131 replies to this topic

[FactorlanP]

Hammerhai, on 20 February 2014 - 07:01 AM, said:

More to the point I wonder if as a community we may be more toxic than we think

There is no doubt that this community is very toxic. But guess what, it is entirely upon the heads of PGI, including Garth.

If there had been an active Community Manager asking questions, answering questions, and spreading design/development information on a constant and on going basis, I don't think we would find ourselves where we are now.

It has been PR bungle after bungle.

The Community Manager should have been in here talking with us. Explaining why design decisions have been made. Listening to our feedback. Compiling it and delivering it to the Designers.

Look at the UI2.0 feedback... Apparently all this time since UI2.0 release, the lead Devs don't seem to be aware that people are complaining that the fonts are too small on higher resolution screens.

Is anybody reading the "Feedback" threads?

I really don't think they are...

Garth might be a great guy, I don't know. But what he was doing had nothing to do with Community Management, as far as I am concerned.

[SI The Joker]

This is how I envisioned the relationships within PGI:

Garth: Hey guys... give me some info about <INSERT TOPIC HERE>
Game Designer: Will do.
Garth: Dude... WTF?! You didn't give me the info?!
Game Designer: Slipped my miiiiind.



With regard to the toxicity of this community... it was toxic lonnnnng before MWO came along.

Trust me on that one.

[BFett]

Recently had a chat with support and I was forwarded to IGP. Has PGI lost all their support personnel as well?

[Livewyr]

I think the stated "shortcomings" of Garth were a result of that/those which was/were above him.

"Engage the community, but only those who don't want to say anything bad about PGI/MWO" (NGNG, not the player/units.)
"Oh, they didn't like our ECM implementation? Let them eat cake."
"Ghost heat is a problem? What problem?"


Assuming PGI gets a new community manager... I suspect he's going to have the same "shortcomings" as Garth. (Better known as tied hands.)

Perhaps he did leave of his own volition, which would also account for the stated twisting of truth. (No company wants to say "he didn't want to work with us anymore.")

Either which way he isn't coming back, I wish Garth the best- with some networking and a little luck, perhaps he'll find a company that will let him do his job.

[Navy Sixes]

I'm a little confused. When 3pv was in the works, wasn't it Garth that promised the community, without any authority or plan to keep his word, "No one will have to play an opponent who uses 3pv if they don't want to?" Maybe I'm wrong on that, but I thought that was how it went down. Then Paul had to post an apology when that wasn't the way 3pv was implemented.

If that's the case, when people in the community say, "PGI lied," don't they mean Garth?

I don't care either way; I guess I came into MWO too late to understand his contributions to the game and the community, and I never was as irrationally against 3pv as many were, anyway. I thank him for his part in creating a game that I love, and wish him well in whatever he does.

I just want to get the facts straight, and understand how a cornerstone of all the venom being spit at PGI is sourced from one of the most likeable members of the organization, one that many seem to want back now that he's gone.

[Livewyr]

Tycho von Gagern, on 20 February 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

I'm a little confused. When 3pv was in the works, wasn't it Garth that promised the community, without any authority or plan to keep his word, "No one will have to play an opponent who uses 3pv if they don't want to?" Maybe I'm wrong on that, but I thought that was how it went down. Then Paul had to post an apology when that wasn't the way 3pv was implemented.

If that's the case, when people in the community say, "PGI lied," don't they mean Garth?

I don't care either way; I guess I came into MWO too late to understand his contributions to the game and the community, and I never was as irrationally against 3pv as many were, anyway. I thank him for his part in creating a game that I love, and wish him well in whatever he does.

I just want to get the facts straight, and understand how a cornerstone of all the venom being spit at PGI is sourced from one of the most likeable members of the organization, one that many seem to want back now that he's gone.

There's a picture (screenshot) floating around somewhere of all the highers saying that. (Eckman, Inouye, Garth, and I think Russ too, but I'm not 100% on that last one.)

[Appogee]

BFett, on 20 February 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

Recently had a chat with support and I was forwarded to IGP. Has PGI lost all their support personnel as well?

Support had a skill set (fixing problems) no longer matching the evolving needs of the product and studio.

[BFett]

Let's see what I can find.

Bryan states that 3rd person is being worked on (no ETA for when it will be added March 21st)
http://mwomercs.com/...095-3rd-person/

Paul stating that MWO will be first person when it goes live (July 17th)
http://mwomercs.com/...is-when-needed/

First post about the 3rd person view being worked on. (Russ said this via NGNG Aug 6th)
http://mwomercs.com/...rd-person-view/

Apology from Russ saying how he was pressured into going along with 3rd person view (Aug 21st)
http://mwomercs.com/...te-and-apology/


http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2676097
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2671340

I know there is better proof out there outlining exactly what was said, I can't find it at the moment.

Edited by BFett, 20 February 2014 - 02:28 PM.

[JimboFBX]

If that's his real name I find it incredibly unprofessional that they would post something like "his skills aren't what we need" where google can pick it up and forever tarnish his reputation when he tries to find employment. Then on top of that, we have this nice forum where trolls can berate someone they don't know. They should remove the post; I wouldn't have noticed and if they left it as "Garth has moved on to other things" then nobody would be the wiser.

I'm going to guess he's not the only employee to see his position removed, just the most visible one. This game's going to be a skeleton crew in no time...

Hopefully this forum is a great example why nobody should post using their real name.

Edited by JimboFBX, 20 February 2014 - 04:52 PM.

[Chronojam]

JimboFBX, on 20 February 2014 - 04:51 PM, said:

If that's his real name I find it incredibly unprofessional that they would post something like &quot;his skills aren't what we need&quot; where google can pick it up and forever tarnish his reputation when he tries to find employment. Then on top of that, we have this nice forum where trolls can berate someone they don't know. They should remove the post; I wouldn't have noticed and if they left it as &quot;Garth has moved on to other things&quot; then nobody would be the wiser.

I'm going to guess he's not the only employee to see his position removed, just the most visible one. This game's going to be a skeleton crew in no time...

Hopefully this forum is a great example why nobody should post using their real name.

Yes, surely this would help their "doesn't communicate" stigma when somebody checks Garth's linkedin profile and sees that he is neither working for PGI nor has moved on to something else. Perhaps you ought to apply for the community management position, you seem to have what it takes.

[Appogee]

JimboFBX, on 20 February 2014 - 04:51 PM, said:

If that's his real name I find it incredibly unprofessional that they would post something like "his skills aren't what we need" where google can pick it up and forever tarnish his reputation when he tries to find employment.

I had the same reaction. It would have been more polite and professional to say ''has left the company to pursue other interests''.

[ShinVector]

Appogee, on 21 February 2014 - 12:02 AM, said:

[/size]
I had the same reaction. It would have been more polite and professional to say ''has left the company to pursue other interests''.

I don't mind the honesty since it was given though. It gave us a little bit of insight on how things work at PGI.

[PhoenixFire55]

Javen Aldaris, on 19 February 2014 - 11:33 PM, said:

Garths last interview prolly went somthing like this...

https://i.imgflip.com/70hag.jpg

So funny, and same time so sad because its probably true...

[Ozric]

It was a shock dismissal, and despite what anyone might think of Garth's work at PGI it is not something I would wish on anyone. It has happened to me, recently, and I hope he manages to pull through with as much of his life intact as possible.

That being said, the community manager had not really been the community manager for months. I remember the old days when Garth was our main link to the devs, chatting all the time, making us feel needed, but those days were long gone even before his departure. I'm not sure how much we can really blame him for this, he was just doing his job after all. He was told what to say and what not to say (and sometimes he wasn't told things he should have been told), and has been taking a large share of the negativity from the community due to his visibility. Could he of acted differently? Maybe, but maybe he would have lost his job even sooner.

The nail-in-the-coffin for poor Garth however was probably, and ironically, NGNG. I love those guys, listen to most of the podcasts and things, but in truth they are the community managers now. Maybe they have been for a while. They relate the information PGI wants to relate, review things and explain new features, welcome new players and retain old ones. I had often thought that Garth had pulled a neat trick by getting NGNG to do all the leg work for free, but now I see that he was just a victim too. They just cut out the middle man.

[Chronojam]

Ozric, on 21 February 2014 - 03:52 AM, said:

I had often thought that Garth had pulled a neat trick by getting NGNG to do all the leg work for free

PGI pulled a neat trick by getting NGNG to do a lot of leg work for cheap -- ostensibly as an unaffiliated and impartial third party -- while these paid NGNG representatives were clever enough to get their supporters to help them out for free.

[BFett]

So, do any of you think the 5 wins challenge is in response to the community upset over losing Garth? If it is in response should we be playing the game?

[FactorlanP]

BFett, on 21 February 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

So, do any of you think the 5 wins challenge is in response to the community upset over losing Garth? If it is in response should we be playing the game?

Not at all.

I think this promo is a large scale test. They now have the ability to run Achievements that reward with actual in game items, and deliver the item without having to patch the server.

Ekman talked about the Achievement system that is coming, and that it would likely reward players with C-Bills and other stuff in the lastest NGNG podcast....

Basically, this is just an Achievement test.

I like it, by the way. So, don't consider my comments as critical in any way. They are not intended that way.

On a side note... I'm not seeing much Community outrage over Garth's departure. Heck, this thread is only on page 5 after several days. If this is outrage, the normal qq threads are armageddon.

Edited by FactorlanP, 21 February 2014 - 03:04 PM.

[Kiu]

Wait...
No "Blame The Garth" anymore?
Sad day...

[Sam Slade]

Livewyr, on 19 February 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

That's an interesting opinion, Victor.

2 Questions:
1: In your opinion, what should he have been doing aside from hosting community contests and chatting with the community? (I agree that I would've liked to see more Garth-Unit contact, but I also understand why he ceased it.)

2: It wasn't Garth's job to get debriefs on what the various Dev teams have added to the game, *that* is the job of the team's coordinator/leader to give. (I.E. Paul, David, and Matt doing what they're doing in the CC)

That highlighted section really says it all. Garths position was clearly undervalued from the start as he should have been recieving clear and concise content updates from development teams before he went into any interview/press round-up. Consider how apaling inter-office communication must be at PGI... look at their mish-mash progress... look at how UI2.0 seems to be designed for an ipad and doesn't reflect feedback... they have a serious lack of accountability in communication and now that that has all come out they've done what most useless owner/opperator groups do and fire someone whose job description includes 'communication' to cover the faults of the people who are responsibe for keeping the info gears greased.

How many unread emails from Garth do these people have in their inboxs? That's the first question you ask... I'll wager the number is pretty freaking high. Garth was responsible for passing on community feedback as well I'll assume... what a shock they decided he didn't fit their direction...

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

Garth did not fit in with the future of PGI.....hmmm, so he was arguing with Russ and Bryan?