32 replies to this topic

[whitelightshadow]

Can anybody explain to me why the Spider is so lightly armed compared to other mechs?

the SDR-5V has only two laser hardpoints on the center torso and nothing else. The best damage rating you can get is 12. That is with two medium pulse lasers. That is compared to almost double on other light mechs.

When you compare the Spider with others:

Spider 1x 2 Hard points Version, 1x 3 Hard points Versions & 1x5 Hard point Version

Locust 5 Hard points / Version
Commando 4 Hard points / Version
Firestarter 1x 7 Hard points Version & 4x 8 Hard Points Versions
Jenner 1x 4 Hard Points Version, 1x 5 Hard Points Version & 4x 6 Hard Points Versions
Raven 5 Hard points / Version

The most heavily armed spider is also the slowest as on the other the most heavily armed version is the fastest.

With speed most of the lights have almost the same top speed with the biggest engine fitted.

So why is the Spider so heavily penalized? Is there anybody who can please explain that to me?

Thank you

Edited by F Henning, 18 February 2014 - 11:09 PM.

[ShinVector]

F Henning, on 18 February 2014 - 11:08 PM, said:

Can anybody explain to me why the Spider is so lightly armed compared to other mechs?

the SDR-5V has only two laser hardpoints on the center torso and nothing else. The best damage rating you can get is 12. That is with two medium pulse lasers. That is compared to almost double on other light mechs.

When you compare the Spider with others:

Spider 1x 2 Hard points Version, 1x 3 Hard points Versions & 1x5 Hard point Version

Locust 5 Hard points / Version
Commando 4 Hard points / Version
Firestarter 1x 7 Hard points Version & 4x 8 Hard Points Versions
Jenner 1x 4 Hard Points Version, 1x 5 Hard Points Version & 4x 6 Hard Points Versions
Raven 5 Hard points / Version

The most heavily armed spider is also the slowest as on the other the most heavily armed version is the fastest.

With speed most of the lights have almost the same top speed with the biggest engine fitted.

So why is the Spider so heavily penalized? Is there anybody who can please explain that to me?

Thank you

Are you seriously comparing the Spider with the Locust ? LOL...
The 5V pre-buff used to be the worst mech in the game... Now it is the Locust...

At least 5V goes really really fast and is really hard to kill....
Btw... There is a secret annoying build for the 5V... It is called the Zombie 5V... ;p

Edited by ShinVector, 18 February 2014 - 11:14 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Spiders are not intended to be fast gunboats like the Jenner or Firestarter, nor are they light strikers like Commandos. They aren't utility or light-mediums like the Ravens, nor are they pure ground-pounding speed demons like the Locust.

Spiders are ninja mechs. They move fast and fly far. They are all about maneuvering. They are intended to boat JJs, which lets them put a few weapons into unexpected places in ways that no other light can match.

Why do they not do that in MWO? Because of the JJ mechanics. 1 JJ does the bulk of the work, and 2 JJs are sufficient for most needs. Very few builds require more than 2 or 3, so the Spider variants that sacrifice weapons for more JJs simply don't have a real incentive to use all those JJs.

That said, the Spider is still the hardest light to hit, due to a combination of HSR issues and hitbox problems. They're less immortal than they were, but still have an edge over the other lights in that regard. Their profile is uniquely skinny, and their legs are tiny compared to all the other lights. Plus they can generally pack enough weaponry to do the job even if it means they only have one weapon (typically a LL of some kind in the CT).

[SnagaDance]

Oh noes! This must mean that I'm even more nooby every time I'm being harassed to death by a Spider as they are actually completely sub-par!

I'm being killed by the special mech!

[TehSBGX]

Spiders aren't about raw damage, they're about driving your opponents nuts. They speedy, tiny, and have hitbox issues. They're amazing because they're so aggrivating to fight.

[DarkDevilDancer]

The mech is true to the TT version which means limited hard points.

But a well piloted spider is lethal, you have to know how to use the speed and agility of the mech you can't stand toe to toe with a heavy but if you perform slashing attacks going in and out of cover and focus your shots there is nothing you can't kill.

[Carrioncrows]

Because


Nope that's it, simply because.

There is no scout role in this game.
There is no recon role in this game.
Jumpjets are a fraction of what they should be (Think x4 times intense and able to change direction in air but third the duration)
There is very few reasons to run a light mech over a heavier one, and if you do take one with the most firepower.

[Jenkss]

Because, Spiders (all of them) are amazing.

If they ever released a Venom-esque Spider hero with 4 laser hard points, 2 in each side torso, the river of tears would run a mile wide.

Pleeeease, I'd buy the hell out of a Spider hero.

[ShinVector]

Jenkss, on 19 February 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

Because, Spiders (all of them) are amazing.

If they ever released a Venom-esque Spider hero with 4 laser hard points, 2 in each side torso, the river of tears would run a mile wide.

Pleeeease, I'd buy the hell out of a Spider hero.

Don't forget ECM... LOL !

[Jenkss]

Don't need it, 5V does just fine without it. Although it is bjce having it on the 5D

[Deathlike]

The Spider-5V is by far the most needlessly crippled mech in the game. It can only tank, cap (offense or defend)... but that's it.

Although it is "mostly durable" through bad hitreg, it produces no offense worth speaking of this allowing you to mostly ignore them. Whatever build you put on it does not scare anyone.

It needs additional 1 energy hardpoint on it to even remotely become useful (preferably not on the head).

Edited by Deathlike, 19 February 2014 - 07:57 AM.

[Khobai]

Funny how the Spider was considered one of the best lights in the game until the Firestarter. Firestarter has ruined any light mech balance that did one time exist.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 19 February 2014 - 08:04 AM, said:

Funny how the Spider was considered one of the best lights in the game until the Firestarter. Firestarter has ruined any light mech balance that did one time exist.

Last time I recall, the Spider was one of the worst lights (especially when it was released) and the Jenner was king. A lot of people seem to think that missing a shot against a certain mech makes that mech in question good.

[Khobai]

Quote

Last time I recall, the Spider was one of the worst lights (especially when it was released) and the Jenner was king.

Well the Jenner was always the best. But the Spider was the second best. It was better than the Raven.

[Mordin Ashe]

Spider has very specific role. It is supposed to be the Mech you hate most. Not the one that kills you in two alphas, not the one that rips your exposed internals with MGs. No fire support, no high tonnage weaponry. Spiders are masters of annoyance. They are pesky, insolent little bugs that don't suffer from extensive legging, bugs so small that no matter how you aim your damage will always be areal instead of pinpoint and they can literally fly over the valleys.
As such, they require a very specific mindset. You don't see many of such pilots in game, thus barely anyone is capable of appreciating this little rascal.

Anyway, if you want lights, take jenner. You can never go wrong with jenner in any situation.

Edited by Mordin Ashe, 19 February 2014 - 08:47 AM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 19 February 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

Well the Jenner was always the best. But the Spider was the second best. It was better than the Raven.

Maybe the ECM Spider variant was wee bit better than a 4X or 2X...but a 3L? Nah. The Spider 5V is arguably the worst light or very close to it, and the MG variant is just a troll.

Honestly, no matter what mech I'm driving, of any weight class, I would rather face a Spider than a Jenner, Firestarter, or reasonably armed Raven. Sure, I might miss a few more shots again the skinny little guy that those other mechs. But his damage against me is also a lot lower because of having so few hardpoints. If I miss, I can just line up another shot and try again. He, on the other hand, needs to fire quite a large number of times to actually take me down. If I'm not damaged by a teammate ahead of time, that Spider is gonna have a bad time. And if I was damaged ahead of time, anything would have been able to finish me off anyways, The Spider is just not an intimidating mech to fight against. A little annoying? Sure. Threatening? Not usually.

Edited by FupDup, 19 February 2014 - 09:00 AM.

[Carrioncrows]

The spider has never been a fantastic mech.

It has had bad hit registration, jumpjets and the ability to carry ECM on a single variant.

A variant that is hands down the most powerful of it's 3 anemic variants. Which prompted most people to simply use x2 Er larges or a single er PPC to stay at range and have some moderate success.

But the spider has never been "GOOD" and I am shocked that people say it was considered the best light mech.

And this is comming from a spider lover. I love the spiders, love em. But they are rubbish sir.

The 5V should have 4 energy hardpoints, 2 CT, 1 LT, 1 RT and the fact that it only has 2 energy hardpoints for a few other worthless jumpjets is right up there with pointlessly bad Pretty Baby.

The 5K should have 2 energy hardpoints in the ct instead of 1.

There is just so much the mech *Should* of been, but is instead it is now simply there to make locusts feel good about themselves. The only reason it enjoyed any success at all was because of the games bad hit registration.

Now every patch when the registration gets just a little bit better the spider slides several gigantic steps towards the horrible mech it really is.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 19 February 2014 - 01:15 PM.

[Deathlike]

Carrioncrows, on 19 February 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

But the spider has never been "GOOD" and I am shocked that people say it was considered the best light mech.

TBH, many of them have not driven them. That's a likely reality.

Quote

And this is comming from a spider lover. I love the spiders, love em. But they are rubbish sir.

Plenty of rubbish to go around.

Quote

The 5V should have 4 energy hardpoints, 2 CT, 1 LT, 1 RT and the fact that it only has 2 energy hardpoints for a few other worthless jumpjets is right up there with pointlessly bad Pretty Baby.

I have a hard time trying to put the Spider-5V on sale... even if it was a 75-80% discount involved. With your "crazy changes", it might be better than the Commando outright... so I'm not exactly going to endorse that.

Quote

The 5K should have 2 energy hardpoints in the ct instead of 1.

I used to suggest that, way back when the MGs are terribad. The energy hardpoints are not the problem... the MG still feels a tad underpowered after that MG nerf.

Quote

There is just so much the mech *Should* of been, but is instead it is now simply there to make locusts feel good about themselves. The only reason it enjoyed any success at all was because of the games bad hit registration.

Lolcusts can't tank for damage. Spiders "technically" can. The only thing that Locusts have over the Spider is having a tad more firepower (1V is close to the 5K, but the 3M offensively would be more efficient than any other the Spiders... the 3S... well...)

The Spider-5V competes with the Locusts in the "worst mech brackets" minus the 3M.

Quote

Now every patch when the registration gets just a little bit better the spider slides several gigantic steps towards the horrible mech it really is.

Unfortunately, you are right.

[Carrioncrows]

Deathlike, on 19 February 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

I have a hard time trying to put the Spider-5V on sale... even if it was a 75-80% discount involved. With your "crazy changes", it might be better than the Commando outright... so I'm not exactly going to endorse that.

Few points:

A. The energy weapons are all torso mounted, while the commando is not.

B. Technically the Spider SHOULD overpower the Commando. That's like saying I don't want to make Atlas's better because they would outclass Awesome's completely...Yeah.

C. Don't get me started on commandos =) lol. If it can't stand alone it can't stand at all.

D. I am not a big fan of every ECM variant of a mech being the "BEST" variant. I would rather the 5V be the damage dealer, and the one variant that can mimic the "Venom" we all want.

[Deathlike]

Carrioncrows, on 19 February 2014 - 10:15 PM, said:

Few points:

A. The energy weapons are all torso mounted, while the commando is not.

I guess that's OK, but having played the Firestarter for a while now and remembering the terrible days with the 5V, the torso movement going up and down would drive me nuts.

Quote

B. Technically the Spider SHOULD overpower the Commando. That's like saying I don't want to make Atlas's better because they would outclass Awesome's completely...Yeah.

Well, I kinda like how the Commando and Spider have different "traits" (Commando has better overall offense, Spider is a better "tank", despite the hitreg/hitboxes) that balance each other out. Then again, there's the 35 tonners that will eat them both up. In any case, the Commandos arms tend to be disabled pretty easily, like the Firestarter. I would say 4 torso energy hardpoints is "too much" compared to the Commando on the other hand... (just add 1 more, somewhere on the mech other than the head, and be done with it).

Quote

C. Don't get me started on commandos =) lol. If it can't stand alone it can't stand at all.

The Commandos are fun, and hold great troll power. It's the only thing that truly makes the Locust look sad.

Quote

D. I am not a big fan of every ECM variant of a mech being the "BEST" variant. I would rather the 5V be the damage dealer, and the one variant that can mimic the "Venom" we all want.

I have never liked that design to add ECM to the best variant (although the Cicada-3M is kinda debatable though). Imagine if the Jenner-D did receive ECM as originally intended...

Edited by Deathlike, 20 February 2014 - 12:20 AM.