106 replies to this topic

[Rhent]

The current heat system is not working.

Why:
The current high heat cap and low heat dissipation has set up a system set for abuse. Historically that abuse was the 6 PPC stalker, which worked because the heat cap was so high that they could come out, fire one blast, hide for 4 seconds, come back again and fire another blast and core a mech and be at 99% heat. To fix this, the developers have raised heat across the board on energy based weapons and implemented the hated "Ghost Heat" system, which is almost universally hated.

Consequences:
-Autocannons have become the primary weapon system of the game, even factoring in the large crit space, ammo requirement and tonnage required to run them. A 3 UAC/5 + 3 ML Ilya can core an Atlas 1 on 1 in a higher percentage than they should be able. All things considered equal, a brawler Atlas should destroy a an Ilya boating the build above, but in my own experience, 2 out 3 three, my 70 ton Ilya with an XL will kill a 100 ton atlas with a Std engine. Its not due to my skill, its due to HEAT.

-Gameplay revolves around a flawed heat mechanic where you front load as much damage as you can and then wait for your heat to disspate and then rinse and repeat.

Fix: Low Heat Cap, high dissipation.
The developers can figure out a system that would allow someone to fire 2 ERPPC's with 20 DHS at least 3 times without overheating and would allow 2 PPCs + 2 ML with 20 DHS to fire at least 8 times without overheating. When you overheat, at the bare minimum keep the existing heat penalties if not add more.

Set the Heat Cap to 30. Adding more heat sinks increases the dissipation rate.

Outcome:
The existing builds of the day will not be become obsolete. You would still be able to run a 2 PPC + 2 AC5 build. You would not see 4 or 6 PPC stalkers with this system. You will see people running 4 LL builds and 6 ML builds. Lights won't get nerfed out of running ML's with this system, they can run 6 ML and not hit the 30 pt cap limit. Ghost Heat can be removed from the system, its a bad idea right up their Jar Jar Binks and Mitochlorions bad.

Edited by Rhent, 16 February 2014 - 04:48 PM.

[TehSBGX]

I'm in favor of a 30 heat cap with high dissapation rate too, but it seems unlikely Paul will ever admit ghost heat doesn't work.

Edited by TehSBGX, 16 February 2014 - 04:59 PM.

[Rhent]

TehSBGX, on 16 February 2014 - 04:52 PM, said:

I'm favor of a 30 heat cap with high dissapation rate too, but it seems unlikely Paul will ever admit ghost heat doesn't work.

I'm getting tired of AC Warrior Online. I understand it, but it blows. AC's do not need to be nerfed, the blasted heat system needs to be fixed to allow Energy Weapons to be more useful.

[Roughneck45]

Rhent, on 16 February 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

All things considered equal, a brawler Atlas should destroy a an Ilya boating the build above, but in my own experience, 2 out 3 three, my 70 ton Ilya with an XL will kill a 100 ton atlas with a Std engine. Its not due to my skill, its due to HEAT.

No, its due to the Atlas not targeting your side torso and presenting his CT to you the whole time.

[Damocles69]

Yes. The heat system has been buried for a long time. PGI was warned of this time and time again during closed beta. Many of the in game issues are a direct result of those terrible heat system. They will not rework ever. I don't know if they can't or it will be to much work but it will never change

[Sandpit]

Heat system works for me. I'd like to see more disabling affects from high heat though. Slow movement, blurred vision, etc. Other than that, it's good to go

[Joseph Mallan]

Weapon Cyclic rate set to 2.5 times TT... Set Sinks at 2.0 times cyclic rate of TT (make us sweat a lil!) And all sinks at full capacity!

[3rdworld]

Make heat sinks a resource.

Then Assume that heat / CD is normalized for all weapons.

So 1 heatsink vents 1 heat for the CD of any weapon. While this Heatsink is venting heat for a weapon it is "tapped". If you fire a weapon over your heatsinks, you accumulate heat. A heatsink will immediately tap for 5 seconds to vent 1 excess heat.

Set the cap lower, and go from there. Much easier to balance than dealing with tons of different CDs and heat values while maintaining a static value for dissipation.

[o0Marduk0o]

Oh look, another player who does not know the reasons behind ghost heat.
Nevertheless, your suggestion is awful and outdated and you should feel ashamed for this thread.

[lsp]

There should be no reason a mech can't boat four ppcs, there are mechs in battletech that do it. And I also don't see the complaint with the triple ultras either, they should melt face.. If people only learned to torso twist, that atlas would still core the ilya. Boating is a part of mechwarrior, if people don't like it, than they are playing the wrong game. Heat should be lowered on almost all the weapons in the game, and ghost heat gone. There should be no penalty for boating.

The Mauler comes stock with 4 ac2's, 2 llas, 2 lrm15s. In the current MWO, you wouldn't even be able to run that mech, because of the ******** heat system. And the fact that they punish people for boating...

Game should be called mech regulated online. Not Mechwarrior, because we have no liberty to play the game in the manner it was intended.

Edited by lsp, 17 February 2014 - 12:52 PM.

[o0Marduk0o]

lsp, on 17 February 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

There should be no reason a mech can't boat four ppcs, there are mechs in battletech that do it. .

You can boat 4 PPC, you can't alpha all of them. That's it.

[JohnnyWayne]

Personally I would set the heatcap to 35. So you don't overheat when you fire 2 ER PPCs.

Either way, I like heat penaltys. I don't like the way the heat dissipation is handled.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 17 February 2014 - 12:54 PM.

[Karyu]

o0Marduk0o, on 17 February 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

Oh look, another player who does not know the reasons behind ghost heat.
Nevertheless, your suggestion is awful and outdated and you should feel ashamed for this thread.

Oh look, another pretentious ******* on MWO forums. Yes, I started my post with an insult. Sorry I'm not sorry.

Ghost heat was introduced to curb boating, which is a technique directly intended to frontload a high alpha. In doing so it completely homogenizes builds and leads to abusive builds such as the 6 PPC Stalker.

This fix has been the solution the entire time. Requiring the damage to be applied over several salvos also inherently decreases high pinpoint damage and increases TTK. Reduced heat cap with increased heat dissipation addresses boating and TTK. That means the suggested fix would solve two of the biggest complaints people have with the game...oh, and it would also allow DHS to be true DHS, which would (wait for it) make some of the trial "competitive" enough to be used in a PUG.

It's not a comprehensive fix, but it's a step in the right direction. Next up would be reducing motion blur/impulse on everything smaller than an AC10, and changing all AC's into burst fire weapon to further reduce pinpoint damage. Get rid of the ******** charge up on the Gauss (Make it so when you fire a Gauss that it's the ONLY thing that can be fired because of the energy drain) and you almost have a decent MechWarrior game.

Edited by Karyu, 17 February 2014 - 12:55 PM.

[Quick n Fast]

I say lets put a cap on how many weps u can put on ur mech of each type.

lets make it so u can only have:
- 4MLs or 2LL
-1PPC
-3AC2s or 2AC5s or 1AC10 or 1AC20 or 1Gauss
-3SRMs or 2LRMs

then you wont need ghost heat, and if all this sounds stupide to you imagine how everyone else feels after reading your post OP.

[JohnnyWayne]

Kahnawake MechMaster Prime, on 17 February 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

I say lets put a cap on how many weps u can put on ur mech of each type.

lets make it so u can only have:
- 4MLs or 2LL
-1PPC
-3AC2s or 2AC5s or 1AC10 or 1AC20 or 1Gauss
-3SRMs or 2LRMs

then you wont need ghost heat, and if all this sounds stupide to you imagine how everyone else feels after reading your post OP.

No. Stock loadouts and thats the last word on this topic. Your suggestion wouldn't be Mechwarrior / Battletech anymore.

[lsp]

o0Marduk0o, on 17 February 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

You can boat 4 PPC, you can't alpha all of them. That's it.

Being able to barely fire off two at a time is not acceptable. Why even take four in the first place, and forget even using erppcs. Can't have two erppcs, can barely manage one.

[Mister Blastman]

Firing 2 ERPPCs should make you overheat to borderline where if you fire one more weapon, you shutdown. You should then have to wait a solid turn before you can fire again.

Turn should be based on Medium Laser recycle time. Heatsinks should be adjusted to cool over this period of time.

Don't like waiting? Don't like PPCs so hot? Don't use PPCs. Use other weapons like smaller lasers.

[lsp]

o0Marduk0o, on 17 February 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

Oh look, another player who does not know the reasons behind ghost heat.
Nevertheless, your suggestion is awful and outdated and you should feel ashamed for this thread.

Opinions are like [redacted] , everyone has one. Maybe you should play titanfall or hawken, because sounds like you don't like mechwarrior. Ghost heat is crap, a penalty system that punishes players for playing mechwarrior the way it was designed to be played. The heat system is a joke in this game.

Mister Blastman, on 17 February 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

Firing 2 ERPPCs should make you overheat to borderline where if you fire one more weapon, you shutdown. You should then have to wait a solid turn before you can fire again.

Turn should be based on Medium Laser recycle time. Heatsinks should be adjusted to cool over this period of time.

Don't like waiting? Don't like PPCs so hot? Don't use PPCs. Use other weapons like smaller lasers.

Or, they could actually make a mech warrior game. Not cry baby we need ghost heat online.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 18 February 2014 - 07:41 PM.

[Raso]

I think that along side a lower heat cap and higher dissipation we should find a way to reward people for using multiple, smaller, low slot weapons over, say, 3 larger weapons. I think that upping the crit rate, upping internal structure and adjusting item HP accordingly will reward people for utilizing their mech's hard-points to the fullest over those who only equip, say, 2 PPCs and an AC10.

This naturally rewards people who don't boat 2 or 3 high power weapons while solidifying those high alpha designs as the glass cannon, one-trick-ponies they should be laughed at for being. It gives a legitimate trade off variants with load outs like that of the Hunchback's 4G and 4H (as an example) where you can trade a single, high impact AC and some lasers over several smaller and more reliable ACs with less lasers.

I strongly feel that heat is only half of the equation as to how to generate stronger mech diversity. There needs to be reasons other than a heat to alpha damage ratio to equip the weapons people currently equip.

[o0Marduk0o]

Karyu, on 17 February 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

Ghost heat was introduced to curb boating, which is a technique directly intended to frontload a high alpha. In doing so it completely homogenizes builds and leads to abusive builds such as the 6 PPC Stalker.

You seem to know more about ghost heat than the OP, congratulation!

lsp, on 17 February 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

Being able to barely fire off two at a time is not acceptable. Why even take four in the first place, and forget even using erppcs. Can't have two erppcs, can barely manage one.

Cooldown for LL is 3,25 sec, you have to wait 0,5 sec to avoid ghost heat. How is there no reason to slot 4 of them in a build focused on LL with enough heatsinks?
4 PPC IS hot, it is meant to be hot and those mechs are hot in battletech. Did I mention hot? It seems you have no clue how it works. It is NOT mechwarrior to fire 4 PPC at once.

Maybe you are the one who doesn't want to play Mechwarrior.