77 replies to this topic

[Heffay]

Tice Daurus, on 24 February 2014 - 05:41 AM, said:

I'm sorry, but for Roodbeer, Hex, Heffay, thank you for re-establishing my point that I'm trying to ask some questions and trying to get some answers and your toxicity here in constantly attacking me is just establishing my point of you white-knighting MW:O and why these forums are indeed too toxic to be here.

Your initial posts into this whole topic started with "PGI is lying, and this is the evidence." That's not you asking questions. That is you attacking PGI, starting rumors, etc.

And you keep talking about a "limited" support contract. Where do you get this "limited" part? Are you making that up as well?

[Corvus Antaka]

Tice Daurus, on 22 February 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

Don't put words in my mouth Heffay. What I am exactly saying is this...PGI's words are suspect and they owe us, their customers who PAID into their game the whole truth. They've 'changed their position' in the past more than once.

We're not going to add coolant shots. (Coolant shots were added and incorrectly per BattleTech rules, because PGI feels they don't need to stick to or adhere to them)
This will always be a 1PV game. (They later changed that and now the game has 3pv)
We're not going to mix 3rd person and 1st person queues together. (3PV/1PV mixed together)

Now, it's from Sean's post that they didn't have Crytek or Scaleform support. Now Matt says different. I'm sorry, but I'm no trying to be antagonistic, I am asking, politely for full disclosure and clarification. If I've spent my hard earned money into product, like a car, if they car company maker lies, for example, take Kia. They got caught lying that their cars from 2011-2013 were meeting US government official standards in certain cases of 40 MPG or better when in fact they lied and they got caught and had to pay back the customers for lost monies from inaccurately and falsely stating otherwise. When a company or corporation lies to sell a product that is considered false, misleading, or even fraudulent.

Now I'm not saying that is the case here with PGI. I honestly do not know WHAT to believe anymore which is why I am offering PGI to come here and clarify and explain further so there is no confusion whatsoever.

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.

And like the famous song of the Who says "We won't get fooled again...nono noooooo...."

I hope you never vote, because if PGI's actions upset you, politicians must make you crazy

[Motroid]

I can understand the feeling of mistrust being fed by PGI.
Their communication is/was very poor. Downtrotting those who have questions is not a really good idea either.
Decisions have been made - money has been collected. Decisions have been revoked. Not just once.
I don't care about 3PV and coolshots but what I care about is being misled several times. It's not that every company out there is honest and righteous. In fact most of them are not - because otherwise they get eaten by the ones lying in their favour.
Just look at the very important promise of EU servers after release. Release passed by and not a single word from PGI concerning the EU servers that were promised. This is a fairly big deal for me and the point where I started to mistrust PGI.
Edit:Grammar

Edited by Motroid, 24 February 2014 - 11:31 AM.

[mekabuser]

Roadbeer, on 21 February 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

Nah brah, PGI can meet a deadline, CIG not so much.

eh.? wut?
perhaps the most insane post ive read on these forums since they were brought online.


mechlab 2.0 is a nightmare.. period.. I mean 1.5 wasnt great either. I basically did all mech crafting in smurfys and then copied to 1.5/
2.0 is such... a freakin mess I am NOT buying any mechs. I explored the idea for a minute today and i thought I would throw up with the tidal wave of counter intuitive nonsense that is the mechlab of ui2.0.

I am not exaggerating. or being a troll or whatnot. Its just that bad. I spent the whole time going. "where is this, where is that? what do i have here? i mean its ludicrous.

[mekabuser]

Motroid, on 24 February 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

I can understand the feeling of mistrust being fed by PGI.
Their communication is/was very poor. Downtrotting those who have questions is not a really good idea either.
Decisions have been made - money has been collected. Decisions have been revoked. Not just once.
I don't care about 3PV and coolshots but what I care about is being misled several times. It's not that every company out there is honest and righteous. In fact most of them are not - because otherwise they get eaten by the ones lying in their favour.
Just look at the very important promise of EU servers after release. Release passed by and not a single word from PGI concerning the EU servers that were promised. This is a fairly big deal for me and the point where I started to mistrust PGI.
Edit:Grammar

considering that in CB at least, i believe it was a majority of players are from outside the USA and NA.. I know, its something that is VERY difficult for USA centric "people" to wrap their heads around, but yeah, that whole regional server thing has gone right out the window.

[Dymlos2003]

mekabuser, on 24 February 2014 - 08:47 PM, said:

eh.? wut?
perhaps the most insane post ive read on these forums since they were brought online.


mechlab 2.0 is a nightmare.. period.. I mean 1.5 wasnt great either. I basically did all mech crafting in smurfys and then copied to 1.5/
2.0 is such... a freakin mess I am NOT buying any mechs. I explored the idea for a minute today and i thought I would throw up with the tidal wave of counter intuitive nonsense that is the mechlab of ui2.0.

I am not exaggerating. or being a troll or whatnot. Its just that bad. I spent the whole time going. "where is this, where is that? what do i have here? i mean its ludicrous.

If you were lost then I dunno what to say, learn to read?

[Hexenhammer]

Tice Daurus, on 22 February 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

Don't put words in my mouth Heffay. What I am exactly saying is this...PGI's words are suspect and they owe us, their customers who PAID into their game the whole truth. They've 'changed their position' in the past more than once.

We're not going to add coolant shots. (Coolant shots were added and incorrectly per BattleTech rules, because PGI feels they don't need to stick to or adhere to them)
This will always be a 1PV game. (They later changed that and now the game has 3pv)
We're not going to mix 3rd person and 1st person queues together. (3PV/1PV mixed together)

Now, it's from Sean's post that they didn't have Crytek or Scaleform support. Now Matt says different. I'm sorry, but I'm no trying to be antagonistic, I am asking, politely for full disclosure and clarification. If I've spent my hard earned money into product, like a car, if they car company maker lies, for example, take Kia. They got caught lying that their cars from 2011-2013 were meeting US government official standards in certain cases of 40 MPG or better when in fact they lied and they got caught and had to pay back the customers for lost monies from inaccurately and falsely stating otherwise. When a company or corporation lies to sell a product that is considered false, misleading, or even fraudulent.

Now I'm not saying that is the case here with PGI. I honestly do not know WHAT to believe anymore which is why I am offering PGI to come here and clarify and explain further so there is no confusion whatsoever.

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.

And like the famous song of the Who says "We won't get fooled again...nono noooooo...."

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 24 February 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:

I hope you never vote, because if PGI's actions upset you, politicians must make you crazy

Or have kids as smart as their dad. If he does they'll call him out as a liar when circumstances change and it wont matter if it's for a legitimate reason or not.

Sorry kids we can't go swimming today it's raining.
Daddy's a liar. He promised we could go swimming today and now he says we can't.


edited for grammar

Edited by Hexenhammer, 25 February 2014 - 08:10 AM.

[Kyle Wright]

IM SORRY BUT YOU GUYS ARE DESTROYING BATTLETECH. Whats the point of 4-man lances for the innersphere if you will shoe horn us into running 3,3,3,3.

Just put tonnage limits in

[Ryoken]

Kyle Wright, on 25 February 2014 - 07:34 PM, said:

IM SORRY BUT YOU GUYS ARE DESTROYING BATTLETECH. Whats the point of 4-man lances for the innersphere if you will shoe horn us into running 3,3,3,3.

Just put tonnage limits in

There still will be 1-4mans according to a twitter by russ. Even assault lances do sport some heavy mechs. Or light lances have medium mechs in them. So by lore even running 3,3,3,3 will alow us to form all those lances.

Tonnage limits will just result in Highlanders and Firestarters only.

[RG Notch]

Hexenhammer, on 24 February 2014 - 10:26 PM, said:

Or have kids as smart as their dad. If he does they'll call him out as a liar when circumstances change and it wont matter if it's for a legitimate reason or not.

Sorry kids we can't go swimming today it's raining.
Daddy's a liar. He promised we could go swimming today and now he says we can't.


edited for grammar

Yes saying you were working on CW , while actually not because you were worried you would lose your license is certainly unforeseen circumstances beyond their control. I mean it's not lying to say you would work on CW but it's not worth the effort if you lose your license.
If you think it's fine to not work on CW while you use it to sell packages until you lock up your license, then ok. That's lying. They said CW 90 days after OB while selling Founder packs, they said 6 months from launch when selling Phoenix packs, then they said oh now we got our license, we will actually work on CW and it will be out 6 months from when they started selling Clan packs. That's lying. You can dispute the other times they changed "their position" at the time. Nothing will convince me they lied every time about CW. Not underestimated time, not had unforeseen things delay it. That works for some of their other over promising, but I'm sorry they straight out lied about the work on CW to sell things until they sold enough for MS to renew their license. All the blather before was just that same slide show they had since they pitched this project. They spent no time on CW until they had the license sewn up.
Maybe that was a good idea, since who would sign up and more importantly pay up for this much time with no endgame? So while it may have gotten them enough cash and players to justify MS renewing their license, it's still BS and I have a low tolerance for it. Other people clearly don't mind being lied to their face as long as they have a MW/BT game. They will make excuses and what not to defend the decision. Whatever, they lost any benefit of the doubt from me when they finally admitted the real thing holding CW back was their license running out.
They can earn that back delivering on their promises, but I can't just forget that and put trust in them. They got money out of me and I don't regret it. I got my money's worth. But I won't put another dime in until they do more than hit one deadline with an incomplete UI improvement. They made strides with the Centurion give away and their incremental improvements. But it's a long road of over promising and under delivering they have to travel to get back to even.

[Tice Daurus]

Heffay, on 24 February 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

Your initial posts into this whole topic started with "PGI is lying, and this is the evidence." That's not you asking questions. That is you attacking PGI, starting rumors, etc.

And you keep talking about a "limited" support contract. Where do you get this "limited" part? Are you making that up as well?

No that's me stating my observations and asking them to clarify their position. The developers are big enough people to defend themselves and if they want to come here and correct me, I'm willing to listen to what they have to say, however because they have constantly changed their position, changed deadlines, and changed the core values of this game from being a 1PV shooter to a mixed 1PV/3PV shooter, it's hard for me to take anything they say at face value.

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 24 February 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:

I hope you never vote, because if PGI's actions upset you, politicians must make you crazy

No I don't stress it. If politicians don't live up to what they run for on their values/campaign promises, I remember what they said and how they vote, and then the next election term vote for the best candidate possible. I don't vote on party lines.

Hexenhammer, on 24 February 2014 - 10:26 PM, said:

Or have kids as smart as their dad. If he does they'll call him out as a liar when circumstances change and it wont matter if it's for a legitimate reason or not.

Sorry kids we can't go swimming today it's raining.
Daddy's a liar. He promised we could go swimming today and now he says we can't.

Promising your kids one thing like your example is completely different than a company that you paid into for a product and they've pull a bait and switch or give you an inferior product. I don't see how you can compare the two here, nor should you be.

Edited by Tice Daurus, 26 February 2014 - 05:29 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

Tice Daurus, on 26 February 2014 - 05:28 PM, said:

No I don't stress it. If politicians don't live up to what they run for on their values/campaign promises, I remember what they said and how they vote, and then the next election term vote for the best candidate possible. I don't vote on party lines.

Not like who you vote for actually matters these days

[Illuzian Pryde]

PGI has a record of bad PR/Community Management.

Obviously there have been changes made recently to improve that specifically:

• Dismissals
  
• Video Blogs
  
• Lengthy interviews
  
• Providing accurate release dates
  
• Making changes/responding based on community feedback(al la carte)

You could easily read into thing which you have real experience or understanding with and don your tin fedora hat, leave the community because you're fed up or you could accept that they're trying, enjoy the game and move on with your life.

[RG Notch]

illuzian, on 26 February 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

PGI has a record of bad PR/Community Management.

Obviously there have been changes made recently to improve that specifically:

• Dismissals
  
• Video Blogs
  
• Lengthy interviews
  
• Providing accurate release dates
  
• Making changes/responding based on community feedback(al la carte)

You could easily read into thing which you have real experience or understanding with and don your tin fedora hat, leave the community because you're fed up or you could accept that they're trying, enjoy the game and move on with your life.

I think the scariest thought is that they are trying hard and this is the best they can manage.

[Tice Daurus]

illuzian, on 26 February 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

PGI has a record of bad PR/Community Management.

Obviously there have been changes made recently to improve that specifically:

• Dismissals
  
• Video Blogs
  
• Lengthy interviews
  
• Providing accurate release dates
  
• Making changes/responding based on community feedback(al la carte)

You could easily read into thing which you have real experience or understanding with and don your tin fedora hat, leave the community because you're fed up or you could accept that they're trying, enjoy the game and move on with your life.

And don't think for a second that I don't appreciate that those are all steps in the right direction. However, for a lot of what they are doing now...it's panic mode stuff. And right now...it's still talk. I want to see continual improvements in the UI 2.0, going up to 2.1 based from our suggestions to help further fix the UI 2.0.
I want to see them stick to updated deadlines going forward. If they say X is going to be released on March 15th, X better come out, no more excuses. And that needs to stay that way for a while.
I want to see what was promised to us in core values released...CW, knockdowns/collisions, DX11, some destructible environments, better weapon and heat balancing, MASC (everyone remember MASC? The Flea supposed to have it? The Locust?), water physics slowing you down when you enter water to where running is walking speeds, these are all things that were PROMISED to us to be released by game release or 90 days after game release. It's now approx. 5 months after. I can understand delays due to the problems to CryEngine, but these are the guys that are supposed to be top-quality developers who are supposed to know this stuff, right? And if they don't know it, they should be tapping Crytek for the info.

So for me...while I see some minor improvements and communication is good, PGI needs to start ramping into overdrive here and soon. But just because I'm critical and want to ask questions, doesn't mean I have to "love it or leave it." And someone needs to be here to ask questions and keep PGI on their toes so they hold up their end of the bargain here.

Edited by Tice Daurus, 26 February 2014 - 07:42 PM.

[Tekadept]

Tice Daurus, on 26 February 2014 - 07:41 PM, said:

But just because I'm critical and want to ask questions, doesn't mean I have to "love it or leave it." And someone needs to be here to ask questions and keep PGI on their toes so they hold up their end of the bargain here.

But that's not how the White Knights see it

[Roadbeer]

Tekadept, on 27 February 2014 - 03:06 AM, said:

But that's not how the White Knights see it

And the neckbeards think that
"OMG, THIS SUXXORS, PGI NEEDS TO DIAF!!@%#@%5235"
Is constructive criticism.

[Tekadept]

Roadbeer, on 27 February 2014 - 07:03 AM, said:

And the neckbeards think that
"OMG, THIS SUXXORS, PGI NEEDS TO DIAF!!@%#@%5235"
Is constructive criticism.

Kinda like dis?



That's Really both sides of the equation it seems hrmm.

Edited by Tekadept, 27 February 2014 - 07:12 AM.