and stranger alike. That way the MM can focus on balancing matches by Elo while leaving tonnage up to the players.

For more detailed info have a read of the link below, most notably the section on public matches:
http://mwomercs.com/...-launch-module/

Edited by anubis969, 13 February 2014 - 10:07 AM.

[FupDup]

I for one welcome our old new freebirth overlords.

[Wispsy]

Lights running at 100kph will not ever be used.

Unless MASC usage is near permanent.

Edited by Wispsy, 13 February 2014 - 10:08 AM.

[FupDup]

Wispsy, on 13 February 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

Lights running at 100kph will not ever be used.

Unless MASC usage is near permanent.

Command chair says that MASC can't be added unless it is present in the base config, so prepare to bathe in the blood of Pumas and Ullers.

Edited by FupDup, 13 February 2014 - 10:11 AM.

[Wispsy]

FupDup, on 13 February 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

Command chair says that MASC can't be added unless it is present in the base config, so prepare to bathe in the blood of Pumas and Ullers.

Sure but I imagine there will be at least one base config with MASC which you can then make into a decent mech swapping arms/etc.

[FupDup]

Wispsy, on 13 February 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

Sure but I imagine there will be at least one base config with MASC which you can then make into a decent mech swapping arms/etc.

Assuming that piggy uses the Tabletop base configs, there won't be. The base Adder and Kit Fox don't have MASC so they can't ever use it on their other configs (unless piggy decides to not use stock configs for the base, which is unlikely).

Edited by FupDup, 13 February 2014 - 10:14 AM.

[stjobe]

Ngamok, on 13 February 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:

Except that clan mechs will be allowed to raise their armor values per vblog 2.0

stjobe, on 13 February 2014 - 02:38 AM, said:

Not exactly. They said in vlog2 that Clan 'mech armour can be re-distributed, but they never said explicitly that it can be increased:

Quote

We realize that the Table top armor placement is not necessarily the best armor placement for our game, so this is one of the instances where we’re going to break those rules and allow you to redistribute your armor as you see fit in order to best protect your ‘mech for our game…. But the type, whether it is going to be standard or ferro-fiborous is going to be fixed, and there won’t be any change to that.

[Texugo87]

I'm glad they are going binary vs company, it will keep the feel of the clans vs the IS more unique, and make game play more interesting.

[DONTOR]

If they try 12 vs 12 to see the effect of Clan mechs first Id be fine with 10 vs 12 eventually, given the clan mechs were actually performing better than IS mechs.

[SweetJackal]

The Flaw behind Weight Balancing is the Temptation to just "Give up and say Assault Mechs are supposed to be more effective." This is a problem as you are saying some players must suck down being less effective so that other players can be more effective.

The Flaw behind Lance vs Star is the Temptation to just say "Clan Mechs are supposed to be more effective and better in every way." This is a problem as this puts in the very arms race that invalidates IS Mechs and Tech and what PGI has said TIME AND TIME AGAIN THEY WOULD AVOID.

Why are Temptations a problem? Way back in the Closed Beta when Repair and Rearm was just a Developer's Wet Dream the testers were weighing in their opinions on what PGI was discussing. I went ahead and posted up a very long, very detailed analysis of the pitfalls of R&R, the temptations of using it to balance in-game balance of equipment and using it as a means to push premium boosts by the means of allowing a negative income to be possible from a match. I outlined the negative impact those designs would have on players as a whole, the statements those designs make and the types of behaviors it would promote.

We all know how Repair and Rearm went. It was as if PGI used my analysis as a roadmap and put in everything they could to make it as predatory and harmful as possible. Only to be shocked to find out that players hated the system and had it in the game in that state for so long that the mere mention of R&R has some forum-warrirors foaming at the mouth.

Weight Limits could give more value to mechs like the Locust compared to a Jenner or Raven by letting a Heavy or Assault upgrade a few steps. Stars vs Lances could be done in an intelligent manner that brings the lore forward into the game.

But the temptation exists to take the easy way to make the quick buck. Temptation that PGI has fallen to before. If I find myself unable to play my IS mechs, the Project Phoenix Mechs that I have bought, because the introduction of the Clans put in the Clan Tech Arms Race and completely invalidated all IS designs, just like Canon, just like they have promised since the first mentions of The Clans it wouldn't happen, then there will be hell to pay.

Worst that has happened from me so far is having myself getting fed up with the state of the game and walking away, trying it out at a later date to see if PGI got things sorted out. It will be far, far worse should this line be crossed.

[Belorion]

Craig Steele, on 12 February 2014 - 09:37 PM, said:

Absolute rubbish.

That means Clan tech will have to be superior to IS tech.

Players will gravitate to Clan mechs, player population is mostly Clan, we fight over Pentagon and Clan space, IS warfare dies.

Clan Tech is superior to IS tech period.

There is only so much equalizing they can do. A clan mech with an XL needs both side, or the CT taken out to be brought down, not just one side torso. Endo-Steel/Ferro Fibrous only consuming 7 slots, Double Heatsinks only consuming 2. There is only so much normalization they can do with LBX-2, LBX-5, LBX-20, ER-MLs, ER-SLs, UAC-2, UAC-10, UAC-20 or SSRM6's... Do to their very nature they will be better.

[Roland]

I always laugh when folks say they actually paid money to drive Clan mechs, given how we essentially have zero idea how they are going to be incorporated into the game at this point.

You midaswell have paid for magic beans.