173 replies to this topic

[Corvus Antaka]

Deathlike, on 22 February 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

Normally I would agree with waiting it out, but given the way the LBX 10 works (it's middle of the road relatively speaking of LBX weaponry), the Clan LBX5 and Clan LBX20 implementations would actually be just as bad, if not worse (moreso with the LBX5 anyways). Even the current iteration of the IS UAC5 is still superior to the LBX10, so expanding on what we already know of the current mechanics won't really change the end result.

Maybe. but on the other hand, if the lbx 20 did 30 dmg inside 90m to 1 location every 4 seconds, we might see more brawlers on the field

same for multiple lbx 5 similar to normal ac5 but with spread, with that refire they could be amazing for crit seeking.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 22 February 2014 - 11:52 AM.

[Roland]

Reslin, on 22 February 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

I'm not doubting anyone and I know the "Effective" range of the LBX is well, well under 200 meters but it has been tossed around that there was a lot of testing done to show case it's effective ranges and failings. Is there a link to this thread where this was done? I'm not asking for "proof." I just enjoy seeing well done analysis.

Here is some data clearly showing the patterns and time to kill.http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/148649-ac10-vs-lbx-comparison/page__view__findpost__p__3109897

[YueFei]

Roland, on 22 February 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

Here is some data clearly showing the patterns and time to kill.http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/148649-ac10-vs-lbx-comparison/page__view__findpost__p__3109897

That video of the test shooting of 3xLBX vs 3xAC/10 was pretty sad. It shows exactly why most Light mech pilots aren't scared of LBX.

It could probably use a further tightening of the spread, so all pellets land on a Cataphract at 450 meters, in addition to an increase in damage per pellet.

[Roland]

YueFei, on 22 February 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:

That video of the test shooting of 3xLBX vs 3xAC/10 was pretty sad. It shows exactly why most Light mech pilots aren't scared of LBX.

Yeah, I play a light mech quite often, and I can say that I have never, ever been even remotely scared of an LBX mech while I'm in a light. I literally laugh at them when I see them. They are, easily, the least threatening mechs on the field to a light mech. They have virtually no ability to damage you at all, and it's trivial to keep range on them so that they are guaranteed to not be able to leverage their LBX.

YueFei, on 22 February 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:

It could probably use a further tightening of the spread, so all pellets land on a Cataphract at 450 meters, in addition to an increase in damage per pellet.

I would try upping the damage without narrowing the spread.

I think the current spread, if the pellets did a bit more damage, would actually be a good thing. It would really lead to the LBX being devastating up close, but merely functional at range, which I think would be a good niche for it.

[wanderer]

I've said before that LB-X's both need a solid-shot option and a pellet spread option that narrows as the spread hits midrange and then re-expands to it's initial one at long (and expands further as it goes from long to the end of maximum range).

That was, you can actually reasonably hit for full damage at long range with the gun, just like all other ballistics- even if that's spread across the target somewhat.

[Reslin]

Roland, on 22 February 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

Here is some data clearly showing the patterns and time to kill.http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/148649-ac10-vs-lbx-comparison/page__view__findpost__p__3109897

Thank you.

[Deathlike]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 22 February 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

Maybe. but on the other hand, if the lbx 20 did 30 dmg inside 90m to 1 location every 4 seconds, we might see more brawlers on the field

same for multiple lbx 5 similar to normal ac5 but with spread, with that refire they could be amazing for crit seeking.

Well, that's what has been requested before (and Paul is not obliging as of yet). If the damage per pellet is increased, you could at least seem to usability for brawlers. Right now, they are poor man's version of that (at, LBX is expensive, ironically).

LBX 20 doing just 20 damage (1 per pellet) is going to easily be considered DOA/useless. Increasing crit damage is irrelevant.. it is all about doing reasonable damage per pellet in each regional section of armor you are trying to hit (essentially, the no-heat version of the SRM).

Although, I've been chain firing SRMs, and they seem to only effective in this manner. Still far superior to LBX unfortunately.

[Trauglodyte]

Personally, I say that you take the base value of the LB, whatever one you're looking at, and doubling the damage at 0m. From there, you apply the damage falloff throughout the range until it reaches it's max. That would be the LB 10-X at 20 damage at 0m, 10 damage at 450m, 5 damage at 900m, and 0 damage at 1350. If you do this, you're treating the LB like a typical shot gun as all shots lose velocity due to spread from the jump unlike solid rounds that are rifled. That and the spread is the down side of a shot gun.

[Deathlike]

Trauglodyte, on 22 February 2014 - 02:33 PM, said:

Personally, I say that you take the base value of the LB, whatever one you're looking at, and doubling the damage at 0m. From there, you apply the damage falloff throughout the range until it reaches it's max. That would be the LB 10-X at 20 damage at 0m, 10 damage at 450m, 5 damage at 900m, and 0 damage at 1350. If you do this, you're treating the LB like a typical shot gun as all shots lose velocity due to spread from the jump unlike solid rounds that are rifled. That and the spread is the down side of a shot gun.

Well, you can do a cheap and dirty way and simply manipulate the numbers in the LBX data to accomplish this.

For the LBX10, simply set the "optimal range" to 270, max range is 540. Bump the actual damage of the LBX 10 per pellet to 1.4 or so. Bam, done. Instant classic brawler weapon. The spread may have to be tweaked, but it's that simple. Magic.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Do not use LB10XAC on any of my mechs presently, not really a good weapon vs. the weight it takes to use.

And where is the different ammo types that should be available...?
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/LB_10-X_AC

"LB-X Autocannons are able to use either the special cluster rounds or standard autocannon rounds. The LB 10-X Autocannon, having a higher caliber, causes higher damage than lower-caliber autocannons, though it is limited to medium ranges."

[Trauglodyte]

Quote

Well, you can do a cheap and dirty way and simply manipulate the numbers in the LBX data to accomplish this.

For the LBX10, simply set the "optimal range" to 270, max range is 540. Bump the actual damage of the LBX 10 per pellet to 1.4 or so. Bam, done. Instant classic brawler weapon. The spread may have to be tweaked, but it's that simple. Magic.

Do you apply that range to all LBs or just the 10? Personally I'm ok with it being applied to all LBs. If you're firing a spread, it should be crazy short.

[Deathlike]

Trauglodyte, on 22 February 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

Do you apply that range to all LBs or just the 10? Personally I'm ok with it being applied to all LBs. If you're firing a spread, it should be crazy short.

Well, you'd have to readjust the range for the appropriate LBX versions of course (although, the Clan LBX2 already sounds like a bad idea). For the Clan LBX20, it could be like an optimal range of 180 with a max range of 360. Clan LBX5 would have an optimal range of 360, with a max range of 720. I cannot imagine the Clan LBX2 though (because, 2 pellets kinda looks silly... perhaps 4 or something like that with half the damage per pellet)... range would be something like 450/500 with 900/1000 max?

Whatever... the range will scale appropriately with the size of the the weapon.

[Osric Lancaster]

Gevurah, on 22 February 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

If you don't like that, stick with your meta-boats.

Don't tell anyone, but I really enjoy putting an LRM in the NARC arm of my raven. Shhh,
. . .

I get what you are saying, but yeah. . . what Roland said.

Edited by Osric Lancaster, 22 February 2014 - 06:26 PM.

[GMAK]

LB10 should be call lb20 and cost the same. LB10 is useless and powerless.