33 replies to this topic

[Jonny Slam]

Hi gang,

first off, happy double xp weekend!

Now on to business, I have been trying to unlock the catapult and I have really been enjoying it.

The main problem I'm having is inconsistency, not between each match but in blocks. Last night I was hammering away stacking up 300 points a round, (yes not much for you guys but for Jonny that is a lot) and getting good kills for 10-20 matches and then I would hit some really cold streaks (no pun intended).

So here is my request, what tips for the best use of lrm's would you give me if I was on you lance?

Now I am not going to say "oh I know this or that" because I would like the full info-lanche you all may have. See, often if I try to skim over what I "already" know I can miss some pretty important clues.

Hope you all can help so that in the near future I can rain fiery death down on you all!

Cheers!

Note running Cats now, but would be happy for any and all lrm rig thoughts

[Victor Morson]

I wrote a guide you can find here that covers most everything to run the most effective LRM 'mechs.

What is causing the inconsistency is AMS; when it's on your target, or in the way, it makes a HUGE impact; the guide talks about ways to counter it effectively, primarily with maximizing your missiles in the initial swarm.

If you have any questions at all let me know!

[p4r4g0n]

@Johnny - There's good solid advice in that thread Victor linked from both sides of the different LRM playstyles. Definitely worth reading all the way through.

Just ignore the irrelevant bits about the personalities posting and focus on the actual LRM discussion.

[Jonny Slam]

Thanks guys going to it now

[luxebo]

What kind of Catapults are you running? (Note that most if not all Catapult LRM builds break Victor's Commandments). I would suggest following them to some extent, but not all of them can actually be followed completely (Thou shalt always stay over 88kph).

I suggest for the A1, keep a dual LRM15 quad SSRM2 build (as no TAG allowed and 6 LRM5's are not fully effective when the enemy knows how to shield away from missiles).
For C1, TAG, 3 Med lasers, and dual LRM15 also works to some extent (though for that you may as well make a poptart out of it, seen dual PPCs dual ASRM6s work wonders).
For C4, I suggest dual LRM15 dual LRM5 and TAG as it works well against AMS.

All 3 I suggested have BAP and Atermis on. You could create totally different builds from what I've, but I think these are what I think work. Use an XL of some sort, as Catapult side torsos are small.

[Jonny Slam]

Well I am grinding through the three cats required for elite, and I'm taking advantage of the dbl xp, prem time and cadet bonus.

With that in mind I have run stock, I have not spent any money so I could buy three with the c-bills

I started with the c-4, then the c1, topped both of those and then bought the K2, which of corse is a different kettle of fish entirely.

I did pull the 20's off the C4 and put em on the C1 until I had all its basics unlocked.

Now I will grind out the K2, then switch back to the C4 and start putting money into that with beagle, tag, better speed.

Thanks for the tip about the small sides on the Cat I was really hesitant to go XL, but to get over 88 I will have to and now I feel better about it.

Silly question, if I have a target locked launch, and then towards the end lose lock does that mean all the missles will miss?

Yes, how noobish, but I had to ask

[Alaskan Nobody]

Jonny Slam, on 15 February 2014 - 10:45 PM, said:

Silly question, if I have a target locked launch, and then towards the end lose lock does that mean all the missles will miss?

So long as you have the lock, the missiles will try to home in on the target - if you lose the lock, they will continue in their last trajectory.

If the target isn't moving - or is moving in the wrong directions - the missiles can still hit.
(Learning to dumbfire your missiles, IE launch them without a lock, is a very useful skill - and can help counter ECM's advantage)

[Victor Morson]

It's hard to get the Catapult up to that speed; while I'd recommend it on a faster 'mech, since you already have the cat, the C4 is definitely the best for LRMs. 2x20/15 2x5 and a TAG is a very good setup for it for sure.

[tomtom tanker]

Victor Morson, on 16 February 2014 - 03:39 AM, said:

It's hard to get the Catapult up to that speed; while I'd recommend it on a faster 'mech, since you already have the cat, the C4 is definitely the best for LRMs. 2x20/15 2x5 and a TAG is a very good setup for it for sure.

Vic, what is your usual missile boat?

[Victor Morson]

tomtom tanker, on 16 February 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

Vic, what is your usual missile boat?

Shadow Hawk 2D2 with a 15-10-5 + TAG split; 5 missiles trail on the side torso, but the initial 25 launch in the salvo with that layout.

My primary LRM 'mech


But I plan to swap to this when it's out for cbills:
Griffin LRM Skirmisher /w Arm TAG

You can move the TAG to the torso to free some more ammo at the expense of easy tags, too.

[luxebo]

Jonny Slam, on 15 February 2014 - 10:45 PM, said:

Well I am grinding through the three cats required for elite, and I'm taking advantage of the dbl xp, prem time and cadet bonus.

With that in mind I have run stock, I have not spent any money so I could buy three with the c-bills

I started with the c-4, then the c1, topped both of those and then bought the K2, which of corse is a different kettle of fish entirely.

I did pull the 20's off the C4 and put em on the C1 until I had all its basics unlocked.

Now I will grind out the K2, then switch back to the C4 and start putting money into that with beagle, tag, better speed.

Thanks for the tip about the small sides on the Cat I was really hesitant to go XL, but to get over 88 I will have to and now I feel better about it.

Silly question, if I have a target locked launch, and then towards the end lose lock does that mean all the missles will miss?

Yes, how noobish, but I had to ask

You may want to try the A1, as that is the really unique missile mech. I suggest doing a pattern similar to what Vic recommends with dual LRM 15s and dual LRM 5s with C4, or dual LRM 20s with C1.

[Jonny Slam]

Thanks Lux, I was just hesitant to take it as it had no hardpoint for TAG. I'm already breaking the 88k rule so I didn't want to double down.

I will probably buy one after I finish unlocking the type, and I have cash.

I really enjoyed the trial mech for a change, that volley of 60 from the stalker was great fun, although I now understand that it hardly had the ideal ports and sundry.

[Mycrus]

Adv sensor - detects ecm baddies from 180m to 25th

Adv decay - must have for lurmapocalypse boats

Play close support - just a tad away from your main force

600m missiles rarely hit anyway

Don't bother with bap

I personally don't mount tag on my boats... because of adv sensor

[Victor Morson]

Mycrus, on 16 February 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

Don't bother with bap

I personally don't mount tag on my boats... because of adv sensor

Adv. Sensor does not cancel ECM.
Adv. Sensor does not improve missile tracking.
Adv. Sensor does not improve missile grouping.
Adv. Sensor does not improve missile lock time.

This is terrible advice across the board. Adv. Sensor isn't awful but it's a luxury item that's important features are covered by BAP, which is far more desirable for a missile boat.

luxebo, on 16 February 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

You may want to try the A1, as that is the really unique missile mech. I suggest doing a pattern similar to what Vic recommends with dual LRM 15s and dual LRM 5s with C4, or dual LRM 20s with C1.

Yeah, I really think you can't do much better than the C4 for a Catapult. The A1 can't carry TAG which hurts it considerably, where the C4 can carry a perfect mix of BAP and missiles. It'd actually be really good if it was a little faster.

Jonny Slam, on 15 February 2014 - 10:45 PM, said:

Now I will grind out the K2, then switch back to the C4 and start putting money into that with beagle, tag, better speed.

The K2 isn't a missile 'mech but is without question the best Catapult. Definitely keep that one. It's double AC20 setup is a terror to even Jagermechs. Very unique for a Catapult and pretty awesome. Just watch out for firing both too fast and Ghost Heating.

Edited by Victor Morson, 16 February 2014 - 05:15 PM.

[luxebo]

Jonny Slam, on 16 February 2014 - 04:08 PM, said:

Thanks Lux, I was just hesitant to take it as it had no hardpoint for TAG. I'm already breaking the 88k rule so I didn't want to double down.

I will probably buy one after I finish unlocking the type, and I have cash.

I really enjoyed the trial mech for a change, that volley of 60 from the stalker was great fun, although I now understand that it hardly had the ideal ports and sundry.

The laws that are what Vic posted is not mandatory, but his advice is very good for LRMs in general. The A1 has self defense against lights, but doesn't have TAG which means it relies on Pugs as spotters, which is not that good. But it has self defense with SRMs/SSRMs. I suggest when SRMs get back from the hiatus of hit registration, you should give yourself 6 SRMs to brawl with for the fun. The Stalker is really good to troll, but it's hard to use in a proper situation.

[Mycrus]

Victor Morson, on 16 February 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

Adv. Sensor does not cancel ECM.
Adv. Sensor does not improve missile tracking.
Adv. Sensor does not improve missile grouping.
Adv. Sensor does not improve missile lock time.

This is terrible advice across the board. Adv. Sensor isn't awful but it's a luxury item that's important features are covered by BAP, which is far more desirable for a missile boat.



Yeah, I really think you can't do much better than the C4 for a Catapult. The A1 can't carry TAG which hurts it considerably, where the C4 can carry a perfect mix of BAP and missiles. It'd actually be really good if it was a little faster.



The K2 isn't a missile 'mech but is without question the best Catapult. Definitely keep that one. It's double AC20 setup is a terror to even Jagermechs. Very unique for a Catapult and pretty awesome. Just watch out for firing both too fast and Ghost Heating.

Hence I prefaced with "I personally"... unlike some people I give opinions and not preach from a pulpit

Edit: http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

Edited by Mycrus, 16 February 2014 - 08:27 PM.

[Jelik]

While there's some very good advice in those LRM commandments it obviously isn't absolute gospel. You can break several of these 'commandments' and still use LRMs quite effectively. I've run a "sub-par" Awesome LRM boat without Artemis at 50kph and been incredibly effective much, much more often than not.

- Low speed isn't that much of an issue if you move directly supporting a heavy lance or the main force as a heavy boat. There are both fast support lighter LRM boats and slow Rainmakers. Both have their merits. You just need to be careful not to over-extend with a slower boat.

-If you hang back trying to fire LRMs from safety, speed won't help you when the inevitable lights or mediums track you down. I've personally never done the lone hiding LRM boat thing so not sure how well they do but I've certainly ruined plenty of their days jumping them with a single light mech.

- BAP is really helpful as is TAG. The extra TAG Cbills never hurt either. Not essential for everyone with LRMs but for a boat they are very, very helpful. When you've got the cash and the GXP, Adv Target Decay can make all the difference.

- Make your own targets wherever possible. Nobody likes the mech hiding crying for targets.

- Artemis is nice but not essential. Doesn't seem to head directly for the enemy's core anymore.

- It doesn't have to be 'all in' with LRMS. For instance I run some Centurions and Orions with fairly close range firepower supported by some LRMs to contribute before the battle fully closes or to give me something outside of the 270m sweet spot while brawling. Sure, they may suffer against AMS if fired alone against an AMS equipped group but often you'll be contributing to others doing the same and a you'll often catch mechs without..

- Always nice to have point defence weapons for when people rush you to get under your LRM range. If they're fresh, without help you are obviously doomed but they're often heavily damaged. The quad small lasers on my Hunchback 4SP have saved the day plenty of times. And it's always fun to end someone's day with laser pointers.

Edited by Jelik Andelgard, 16 February 2014 - 09:25 PM.

[Jonny Slam]

Wow! what fantastic feedback and advice! Thank you all for taking the time to help me out, really informative and helpful stuff.

I have the C4 elite now, and the K2 as well, really enjoyable to be able to switch to direct fire after any particularly unsuccessful LRM rounds.

I have really been enjoying myself and have seen just enough steady improvement in effectiveness and scores to keep it up.

In fact I finally felt steady enough to put down real cash for MC. I bought the heavy bundle with the bonus splash cat, A1, so when I have finished the elite on the K2 I will noodle around with that as well. I have the advanced zoom mod, which has been super helpful to follow missle and practice dead fire. The zoom is also really helpful with the K2, I'm running twin gauss, Slam! Slam!

I am also looking ahead beyond the Cats and what my next Rigs will be, so I took some more great advice from the forums and bought the Griffen 3M, what a wicked good deal that thing is! 13 double sinks and a XL 275.

The XL is doing duty in the Cats right now, very handy donk.

I also unlocked the decay mod, but imagine my shock when I saw how much the sucker costs!!!!! 6million! Yikes!

It will be a few matches before I can buy that sucker.

Thanks for all the great tips folks, this is a tremendous online community.

Edited by Jonny Slam, 19 February 2014 - 12:22 PM.

[wanderer]

Adv. Decay is expensive, but lovely when your target ducks...and doesn't realize you'll keep lock long enough anyway. BOOM.

-3M's make nice LRM skirmishers. You can tuck TAG in the torso energy mount, and I actually do one LRM 15+ Artemis + 3x Streak to work with it. You can drop an ML or something in the arm, but I usually just use my big ol' arms as damage shields. Scouts looking for easy LRM boat kills hate you, especially since you can strip ECM cloaking with your TAG laser and just plow Streak salvos into them till they run off...which sets you up for a nice TAG/LRM salvo to keep them running. A few jets to get you over rough terrain and life is good.

[Charons Little Helper]

Victor Morson, on 16 February 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

But I plan to swap to this when it's out for cbills:
Griffin LRM Skirmisher /w Arm TAG

You can move the TAG to the torso to free some more ammo at the expense of easy tags, too.

As a quick heads up - I run pretty much that build. At present though - you need to go LRM 20 & LRM 10. It's cooldown is a bit more - but the griffon is one of the mechs with screwed up tubes.

If you make it like that - the LRM 15 goes into one of the 10 tube slots. (I submitted a ticket - they let me know that they're aware of the issue.)