77 replies to this topic

[Farpenoodle]

Infernus1986, on 21 February 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

"TIME ZONES" "DEEP ROOTED CRYENGINE ERRORS"
You guys are full of crap and you know it, stop lying to the people that keep your doors open.
I have asked other developers about this, these issues do not exist anywhere but at PGI.
There are no deep rooted cryengine errors only deep rooted developer ineptitude.

Instead of filling your reply's with nonsense why don't you tell use exactly what these issues are and your plans to remedy them.

Who are these "developers"? The only one I've seen so far claim something like this is that one guy who looked at the CrySDK documentation and was suddenly an "expert" and suddenly knew "exactly what was wrong" with the way PGI was doing things. Let's not forget that 4chan was the source of that popular rumour that "PGI CAN'T DO PIP BECAUSE THEY ARE INCOMPETENT I KNOW BECAUSE EVERY SCOPE IN CRYSIS IS A PIP" thing and shilled the ****** out of it. When in reality anybody who knows anything about graphics knows that PGI was already using the exact same technique to render PIP as the scopes in Crysis. And they still are. They just came up with a workaround that looks okay.

[Infernus1986]

Farpenoodle, on 21 February 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

Who are these "developers"? The only one I've seen so far claim something like this is that one guy who looked at the CrySDK documentation and was suddenly an "expert" and suddenly knew "exactly what was wrong" with the way PGI was doing things. Let's not forget that 4chan was the source of that popular rumour that "PGI CAN'T DO PIP BECAUSE THEY ARE INCOMPETENT I KNOW BECAUSE EVERY SCOPE IN CRYSIS IS A PIP" thing and shilled the ****** out of it. When in reality anybody who knows anything about graphics knows that PGI was already using the exact same technique to render PIP as the scopes in Crysis. And they still are. They just came up with a workaround that looks okay.

Who are these other developers that constantly blame there development issues on the Cryengine ?
Crytek does not release a broken engine, what we have here is a group of people using a tool wrong and then blaming the tool for the problem.

The pip thing was a stupid argument to begin with argued by one crazy swede which I did not agree with.

Edited by Infernus1986, 21 February 2014 - 02:52 PM.

[Farpenoodle]

Infernus1986, on 21 February 2014 - 02:51 PM, said:

Who are these other developers that constantly blame there development issues on the Cryengine ?
Crytek does not release a broken engine, what we have here is a group of people using a tool wrong and then blaming the tool for the problem.

The pip thing was a stupid argument to begin with argued by one crazy swede which I did not agree with.

How many CryEngine games have had as many modifications made to it to support it's gameplay as MWO? The only one I can think of is Star Citizen. And I expect that game will have as many problems coming out into DFM as MWO. Which is fine. Because CryEngine was not designed for these kinds of games and the developers are going to have to work through them. Coming up with BS reasons as to why they're failing to do it fast enough doesn't help anything.

Edited by Farpenoodle, 21 February 2014 - 03:03 PM.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Thank you, Peiper, once again. These summaries help alot! I am going to listen the whole podcast, but might not have the time to do so for couple of days, or even for a week. Your effort is much appreciated! Cheers!

[Heffay]

Peiper, on 21 February 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

Next time, try a more civil, polite approach and you MIGHT get a civil, polite answer.

I don't think he's looking for a civil, polite answer.

[Belorion]

Simply adding a "Smurfy Layout" isn't going to fix the Mechlab. Right now I give the mechlab a D- if they add the aforementioned layout that will come up to a D+

Still a lot needed before a A.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Belorion, on 21 February 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

Simply adding a "Smurfy Layout" isn't going to fix the Mechlab. Right now I give the mechlab a D- if they add the aforementioned layout that will come up to a D+

Still a lot needed before a A.

Yes it is. I didn't build spaceships on EVE online with the game client. I used EFT and just clicked the build to EVE. Same thing with MWO, I use LSML and just click the builds to MWO client. Smurfys like layout will improve this by 1000% and that for me is A for a game client - simple way to make builds. It is not efficient for a client to give you ALL the information you need, because it lacks the proper utilization of that info, unlike an external mechlab tool that is dedicated to that purpose.

[Tekadept]

Matthew Craig, on 21 February 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

[/size]
Not really we initially had CryTek engineers out on site for training purposes and we have ongoing support from them. The simple fact of life that alters our relationship with CryTek is the time zone difference from Germany to Vancouver. Often times it is faster for us to simply dig into the code than to wait for support ticket responses, this is something CryTek are working to address for their international partners with more global support offices.

It's Disappointing to hear that crytek lie about providing

Crytek said:

local support in all major territories worldwide

[Infernus1986]

Tekadept, on 21 February 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

It's Disappointing to hear that crytek lie about providing

Surely I'm just making things up and that post was not the usual find an excuse for shortcomings by shifting the blame that we have heard many times before.

Next I'm sure we will hear that they have to deal with HQ in Germany because the people that work for crytek in the USA have less knowledge about the cryengine than PGI.
Which is why they opt to fix the problems themselves instead of waiting on crytek.

Edited by Infernus1986, 21 February 2014 - 05:35 PM.

[Roadbeer]

Infernus1986, on 21 February 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

You do notice that the NA pin is around Chicago and not on the West Coast, or ANYWHERE in Canada, right?
It must be exhausting to constantly try to find lies in every PGI statement.

[Heffay]

Roadbeer, on 21 February 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

You do notice that the NA pin is around Chicago and not on the West Coast, or ANYWHERE in Canada, right?
It must be exhausting to constantly try to find lies in every PGI statement.

Chicago is practically next door to BC! Can't be more than a 20 minute train ride, right? Right?

(Maybe this is where we discuss different tiers of support, and how different locations are geared to different tiers, based on available talent. Or do you think that is too much to handle right now?)

[Tekadept]

Heffay, on 21 February 2014 - 05:42 PM, said:

Chicago is practically next door to BC! Can't be more than a 20 minute train ride, right? Right?

Is it in the same timezone so you don't have to deal with Germany?

[Roadbeer]

Heffay, on 21 February 2014 - 05:42 PM, said:

Chicago is practically next door to BC! Can't be more than a 20 minute train ride, right? Right?

(Maybe this is where we discuss different tiers of support, and how different locations are geared to different tiers, based on available talent. Or do you think that is too much to handle right now?)

It's less than an inch on that map, so it's gotta be close amirite?

I've found it next to useless to have a conversation with the Alex Jones types. Because even when they're dead wrong, you're still a shill. Best to just mock them and move on.

[Infernus1986]

Roadbeer, on 21 February 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

You do notice that the NA pin is around Chicago and not on the West Coast, or ANYWHERE in Canada, right?
It must be exhausting to constantly try to find lies in every PGI statement.

0/10 you can do better
something like
CIG is poaching all the good cryengine engineers so PGI has to wait 30-90 days for a response

[Roadbeer]

Infernus1986, on 21 February 2014 - 05:48 PM, said:

0/10 you can do better
something like
CIG is poaching all the good cryengine engineers so PGI has to wait 30-90 days for a response

Nah brah,
PGI can meet a deadline, CIG not so much.

Edited by Roadbeer, 21 February 2014 - 05:50 PM.

[Infernus1986]

Heffay, on 21 February 2014 - 05:42 PM, said:

Chicago is practically next door to BC! Can't be more than a 20 minute train ride, right? Right?

(Maybe this is where we discuss different tiers of support, and how different locations are geared to different tiers, based on available talent. Or do you think that is too much to handle right now?)

Yes because I'm sure Crytek a multi milion dollar company would open up a support office in the USA without trained personnel, so their clients could continue to complain about having to deal with support in Germany.

Roadbeer, on 21 February 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

Nah brah,
PGI can meet a deadline, CIG not so much.

Is it 2015 already ?
thanks i needed a good laugh

Edited by Infernus1986, 21 February 2014 - 05:55 PM.

[Heffay]

Infernus1986, on 21 February 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

Yes because I'm sure Crytek a multi milion dollar company would open up a support office in the USA without trained personnel, so their clients could continue to complain about having to deal with support in Germany.

See? I knew we couldn't discuss service level centers. Maybe you should go ask a developer?

[Alex Warden]

how about the simple fact that we all know sh++ about what is going on behind CryTek´s doors and/ or the relations between CT support and their "customers"? i personally don´t dare to make a statement about how those relations work.. and even the fact that CT MIGHT have a support center next to canada, does that automatically mean that this center is one that can provide PGI with the help they need? (i got some insight to customer support companies, but still i couldn´t provide more than assumptions in this case)

i don´t know, and neither does anyone of us players around... so why the F can´t we just accept what Matthew just told us and move along?

i can, and i will.. gb, gnight

btw, thanks Mr. Craig for stepping into the pit again and facing the wolves
and before i forget it: thanks to the OP for the transcript and all the work to get your false rumors straight... looking forward to part 2

Edited by Alex Warden, 21 February 2014 - 07:32 PM.

[Hexenhammer]

Infernus1986, on 21 February 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

Surely I'm just making things up and that post was not the usual find an excuse for shortcomings by shifting the blame that we have heard many times before.

Next I'm sure we will hear that they have to deal with HQ in Germany because the people that work for crytek in the USA have less knowledge about the cryengine than PGI.
Which is why they opt to fix the problems themselves instead of waiting on crytek.

Okay. You're angry. We get it. Death to PGI. Enjoy your Hate Cake.

For me I understand what the Matt Craig is getting at. I've worked help desk for a fortune 500 company. I deal with SAP day in day out and I know what its like to deal with Germany to get fixes done. Because when we call them up for help its no easy fix.

And its no surprise that PGI is running several versions behind the current CryEngine. My company makes bank and its 2-3 versions behind current SAP, and south of the border our facilities are 8-10 years behind current SAP.

Edited by Hexenhammer, 22 February 2014 - 12:28 PM.

[Tice Daurus]

Quote

Not really we initially had CryTek engineers out on site for training purposes and we have ongoing support from them. The simple fact of life that alters our relationship with CryTek is the time zone difference from Germany to Vancouver. Often times it is faster for us to simply dig into the code than to wait for support ticket responses, this is something CryTek are working to address for their international partners with more global support offices.

When it comes to working closely along side them for certain systems this again is significantly hampered by the time difference so collaborating with their team is not as straight forward for us meaning that often the choice we make that may be different for some other team is to take ownership of systems ourselves and drive them forwards internally.

Also sometimes the reality is just that we're not on the same release schedule, CryTek determine their own release schedule and it doesn't always match up with what we want to do and our goals for MWO a good example is we knew 3.5 would have better DX11 support but didn't have a solid time frame (Soon^TM) on it so made the decision to go with 3.4 and fix up the DX11 support so that we can progress and get our users DX11 support (which is now entering final test for release on March 4th).

I'm sorry, but I have a problem with this statement from Matt here.

First off, while you state that you bought the rights to the engine and had support from the start, albeit limited, Crytek has offices in Chicago Austin with staff to troubleshoot problems in NA, located in Chicago Austin Texas. You guys are located in Vancouver. Chicago Austin is in a CST time zone and you guys are PST time zone, a 2 hour difference. So how is this Crytek's fault when you are contacting Germany for support? Because of your limited contract that you have to contact the German office and you cannot reach out to the NA/Chicago Austin office for support?

Also per Sean's initial post, this contradicts his earlier post in which states PGI "hadn't worked with Crytek or Scaleform technologies". This contradicts your post Matt. So who are we to believe? What are we to believe? And how can we believe PGI's words when you have in the past said "That was our position at the time, and now this is..."

I'm sorry but Sean's statement and your statements do not add up as correct. In order to clarify this, I'm inviting you to come back here and further clarify your statements and as to why you are not using Crytek's NA division offices and only using the offices in Germany. Is it due to your supposed limited support contract you're now saying you had initially from the start? Because again of the conflicting back and forth here, this does not make sense.

EDIT: I would like to apologize for incorrectly not following up on a previous posters information as I was informed earlier that Crytek had offices in Chicago, and that is incorrect. Crytek opened offices in NA/Austin in January 2013 which I did not know of this information. I wish to apologize for this incorrect info. However my questions still stand and I would like to have PGI please come back and answer if they would to further correct and or clarify what they have said so we can get the truth.

Edited by Tice Daurus, 23 February 2014 - 10:00 AM.