166 replies to this topic

[Bilbo]

Khobai, on 20 February 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

Again youre trying to justify it with TT. Even if what youre saying was true, it doesnt make it okay in MWO. You can hardly call an Atlas an "assault" mech if it dies in 20 seconds. An assault mech needs to be able to tank damage. Whats even worse is that I can play a Jenner and run past the whole enemy team for 20 seconds, get shot at by all of them, and still be mostly okay. But expose yourself for 20 seconds in an Atlas and youre dead.

If you expose yourself for twenty seconds in any assault you are going to be done. None of the other assaults in MWO can survive focused fire any better than the Atlas. Their meta play-styles dictate that they don't need to expose themselves for any real length of time.

[Aluminumfoiled]

Prince Highlander 733c will be attending the royal viewing today for the burial of Good King Atlas, The Fearsome One, before his coronation. The King has fallen, long live the King!

[Purlana]

Bilbo, on 20 February 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

If you expose yourself for twenty seconds in any assault you are going to be done. None of the other assaults in MWO can survive focused fire any better than the Atlas. Their meta play-styles dictate that they don't need to expose themselves for any real length of time.

The problem is a good light can do a better job than an Atlas at drawing fire without dying. Hell you may even get a mech or two to chase you across the map, drawing them out of cover.

Edited by Purlana, 20 February 2014 - 12:37 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

The problem is a good light can do a better job than an Atlas at drawing fire without dying. Hell you may even get a mech or two to chase you across the map.

That was my point. Light mechs actually do the best job of tanking in this game. Not the assaults. Thats so wrong for obvious reasons.

[Bilbo]

Purlana, on 20 February 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

The problem is a good light can do a better job than an Atlas at drawing fire without dying. Hell you may even get a mech or two to chase you across the map.

True. But I don't play my Atlases to draw attention. I play them to hammer other mechs. I win as much as I lose so I'm not really concerned about it's place in anyone else's mind. I don't have the patience nor inclination to play sniping wars all night.

[Bagheera]

Ordellus, on 20 February 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

This is the problem. MWO has tweaked the lights and mediums into being the actual "combat" mechs, and the heavies and assaults are just there to draw fire for the minute it takes for them to die.

Maybe force lights and mediums into the support roles they are supposed to fill......

Not exactly. Lights are one thing, but to say this about mediums it's just not true in game. They are categorically outclassed by lights or heavies by every possible measure in MW:O. And they have been ever since variant based engine restrictions and the incorporation of gyro weight into engines.

And subsequent changes have not measurably improved matters for the average pilot.

Edited by Bagheera, 20 February 2014 - 12:44 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

Khobai, on 20 February 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

I dont hate it I just want all the assaults to be equal. I dont see much point in having all these different chassis if some are just going to be outright better than the rest. If youre going to give players choices, those choices should matter.

Ideally a Highlander, Atlas, and Stalker should all play differently but none of them should be better than the others.

They do all play differently, only people pack them with the flavour of the meta weapons, so they all play the same.

Part the problem is the srm, and its not all technical problems people forget how slow those things are, so you lead for say an AC10 and you hit your target, the srms you fired with the auto cannon land behind the mech, people latch on to the HSR problems and blame them rather than attempting to understand the weapon discard it and so go to lrms which are even worse than srms unless you fight in area's where people will stand still and let you bomb them.

Part the problem is the auto canon superiority, coupled with the high definition zoom module, though time and time again you see people fail with it because they use it at far to close ranges.

Part the problem is people can't be bothered to learn heat management.

But even then if you could disguise each assault you mention I'd still know which was which just by feel and motion

Edited by Cathy, 20 February 2014 - 01:06 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

Purlana, on 20 February 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

The problem is a good light can do a better job than an Atlas at drawing fire without dying. Hell you may even get a mech or two to chase you across the map, drawing them out of cover.

Well chased by a bunch of bad shots yes, it fun to lead sheep, while your team gets in back shots, its called the OHH SHINEY! syndrome, but that's not the fault of the mech thats the players being dumb and not letting lights and light mediums deal with the irritating ones.

[Bilbo]

Cathy, on 20 February 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

They do all play differently, only people pack them with the flavour of the meta weapons, so they all play the same.

Part the problem is the srm, and its not all technical problems people forget how slow those things are, so you lead for say an AC10 and you hit your target, the srms you fired with the auto cannon land behind the mech, people latch on to the HSR problems and blame them rather than attempting to understand the weapon discard it and so go to lrms which are even worse than srms unless you fight in area's where people will stand still and let you bomb them.

Part the problem is the auto canon superiority, coupled with the high definition zoom module, though time and time again you see people fail with it because they use it at far to close ranges.

Part the problem is people can't be bothered to learn heat management.

But even then if you could disguise each assault you mention I'd still know which was which just by feel and motion

Putting the srms on a separate weapons group solve both the heat management issue and the projectile speed issue. Unfortunately it doesn't solve the on again off again nature of the srm hit detection.

[Why Run]

Face it, PGI doesn't give two $hits about how the game should be. They've decided that the run and gun style of COD should be the same in this game and thus they've made lights stronger. In any previous mechwarrior based game, EVER, lights get OHKO'd so easily that they really had to play their role. ECM cover, spotting, etc. They've decided thats not how it will be here, so move the heck on.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Quote

Atlas Not As Great As You Think

Fair enough, but they are also not as bad as you think...I rarely use them but on occasion will do so in pug battles, however will not take them in 12's unless requested to do so, and dread that as I know that it would be to lead charge and tank so the jump snipers can take advantage of the distraction that the Atlas creates. Even that is rare with the group I run with, I have however seen others use them in 12's with good results, so long as used to there maximum effectiveness.

[Reitrix]

My Boars Head is amusingly, my best Atlas variant with a W/L ratio of 1.55, and a K/D ratio at 1.47.

So yeah, I'm with Joseph on this one. I still haven't found a Highlander build i even enjoy.

I find that until i can find a build that 'clicks' in my head, I can't pilot anything properly. It all comes down personal preference. I've seen people fly around in Locusts doing multiple kills and 1k+ damage, yet i can't pilot one worth a damn.


TL;DR - All 'Mechs have different unique playstyles. Don't play your Atlas like its a Victor and your game should improve.

[Lykaon]

Steel your Life, on 19 February 2014 - 03:08 AM, said:

The atlas sucks compared to the victor and highlander. Its just really not that great of a mech at all.

And one Atlas build is not the equal of another.

There are some quirks of the chassis and the lack of jump capacity is a big deal but I would not ever say an Atlas sucks.

Remember that armor is no substitute for not being hit.I have found that an Atlas with a 325 to 350 std engine packing some long range firepower is the best for me (even better with a DDC running an ECM suite)

[Joseph Mallan]

Put that size engine in a D-DC with an ECM... Good times

Good times.

[Joseph Mallan]

FactorlanP, on 20 February 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

But here those pinpoint alphas can be repeated much faster than in TT...

hand wavium. What if the Fluff said a TT turn was 3 seconds? .03 seconds? That it takes the players 10-15 minutes to finish a Turn does not change the fact it took 10 seconds.

2 60 point Targeting computer guided Alphas is still 2 60 point alphas. Only in MW:O my (F)Atlas has a chance of survival since I have more points of armor to absorb it.

We are seeing how Clans do things, and are complaining even though the weapons are not full strength Clan Tech. I played 15+ years as IS and Clan an I never heard as much crying as I read here. I took a 50 point Alpha to the chest from one player, Said "OUCH" And stepped back out of his Large Pulse Laser range! Then rained my 75 point Random located Alphas n him with impunity.

No crying, no Complaining. His weapons configurations were with in the rules of the game, And though powerful were legal to have. I didn't tell him he couldn't bring that Mech any more, I just learned to respect it and figured out how to kill it! Artillery worked well!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 21 February 2014 - 03:19 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

Khobai, on 20 February 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

Yeah basically. Lights are the only mechs that can cross in the open. Even mediums are too slow and scaled too poorly to go into open ground most of the time. And heavies/assaults have to spend most of the game hiding behind terrain because they cant take hits. The result is this awful pinpoint meta where you try to do as much damage as possible while exposing yourself as little as possible.

Agree the pp meta is really the thing to blame.
As an aside, if Assaults could tank damage as many envision and still carry a lot of firepower the meta would shift to 12 vs 12 assault fests.
A group of assaults now, if played properly and supported unless you have the tonnage to stop them they will roll over your face all day long.
I for one, never want to see world of tanks style balance where the heavy tank (read:assault) the the de facto choice for competitive play.
Already we have insanely overfast assault mechs than can match agility and speed with mediums. I have watched Victors basically mock mediums with backpedalling+torso twist antics, with the poor medium unable to fight in the manner he is supposed to....
I don't know what PGI could do to fix things but they need to be careful, the balance of power can swing very fast the wrong way.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Agreed, the Atlas really hasn't changed only the meta has. Maneuverable assaults and lites are the meta now with a sprinkling of AC heavy's for good measure. Having ECM in mine only works if my team uses it. Most often pugging they don't. Yet i still love the beast for what it is. Early summer last year was its heyday and its been a decline ever since. Not because its lousy just that roleplay is pretty much non existent. Might as well drive a trebuchet these days.

[Iskareot]

NextGame, on 19 February 2014 - 05:01 AM, said:

Atlas is alright if you use it properly, but its more of a giant punching bag these days when compared with the current handful of popular ballistics heavies & jump assault variants.

It has certainly slipped down the food chain a bit.

In some regards I honestly think something as adding armor amount to this mech would fix it or be enough to make the slight difference in it's use. No power just defense *****.

[Nunspa]

Steel your Life, on 19 February 2014 - 03:08 AM, said:

The atlas sucks compared to the victor and highlander. Its just really not that great of a mech at all.

Tell that to my 12 kills and over 1900 damage over 3 games last night......

[DarkBringer]

Just amazing! Pilots blaming the mech for their own short comings. In the Battletech universe as Fasa made it, no pilot with a rank of less than Major ever piloted an expensive battlemech as the Atlas. In this world of MWO and the BT universe, the Atlas is King of the battlefield until the arrival of the "Great Death" Daishi or Dire Wolf. In the hands of a good pilot it can beat any mech. With all skills and mech upgrades this is still true. As with any mech the Atlas must be used as it was intended. The DC mech was never intended as a close range brawler. With the Command Module and ECM, This mech was the command mech directing the battle and providing support to all mechs in its weapons range. A true lance with a Raven 3L or Spider with ecm the Atlas makes one potent tool to the mech commander. Indeed in the right hands there is no better mech than the Atlas DC on the current battlefield. This game MWO should have been like MPBT 3025. Everyone started in a commando. You had to obtain rank and monies to buy larger more complex battlemechs. There would be no bitching about the Atlas. Simple fact is, average pilots would be lucky to get to an Catapult let alone an Atlas. Join a traditional unit and learn tactics maybe your skills will improve. Maybe you were never ment to drive any assault mech. The Highlander and Victor maybe easier to drive but, a Master Pilot will always get more form a hard to Master Mech!. Stop blaming the mechs for your inabilities. Thank GOD the Head Hunters started us out right in the old days. Commando - Hunchback - QuickDraw - Charger if you could drive these your survival and kills would increase in any mech.