214 replies to this topic

[Lyoto Machida]

Xanilos, on 19 February 2014 - 07:57 AM, said:

Like that they buffed it, dont think its enough to make the weapon more useful than a PPC or an autocannon.

Also like that they have made a balance change since they havent done so in months and high alpha and autocannons have reigned supreme.

A fan of the Thieves Guild, eh?

[EvilCow]

It is a step in the right direction but not sufficient.

I would give pulse lasers a much shorter beam duration or make them like in MW2: 3 pulses of concentrated damage in a short time.

[CrashieJ]

the heat is actually fine, it's the mechanics of how they work that is the problem

making them act like laser machineguns where it's constant DOT rather than cool-down enabled could end up having brawlers having a laser-fied constant dakka

[Sephlock]

gavilatius, on 19 February 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

the heat is actually fine, it's the mechanics of how they work that is the problem

making them act like laser machineguns where it's constant DOT rather than cool-down enabled could end up having brawlers having a laser-fied constant dakka

You say that as if it's a bad thing...

[LaserAngel]

gavilatius, on 19 February 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

the heat is actually fine, it's the mechanics of how they work that is the problem

making them act like laser machineguns where it's constant DOT rather than cool-down enabled could end up having brawlers having a laser-fied constant dakka

I see, another vote for burn-in and recycle time adjustments with a possible tweak of additional range. It really gives Light and Medium Mechs a chance to deal as much damage in as short a time as possible to limit their exposure. 90 meters on the Small and Small Pulse Laser is suicidal right now. I'm just surprised that they didn't get a range boost like the Machine Gun did almost a year ago.

[Cactus In The Rear]

Lyoto Machida, on 19 February 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

A fan of the Thieves Guild, eh?

Kajiit has no time for you.

[Trauglodyte]

Sephlock, on 19 February 2014 - 02:43 PM, said:

You say that as if it's a bad thing...

It isn't a bad thing. That's the point. You can have DOT normal lasers, you can have missiles that spread, you can pin point damage by way of PPCs and ACs, or you can have fast firing laser wub wub with Pulse Lasers. Everything has a niche, we just need to get it there.

[3rdworld]

gavilatius, on 19 February 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

the heat is actually fine, it's the mechanics of how they work that is the problem

making them act like laser machineguns where it's constant DOT rather than cool-down enabled could end up having brawlers having a laser-fied constant dakka

I would rather them go the opposite direction. A major problem with weapons that have very quick recycle rates (uac sometimes, AC/2s, MGs) you have to face your target the entire time, you do not have an opportunity to look away, to make your CT more difficult or any real evasive maneuvering.

That can be incredibly detrimental to brawlers, who are looking to get in range, deal as much damage as possible, then get back into cover or out of firing angles. Which is why brawling weapons are usually incredibly high alpha weapons. SRMs & AC/20s.

I suggest we drastically lower the pulse laser's duration. To the point where it is nearly a pinpoint weapon. This gives brawlers a very potent energy weapon, that does not diminish their abilities to shoulder damage.

[Osric Lancaster]

Triordinant, on 19 February 2014 - 06:11 AM, said:

Should have been less heat instead of more range.

Pretty much. Heat balance on all lasers in MWO has been been utterly screwy of late. Maybe PGI could start a 'what heat should this weapon have' poll and use some actual player feedback? Or fix their defective heat system? Please? Eg. - Faster heat dissipation, lower heat cap, no ghost heat, dissipation rate decreasing by 2% for each 5% of overheat.

damage / heat
____________ MWO ____________ Tabletop ____________ Suggested Value

- mwo improved -
LL ____________ 9 / 7 ____________ 8 / 8 ____________ 9 / 7
erLL ____________ 9 / 8.5 ____________ 8 / 12 ____________ 9 / 9.25
LPL ____________ 10.6 / 8 ____________ 9 / 10 ____________ 11 / 9

- mwo gimped -
ml ____________ 5 / 4 ____________ 5 / 3 ____________ 5 / 3.5
mpl ____________ 6 / 5 ____________ 6 / 4 ____________ 6.25 / 4
sl ____________ 3 / 2 ____________ 3 / 1 ____________ 3 / 1.25
spl ____________ 3.4 / 2.4 ____________ 3 / 2 ____________ 3.4 / 2

wanderer, on 19 February 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

The fact that stock 'Mechs do so incredibly, abominably horrid is one of the fingers of shame I point at MWO's development. They did such a bad job with the heat system that it DOES turn stocks into death-traps. Customs should be better, but FFS they shouldn't be the only way to make a viable design.

I completely agree. From my perspective, the terribad heat system is the main reason for this, but another problem is the way ammo based weapons are being applied in MWO. In a stock 'Mech you'll run out of ammo within the first minute of encountering an enemy in any match. Even firing conservatively ammo burns off at a furious rate, especially with LRMs. If they gave 'Mechs assigned ammo bins, slowed r.o.f. a little and upped the ammo count to something reasonable then stock load outs might start to look more viable.

Edited by Osric Lancaster, 19 February 2014 - 03:47 PM.

[LaserAngel]

3rdworld, on 19 February 2014 - 03:07 PM, said:

I would rather them go the opposite direction. A major problem with weapons that have very quick recycle rates (uac sometimes, AC/2s, MGs) you have to face your target the entire time, you do not have an opportunity to look away, to make your CT more difficult or any real evasive maneuvering.

That can be incredibly detrimental to brawlers, who are looking to get in range, deal as much damage as possible, then get back into cover or out of firing angles. Which is why brawling weapons are usually incredibly high alpha weapons. SRMs & AC/20s.

I suggest we drastically lower the pulse laser's duration. To the point where it is nearly a pinpoint weapon. This gives brawlers a very potent energy weapon, that does not diminish their abilities to shoulder damage.

I guess once more this is where "Laser Machine Gun" comes into play. I dread facing a ballistic Mech since I know they can keep me suppressed and have a better chance at dealing damage when I have to expose my Mech. A continuous Laser Machine Gun would definitely make them think twice about facing you and if you have the benefit of Lower Arm Actuators you can face your arms forward while attempting to shield your torso sections. I guess that I mean to say is that it needs to better replicate the Pulse Lasers from MechWarrior 3 or the X-Pulse Lasers from MechWarrior: Living Legends. Still, yesterday was a step forward.

[Trauglodyte]

Quote

I would rather them go the opposite direction. A major problem with weapons that have very quick recycle rates (uac sometimes, AC/2s, MGs) you have to face your target the entire time, you do not have an opportunity to look away, to make your CT more difficult or any real evasive maneuvering.

That can be incredibly detrimental to brawlers, who are looking to get in range, deal as much damage as possible, then get back into cover or out of firing angles. Which is why brawling weapons are usually incredibly high alpha weapons. SRMs & AC/20s.

I suggest we drastically lower the pulse laser's duration. To the point where it is nearly a pinpoint weapon. This gives brawlers a very potent energy weapon, that does not diminish their abilities to shoulder damage.

I get what you're saying. The concept, at least in my mind, is to have it be like a Machine Gun and like it is now. Think of it like this:

Large Pulse Laser (now) - fires 5 pulses over 0.6s; recharges every 3.25s

Large Pulse Laser (new) - fires 5 pulses over 0.6s; each pulse recharges every 0.65s

The way I'm looking at it, the weapon would act like a bank. You'd hold 5 charges and be able to unload all of them over 0.6s like now. But, you'd recharge a new pulse every 0.65s. That would give you the option of using it when needed or letting it bank all of the charges and unload them in a heavy alpha. It would also afford you the ability to pop a single pulse per weapon for when you need it to finish someone off without having to waste a lot of heat on more than is needed.

[Corvus Antaka]

6 tons for LPL maybe?

[MischiefSC]

Range - irrelevant, largely. You want range you're taking PPCs for the same tonnage.

Heat difference - can't tell. Still too hot to be a brawling weapon.

Needs to drop 1 ton weight. Then someone would care.

[Osric Lancaster]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 19 February 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:

6 tons for LPL maybe?

Please, no. The last thing we need is to give PGI a precedence for changing canonical weapon tonnages.
Changes to duration, heat, damage, recycle, or mode of fire are fine. If you want an energy weapon for filling that 2 to 5 ton gap, how about waiting / asking for light PPCs to be bumped up the timeline first?

Trauglodyte, on 19 February 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

The way I'm looking at it, the weapon would act like a bank. You'd hold 5 charges and be able to unload all of them over 0.6s like now. But, you'd recharge a new pulse every 0.65s. That would give you the option of using it when needed or letting it bank all of the charges and unload them in a heavy alpha. It would also afford you the ability to pop a single pulse per weapon for when you need it to finish someone off without having to waste a lot of heat on more than is needed.

That's actually quite clever. I like it.

Edited by Osric Lancaster, 19 February 2014 - 04:48 PM.

[LaserAngel]

Osric Lancaster, on 19 February 2014 - 04:39 PM, said:

Please, no. The last thing we need is to give PGI a precedence for changing canonical weapon tonnages.
Changes to duration, heat, damage, recycle, or mode of fire are fine. If you want an energy weapon for filling that 2 to 5 ton gap, how about waiting / asking for light PPCs to be bumped up the timeline first?

I'm toying with some Light PPC based builds but that's 3067 technology.

[3rdworld]

Trauglodyte, on 19 February 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

I get what you're saying. The concept, at least in my mind, is to have it be like a Machine Gun and like it is now. Think of it like this:

Large Pulse Laser (now) - fires 5 pulses over 0.6s; recharges every 3.25s

Large Pulse Laser (new) - fires 5 pulses over 0.6s; each pulse recharges every 0.65s

The way I'm looking at it, the weapon would act like a bank. You'd hold 5 charges and be able to unload all of them over 0.6s like now. But, you'd recharge a new pulse every 0.65s. That would give you the option of using it when needed or letting it bank all of the charges and unload them in a heavy alpha. It would also afford you the ability to pop a single pulse per weapon for when you need it to finish someone off without having to waste a lot of heat on more than is needed.

Not exactly what I would like to see, but I wouldn't complain.

It needs to do something different, being a slightly better(ish) laser does not offset its tonnage.

[Trauglodyte]

Yeah, I know what you mean 3rd. Just not sure what to do with the thing. Ya know what I mean?

[Deathlike]

I actually liked MW3's pulse laser behavior a lot (MW2 was kinda borked despite it being chaingun-like, and MW4 was underwhelming generally).



Basically, the pulse laser duration ties into the cooldown. The more you use, the longer the cooldown. The longer the lasers are focused on your target, the more damage you do overall and the more heat you generate.

It's really that simple and unique. No need to reinvent the wheel here.

[CtrlAltWheee]

Mad Cow Jenkins, on 19 February 2014 - 03:52 AM, said:

The extended range for the medium was very much needed but i would have prefered a shorter cooldown instead of more range for the LPL. This would increase the dps/ton ratio for brawling and differentiate the weapon more from normal lasers.

Agree. Make the cooldown to 2 seconds would be a fun role as high dps close range.

[Asmudius Heng]

Have not tried yet but my gut instinct said not enough to help.

The range of the LPL seems about right for it's niche but the heat to damage ratio is terrible for a weapon that needs to be so close to do damage.

the increase of 20m range to the medpulse is laughable without any change to its damage or heat.

My stats to try would be:

LPL
Range: 350
Damage: 10.6
Heat: 7.5
Recyc: 3.25

MPL
Range: 220
Damage: 6.5
Heat: 4.5
Recyc: 3

Just a smidgen more of everything to make them worth the weight ... to start as a testing point.

If they get adjusted AGAIN next patch i would be more than happy though if they were tweaking a little each time just to find a balance point ... my main worry is that this is it for another 6 months